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Old 4th July 2010, 12:56   #721
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Originally Posted by ex670c View Post
With the IFS setup the Thar has lost a lot on the Modifications department, which is inherent with a JEEP.
Arka,

Sir! All about IFS setup compacted in one "Statement" here

You are mighty "Right" about IFS on Thar. Jeeps are for DIY mods.
IFS Modifications will be complicated and one may risk messing the setup if done carelessly.

Will wait and watch, till the Thar starts selling
The Jeeper in me ceases to die, inspite of this long long wait.
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Old 4th July 2010, 12:58   #722
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Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
Another non offroad question.
Thar has a jeep shape, which inherently is not aerodynamic.
Such shapes have a proboem. For example the gypsy, even with 80bhp mpfi engine runs out of breath at 120 due to wind resistance, and if you drive around 90-100kmph fuel efficiency suffers. At around 70-80 you can get 14kmpl.

How is the thar in this regard.
Whats the FE you guys are getting when driving at consistent 100kmph + speeds?
Okay we are done with castles in the sky I think.
SPIKE/BEHRAM please give your inputs.
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Old 4th July 2010, 13:03   #723
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Geez, Tanveer! This is the offroad section, we don't really talk about FE here...
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Old 4th July 2010, 20:37   #724
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Originally Posted by Samurai View Post
Geez, Tanveer! This is the offroad section, we don't really talk about FE here...
LOL Samurai... but for the kind of offroading I do, Range is very very very important. Of course, highway range at 100kmph is not an issue due to frequency of pumps, but still, good to know!
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Old 4th July 2010, 21:57   #725
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Originally Posted by Samurai View Post
Geez, Tanveer! This is the offroad section, we don't really talk about FE here...
Hahaha, this is why I refrained from any comments

Quote:
Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
Another non offroad question.
Thar has a jeep shape, which inherently is not aerodynamic.
Such shapes have a proboem. For example the gypsy, even with 80bhp mpfi engine runs out of breath at 120 due to wind resistance, and if you drive around 90-100kmph fuel efficiency suffers. At around 70-80 you can get 14kmpl.
Tanveer, yes you are right. Jeeps do not have good aerodynamics, in fact coast down test on these models have shown results with a and b values on the higher side (a- Coefficient of rolling resistance, b-Aerodynamic drag co-efficient). Results again vary with canopy and open conditions.

Spike

PS- What FE do you think is acceptable/good enough for you?
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Old 4th July 2010, 22:07   #726
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Originally Posted by SPIKE ARRESTOR View Post
What FE do you think is acceptable/good enough for you?
Umm... for me, let's say 14-15 km/l overall (with AC on and hardtop)? Or at least 13 km/l in non-economy mode? My Scorpio turned in 11.5 km/l overall on our pan-India trip... (Hawk-on-fours on a pan-India tour: Delhi-Mumbai-Goa-Manipal-Coorg-Kolkata-Delhi) (OT - is that what I should expect, or should it be better, given the nature of driving I do?)
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Old 4th July 2010, 23:43   #727
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Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
for the kind of offroading I do, Range is very very very important
Are you even thinking about replacing your Safari with a Thar????? You got to be kidding!!
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Old 5th July 2010, 00:40   #728
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Originally Posted by SPIKE ARRESTOR View Post
Hahaha, this is why I refrained from any comments



Tanveer, yes you are right. Jeeps do not have good aerodynamics, in fact coast down test on these models have shown results with a and b values on the higher side (a- Coefficient of rolling resistance, b-Aerodynamic drag co-efficient). Results again vary with canopy and open conditions.

Spike

PS- What FE do you think is acceptable/good enough for you?
Around 14 with speeds touching 100-110 on highway, and around 10 on mountain sections(1st 2nd gear kind of driving)
Quote:
Originally Posted by cool_dube View Post
Are you even thinking about replacing your Safari with a Thar????? You got to be kidding!!
Actually safari is very good till 50-60K kms, after that the costs increase multi fold esp when used on such terrain. If I had 100,000 running in 6 years, safari rocks, but with my kind of running(100,000 in less than 4), I will have to change vehicle after extended warranty runs out.
Moreover, my running costs have been low because many parts have been replaced under warranty. In end July warranty gets over, and then the safari starts costing money.
So I am not sure I want the safari to replace the safari. Lets see what sort of AMC policies Tata offers in the future.

Anyways, this is the thar thread, and to me, this vehicle looks promising.
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Old 5th July 2010, 00:40   #729
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Originally Posted by DirtyDan View Post
The risk is that a manufacturer wishing to do this runs afoul of the regulatory folks...air pollution etc. Switching settings can move the engine out of BSIV compliance, or, will be seen as possibly doing this by the gov boys. Could be people-government messy.

