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Old 25th May 2010, 16:18   #421
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Originally Posted by bblost View Post
Maybe for a user who will only encounter bad roads with gradient the 2wd makes sense.
Very true. With appropriate tyres it will do a lot of stuff offroad.
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Old 25th May 2010, 17:00   #422
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Originally Posted by Animesh View Post
I am one of those sedan drivers who now want a real machine now. I want to know which category does Thar 4WD fall into:

Part-Time 4WD - Refers to a four-wheel drive system that operates on-demand and drives all four wheels by locking front and rear axles together via a shift lever. It usually includes two speed ranges (Hi and Lo). Part-time 4WD systems must be operated in 2WD mode on dry pavement, as they're designed to be used only in specific situations when extra traction is required.

Full-Time 4WD - Describes a four-wheel-drive system that can be operated continuously on all surfaces. A full-time four-wheel-drive system may include the option of part-time operation (allowing you to shift into 2WD on dry pavement for example), and may or may not have Hi and Lo speed ranges.

Automatic Four-Wheel Drive (A4WD) - This type of drive system automatically engages 4WD as needed. When internal monitors sense differences in individual wheel speeds, indicating that a tire is slipping, then 4WD is automatically engaged.
Sir, THAR hopefully will come in a 6-7 Lakh category is only a Part Time 4WD .

Full Time 4WD or AWD come sin the following vehicles: Mitsubishi Outlander, Chevy Captiva, Honda CRV, Toyota Fortuner,

I'm not sure whether we have automatic 4WD available in the country. Mitsu Evo & Subaru Impreza IIRC fall in this category. Oh Yes certain variants of Lambo & 911 also
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Old 25th May 2010, 17:06   #423
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What do you mean by automatic 4WD, Milecruncher?
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Old 25th May 2010, 17:27   #424
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What do you mean by automatic 4WD, Milecruncher?
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Originally Posted by Animesh View Post

Automatic Four-Wheel Drive (A4WD) - This type of drive system automatically engages 4WD as needed. When internal monitors sense differences in individual wheel speeds, indicating that a tire is slipping, then 4WD is automatically engaged.
This is what I meant.

Quote:
Automatic 4WD is a full-time system that lets the vehicle operate in 2WD (either front or rear) until the system judges that 4WD or AWD is needed. It then automatically routes power to all four wheels, varying the ratio between front and rear axles as necessary. Usually a slipping wheel activates the system, however, some of the more sophisticated systems use software that switches the system to 4WD or AWD during specific driving conditions -- BEFORE a wheel begins to slip.
These types of drive trains generally use Viscous Coupling
Source: Types of 4WD Systems - When To Use 4WD Off Road - What Does 4WD Mean
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Old 25th May 2010, 21:40   #425
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Can someone tell me what are the differences between the 2WD and the 4WD versions of the Thar?

If its just the 4WD, then we're talking at most a 20k difference.

Do you really think that someone will pay 20k less and take a Thar without the 4WD? Do you think the kind of people who buy the Thar will gripe about 20k?

So, why is everyone going on about 2WD and 4WD? The THAR will just come 4WD and freewheeling hubs as standard. You dont want 4WD, keep it disengaged.

I agree about 2WD sales only if we're talking about electronic TC where the price difference is about close to a 100,000 rupees across manufacturers. Thats an amount anyone will reconsider.

However, most manufacturers use 4WD as a ploy and force customers to pay top dollar for stuff they really dont need or want and thus get their hands on a 4WD. In the case of the Thar, it does seem unlikely - considering there's nothing more you can put on that jeep apart from an AC or a hard-top, both of which anyone will choose gladly as a need.

So my question to DKG and the others: What the heck are you guys going on about 2WD to drive sales when there's probably just a 20k difference between the models for the manual TC? Are you saying something that costs 6.3L will be a volume player, but the same product priced at 6.5L (due to 4WD) wont?

Or are you saying 4WD will scare away non-enthusiasts?

Or are you saying M&M will play a game on us and price the 4WD at a stratospheric level and then give a bunch of features like follow me home headlamps and rain sensing wipers (thus justifying the price) which we definitely dont need?
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Old 25th May 2010, 21:48   #426
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Originally Posted by Red Liner View Post
Or are you saying M&M will play a game on us and price the 4WD at a stratospheric level and then give a bunch of features like follow me home headlamps and rain sensing wipers (thus justifying the price) which we definitely dont need?
THAR with follow me home head lights, keyless entrym auto head lights and wipers, TPMS, Blue Lights et al


