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Old 13th May 2010, 16:46   #91
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Originally Posted by Jaggu View Post
It's not the cost but the engineering that will be more troublesome with this implant. Take around 80k for used engine, new ones will definitely be in the range of 2L.
Thats exactly what I am trying to say. Everytime the price is discussed it gets compared to a refurbished army surplus vehicle. I dont think that's fair.
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Old 13th May 2010, 16:47   #92
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@JAGGU SIR, dont you think you are raising the stakes ? 6 to 6.5 EX SHR is going to push it to atleast 7.xx on road. It should not cross 5.99 ONROAD if it needs to sell volumes..

Please note that an X defense MM550 NGCS customised with all goodies can be under 5L..so if THAR needs to compete with the market, then it needs to be priced appropriately.

Pushing it to 6.xx or 7.xx EX SHR is gambling with the idea!! This is purely my opinion.
I second this. Headers is spot on with the pricing. If you have a vehicle at 6.5 to 7 L OTR then add on 75K to 1L for hard top, AC, Rear seats, etc. that takes you to nearly 8L complete price.

The Gurkha is 8.5 OTR, has independent front & rear diff locks and is far more spacious not to mention the 3,00,000 km or 4 year warranty and 12 free services!!

Cheers
Ankit
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Old 13th May 2010, 16:51   #93
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Originally Posted by GoSlow View Post
I second this. Headers is spot on with the pricing. If you have a vehicle at 6.5 to 7 L OTR then add on 75K to 1L for hard top, AC, Rear seats, etc. that takes you to nearly 8L complete price.

The Gurkha is 8.5 OTR, has independent front & rear diff locks and is far more spacious not to mention the 3,00,000 km or 4 year warranty and 12 free services!!

Cheers
Ankit
Ankit i think you haven't read my post after that. Let me clarify again, i was being realistic and i would love to have Thar for under 6 lakhs on the road price BUT it will be nothing short of miracle. So coming back to earth i would price it at 6 to 6.5 lakhs on the road price for the basic 4x4 model. So that it will sell decent numbers.

Reg Gurkha i have to admit i haven't driven one extensively but DKG was very clear with facts as to why he felt Thar was better than Gurkha. For me M&M back up Vs Force's is good enough reason to pick a Thar
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Old 13th May 2010, 16:56   #94
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Originally Posted by GoSlow View Post
The Gurkha is 8.5 OTR, has independent front & rear diff locks and is far more spacious not to mention the 3,00,000 km or 4 year warranty and 12 free services!!
8.5 is the ex-shr price for HT Gurkha, not on-road price.
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Old 13th May 2010, 16:59   #95
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The Legend was priced upwards of 7L so lets not expect Thar to be priced any cheaper. At 7L+ Mahindra won't be able to sell enough Thars to justify mass production.
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Old 13th May 2010, 17:08   #96
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The Legend was priced upwards of 7L so lets not expect Thar to be priced any cheaper. At 7L+ Mahindra won't be able to sell enough Thars to justify mass production.
Exactly my worry, coz marketing department wont care anything about what the offfroad fans wants They will worry about brand positioning and image, which will eventually kill the product with a premium tag with already limited audience.
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Old 13th May 2010, 17:15   #97
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My honest opinion about "costing speculation" is that if M&M can sell this under 6.5lacs on road, they have a huge volume seller on thier hands! It depends upon what M&M as a company believes in the Business model for THAR.

I am sure M&M is not looking at THAR becoming another SCORPIO!! but who knows!!
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Old 13th May 2010, 17:16   #98
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Arka this review is not about Thar vs 540/550 so I am not at all looking at explaining whether an old Jeep can or cannot do the stuff the Thar did in 2wd. If it can, good for the Jeep. What is ultimately important? If the Thar can do our OTR trips effortlessly and also allow us maximum comfort on highways what more do you want?

I will never sell my CJ3B. Its a darling. Totally adorable. I call it my offroad go cart. The summer days are now too hot and as much as I love driving her I cannot use it as much because of the heat. In summer I'd love to go to Ooty and enjoy my Jeep in the cool climbs of the Nilgiris. But the heat is killing. I've postponed all road trips till it rains. So our old Jeeps have limitations, in creature comforts and they limit our ability to access very long distance locations etc etc

The Thar allows me that freedom. To travel in a/c comfort to Ooty or Kodai or Uttaranchal every summer, travel in pouring rain during monsoon and even go into the Himalayan cold. Creature comforts matter. Highway cuiseability matters.

Ultimately what does it boil down to? We travel 3000 kms to reach Leh/Ladakh or Arunachal Pradesh. Can the Thar handle offroad situations there? You bet it would. Western ghats, Rajasthan, rocky terrain, I am pretty sure now that it will handle it all.

It has the traction, the articulation and the power to handle most OTR tracks.

To me that is enough Arka. I am not interested in proving BD wrong just because he opted for IFS. Why should I care? If the car is handling stuff and surprising me with its ability that's all that matters. If the Thar can keep moving regardless of where you take it, what do I care if the articulation is better or worse than some other vehicle?

I feel and I am being sincere in saying this, you will like the Thar. There's a good chance you will want one

Drive it and your concerns will be allayed.

Last edited by DKG : 13th May 2010 at 17:21.
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Old 13th May 2010, 17:17   #99
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Default Family Off-Roader

Hi Guys,

Those with their own Families (Wife & Kids).

1) What makes you think the Thar is a Family Off-Roader? A List of Points.