Aftermarket "black boxes" that override or replace existing chips often have a control with several settings from mild to wild from which to choose from. These are legal in much of the world but maybe not for long.
DD, these are the few among all features which the engine controller has and in turn engine too.. i am talking about engines that sold for US market which follows EPA10 and CARB regulatory norms and US customer needs. M&M engines have features which are only required and demanded by the regulatory boards.
OEMs have to satisfy both its customer demands and regulatory board demands. There are some features which a customer will like but regulatory board does not. if an OEM is intelligent enough to come up with ideas and strategies to keep both the parties happy, then they will be in the market. No OEM can run afoul of the regulatory folks who are infact very intelligent team which has done all the ground work to prove the OEMs there is a possibilty for what ever the homework they assign to the OEM and meanwhile every OEM will be trying to know what the other OEM is doing in order to finish their homework.. but very less chances one will come to know from other.. But there are few OEMs who become members of EMA(Engine Manufacturers Association) by funding the research team and share the solutions amongst the members who are facing similar issues from regulatory folks.

and in my previous post, by "full load" what i meant is at every rpm there is max torque that can be generated without crossing say BSIV limits. This limit is imposed by ECU. The mechanical limits are far ahead and it is possible to extract more torque for the same rpm. But you will cross the BSIV limits.. crossing the limits to some extent is OK
by using piggyback ECUs, but not good for long term.. our jeep engines die after 1lkh km and for some it lasts more longer, why
because of the driver.. the old school diesels and their life simply depend on who is driving them.. the new diesels are not, they
last long for what they have designed for. this is because the engine is totally isolated by the ECU from driver errors..



Quote:
Originally Posted by vinod_nookala View Post
A very useful insight there. Can be a little more elobrate here? Who has patented it?
Behram and spike ypur imputs here would be interesting. This may not be specific to THAR, but acedemic discussion would be good
Vinod, it cannot be a academic discussion and are highly commercial as you know the OEMs will not let other OEMs know about the strategies they use to overcome some obstacles. Even if some strategies are patent protected, there will be no clue provided to other OEMs. sometimes this can prove to be a bottleneck for launch dates where in the other OEM will enjoy the market. BTW the topic/feature in discussion is used by the maker of Massif.
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Old 5th July 2010, 08:11   #730
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Originally Posted by SPIKE ARRESTOR View Post
Hahaha, this is why I refrained from any comments
...
PS- What FE do you think is acceptable/good enough for you?
Sorry to be blunt - But Guess you are not aware of the FE of the THAR

Quote:
Originally Posted by star_aqua View Post
which.. the old school diesels and their life simply depend on who is driving them.. the new diesels are not, they
last long for what they have designed for. this is because the engine is totally isolated by the ECU from driver errors..
Thats a very good point - The ECU isolates driver errors!
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Old 5th July 2010, 12:38   #731
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Spike, i wanna test drive one man, just missed it during the 3 day fest.

I am just more keen to see how the ride quality is different to a gypsy or a jeep.

I experienced the ride on Venkats CJ, better than gypsy is what i could feel.
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Old 5th July 2010, 22:05   #732
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Raj, Nasik is not far away, you are always welcome! Ride quality when compared to a Jeep and Gypsy is in a different league altogether. I am sure you will be delighted.

Spike

PS- You remember the Thar which came for EXAMM right? It didn't have any rear seats. One of my colleague (from Thane) accompanied us sitting behind on the spare wheel/wheel arch. Instead of coming the normal route, we came through a deadly ghat section consisting of bad roads (approx 60 kms). On reaching Nasik, his face looked fresh as a daisy (not sure of the other parts though). Also it needs to be mentioned, Sir was maintaining 3 digit speeds throughout the Mumbai-Nasik section.
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Old 8th July 2010, 00:51   #733
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i shall do so Spike but also on the other hand i am thinking of putting rear CFLs on the gypsy and see how it behaves plus a power steering (need that stupid thing in mumbai traffic)

plus i am also thinking of taking out the full hardtop and making a custom one only for drivers cabin.

lets see how it progresses as my progress will be very slow and by that time if thar hits the road then...
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Old 8th July 2010, 11:48   #734
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We are rolling through July, when are we still expecting the Thar to be launched. Are the onion and other vegetable cutting process (homologation) not over as yet?

If the Thar can be launched officially on the 15th of August as a mark of tribute to the Indian Independence, from a company that has been through the ups and downs of the Indian freedom story,it would add some amount of rejuvenation to the cult brand image of the Thar and would sure send some inspiration down a few more spines.

So when will this Thar be launched?

Soon? Very Soon? Not so soon?

Yikes!
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Old 8th July 2010, 13:05   #735
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Originally Posted by yikes6633 View Post
We are rolling through July, when are we still expecting the Thar to be launched. Are the onion and other vegetable cutting process (homologation) not over as yet?

If the Thar can be launched officially on the 15th of August as a mark of tribute to the Indian Independence, from a company that has been through the ups and downs of the Indian freedom story,it would add some amount of rejuvenation to the cult brand image of the Thar and would sure send some inspiration down a few more spines.

So when will this Thar be launched?

Soon? Very Soon? Not so soon?

Yikes!
Now you're being down right ornery and rude . Asking for the launch date...indeed after one thread died trying to answer the same question. What are you trying to do bring our day dreams crashing down to earth?

Sabar ka fal itha hota hai miyan, abhe sabar karo.

That's what I tell my self everyday while reading this thread.

Regards,

Chaunfa
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