Someone please tell me the above is not true
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Old 26th May 2010, 06:53   #427
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Wish we could just ask for push start, which is the next thing thats soon catching up ;-)
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Old 26th May 2010, 07:11   #428
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^^According to me, its a different category, I dont think we will see all of these in Thar! - Focus will be 70% off-road -- 30% on-road. I'll be happy to see if they give safety features like ABS, forget about airbags and other gadget type stuff. (I'm saying that based on the approx price tag we are expecting).
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Old 26th May 2010, 08:19   #429
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Liner View Post
If its just the 4WD, then we're talking at most a 20k difference.
Do you really think that someone will pay 20k less and take a Thar without the 4WD? Do you think the kind of people who buy the Thar will gripe about 20k?
Hi Red Liner,
The difference will be somewhere around a lakh between a 4X4 and a 4X2, and not 20k. One of the most expensive component is a 4X4 front differential in a vehicle.
Regards,
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Old 26th May 2010, 09:01   #430
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Originally Posted by Ketan View Post
^^According to me, its a different category, I dont think we will see all of these in Thar! - Focus will be 70% off-road -- 30% on-road. I'll be happy to see if they give safety features like ABS, forget about airbags and other gadget type stuff. (I'm saying that based on the approx price tag we are expecting).
I thought it is other way, 70% on road and 30 % off road. This is what I am looking for. In fact most of the people requirements as I understand from this thread is that they are going to use it in for city driving and occasional long drives and some off roading. This is exactly my requirement.
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Old 26th May 2010, 09:22   #431
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Originally Posted by jp1 View Post
I thought it is other way, 70% on road and 30 % off road. This is what I am looking for. In fact most of the people requirements as I understand from this thread is that they are going to use it in for city driving and occasional long drives and some off roading. This is exactly my requirement.

Sir, if it is 70% onroad and 30% offroad, then the THAR does not need a 4wd at all

From what our experts say, the THAR will do most in 2WD

Also, wonder why it should be released in a 540 shell then? It will also compete with its own siblings!!
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Old 26th May 2010, 09:36   #432
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fazalaliadil View Post
Hi Red Liner,
The difference will be somewhere around a lakh between a 4X4 and a 4X2, and not 20k. One of the most expensive component is a 4X4 front differential in a vehicle.
Regards,
I think Red Liner is thinking in terms of solid axle differential, which probably costs 20K. This is IFS based differential.
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Old 26th May 2010, 09:47   #433
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fazalaliadil View Post
Hi Red Liner,
The difference will be somewhere around a lakh between a 4X4 and a 4X2, and not 20k. One of the most expensive component is a 4X4 front differential in a vehicle.
Regards,
Fazal Saab, the difference in Scorpio is about 80k and that too with a Borg Warner Shift on the fly TC. With a manual I'm definitely sure it will be lot lesser.
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Old 26th May 2010, 09:56   #434
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Originally Posted by Red Liner View Post

So my question to DKG and the others: What the heck are you guys going on about 2WD to drive sales when there's probably just a 20k difference between the models for the manual TC? Are you saying something that costs 6.3L will be a volume player, but the same product priced at 6.5L (due to 4WD) wont?

Or are you saying 4WD will scare away non-enthusiasts?

Or are you saying M&M will play a game on us and price the 4WD at a stratospheric level and then give a bunch of features like follow me home headlamps and rain sensing wipers (thus justifying the price) which we definitely dont need?
Redliner,
All i can say is only one thing, we are trying to price THAR very competitvely and is going to be absolutely reasonable. 4wd will be an essential component of THAR. It is the DNA and a 4x4 equity tool.

Price difference between a 4wd and a 2wd verisons on a scorpio which uses similar set up and transfer case is about 80,000 to 1,00,000. The difference of 20,000 what you are talking about existed some 10 to 15 years ago with T18 transfer case on CL 500. Now i think on the lowest version with T 18 straight shift the difference is about 40k atleast!

p.s- rain sensing wipers, follow me home etc etc lets leave it to Scorpio.

Last edited by vinod_nookala : 26th May 2010 at 10:01.
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Old 26th May 2010, 10:35   #435
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Liner View Post
when there's probably just a 20k difference between the models for the manual TC
Quote:
Originally Posted by fazalaliadil View Post
The difference will be somewhere around a lakh between a 4X4 and a 4X2, and not 20k. One of the most expensive component is a 4X4 front differential in a vehicle.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Samurai View Post
I think Red Liner is thinking in terms of solid axle differential, which probably costs 20K. This is IFS based differential.
A brand new differential won't be less than 40k minimum. Add a transfer case and you are looking anywhere from 80k to 1 lac as Fazal said. If stuff was so cheap why are guys getting their old 540/550's redone with used parts? Just buy brand new parts !!

Quote:
Originally Posted by jp1 View Post
70% on road and 30 % off road. This is what I am looking for. In fact most of the people requirements as I understand from this thread is that they are going to use it in for city driving and occasional long drives and some off roading. This is exactly my requirement.
You typify the Thar customer. This makes sense on how a 4x4 Thar will appeal to many.

Quote:
Originally Posted by headers View Post
Sir, if it is 70% onroad and 30% offroad, then the THAR does not need a 4wd at all
Vikram, the 30% offroad on a Thar will be equal to your 70% offroad in a 540 !! Chances are the Thar owner will be travelling more often to OTR's across the country listening to music in a/c comfort while a 540 owner will wait for an OTR to happen within 70 kms in cool weather, which at the most will be once or twice a year

Quote:
Also, wonder why it should be released in a 540 shell then? It will also compete with its own siblings!!
Sorry didn't understand this one If you are wondering why a Thar should be released in a 540 shell, its to cash in on the classic appeal of Jeeps is it not? Would you prefer it with a Bolero front end mated to a 540 rear? considering the Invader rear was not smart?

Last edited by DKG : 26th May 2010 at 10:36.
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