2) Why does not the Scorpio 4WD make a Family Off-Roader? A List of Points.

3) For a "Family Off-Roader" which would you choose.
i) Scorpio 4WD
ii) Bolero Storm VLX 4WD
iii) M&M Thar

Regards,

Arka

PS - I would request the mods to create an poll.
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Old 13th May 2010, 17:28   #100
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What does an offroader want?

1. Power
2. Traction
3. Articulation
4. Ground clearance
5. Low and balanced CG

What does a family want?

1. Low NVH
2. Creature comforts like a/c dust free cabin etc
3. Comfortable and reasonably fast highway cruiseability
4. Safety
5. Aspirational value

This is really the key to understanding what the Thar has achieved. Its the only car in India that caters to both requirements with aplomb. Provided ofcourse you buy it with a/c and a hardtop.

Last edited by DKG : 13th May 2010 at 17:38.
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Old 13th May 2010, 17:30   #101
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Originally Posted by ex670c View Post
3) For a "Family Off-Roader" which would you choose.
i) Scorpio 4WD
ii) Bolero Storm VLX 4WD
iii) M&M Thar
Arka - When it comes to a 'family Offroader' - the safari can also be added to the list, after all, that is the grand father of the 'family offroader' in India. Thou a different brand, its still in the same league and available off the shelf without much waiting period. Priced close the Scorp4x4...
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Old 13th May 2010, 17:37   #102
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Originally Posted by ex670c View Post
1) What makes you think the Thar is a Family Off-Roader? A List of Points.

2) Why does not the Scorpio 4WD make a Family Off-Roader? A List of Points.

3) For a "Family Off-Roader" which would you choose.
i) Scorpio 4WD
ii) Bolero Storm VLX 4WD
iii) M&M Thar
There is nothing called family offroader! coz almost all the family will disown you once you take them on regular otr's. Yes they can enjoy a trail or two and its always good fun to have them along for the trip to the OTR location. Where they can decide either to join you on the OTR (if they are really upto it) or can stay putt in some resort, while you do dancing in the bush without much guilt.

Instead i would refer it as family friendly offroad vehicle, and if so i would lean towards Thar and then the Scorp.

Thar i prefer coz:

Its basic, so i wouldn't care about costly body claddings.
Can carry wife and the dog without much complains from either of them.
Should be able to complete the trail easier, compared to the other 2.

This apart from the post which DKG has just made above. Now don't ask me why i wouldn't use a MM or a Jeep for this!! or for that matter a Gypsy!

Bolero i will not dare take it near trails, coz of its overhangs and what not.
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Old 13th May 2010, 17:53   #103
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Originally Posted by Jaggu View Post
There is nothing called family offroader! coz almost all the family will disown you once you take them on regular otr's. Yes they can enjoy a trail or two and its always good fun to have them along for the trip to the OTR location. Where they can decide either to join you on the OTR (if they are really upto it) or can stay putt in some resort, while you do dancing in the bush without much guilt.
Cheta, there are few family offroaders in bangalore.
e.g Tanzeem's Nissan patrol, Rihaan's Scorpio etc..
Family will never get down off the vehicle and you will never see these offroaders without family in any events.
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Old 13th May 2010, 17:55   #104
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Originally Posted by DKG View Post
Arka this review is not about Thar vs 540/550 so I am not at all looking at explaining whether an old Jeep can or cannot do the stuff the Thar did in 2wd. If it can, good for the Jeep. What is ultimately important? If the Thar can do our OTR trips effortlessly and also allow us maximum comfort on highways what more do you want?

The Thar allows me that freedom. To travel in a/c comfort to Ooty or Kodai or Uttaranchal every summer, travel in pouring rain during monsoon and even go into the Himalayan cold. Creature comforts matter. Highway cuiseability matters.

Ultimately what does it boil down to? We travel 3000 kms to reach Leh/Ladakh or Arunachal Pradesh. Can the Thar handle offroad situations there? You bet it would. Western ghats, Rajasthan, rocky terrain, I am pretty sure now that it will handle it all.

It has the traction, the articulation and the power to handle most OTR tracks.

To me that is enough Arka. I am not interested in proving BD wrong just because he opted for IFS. Why should I care? If the car is handling stuff and surprising me with its ability that's all that matters. If the Thar can keep moving regardless of where you take it, what do I care if the articulation is better or worse than some other vehicle?

I feel and I am being sincere in saying this, you will like the Thar. There's a good chance you will want one.

Drive it and your concerns will be allayed.
Hi DKG,

In you first post you made a reference to Old JEEPs and NDMS and articulation and stability, so I wanted you to elaborate.

I absolutely agree with you on Highway and Cruising abilities, will definitely open up possibilities of traveling to various OTR Events.

But I'm very aggressive and I want a BOMB PROOF Mechanical System and the possibility to make upgrades.

i) Bigger Tyres
ii) Front and Rear Lockers (After Market)
iii) Winch

On this account I feel the vehicle is lacking with respect to its predecessors. Since it Looks like a JEEP and is Very Peppy, I'm sure most people will drive it aggressively off-road(not abusively), that is where I think there might be trouble.

With a better mechanical specification (also suited for road)and if priced right (6-6.5L), this vehicle, could have effectively cut into ex-army rebuild market for good.

But lets see what all comes out in the Market.

Regards,

Arka
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Old 13th May 2010, 17:56   #105
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No, dont think so they will add it too.

Knowning what you own. Keep the Bolero, sell the CL, buy a Thar.
Oh..No, it will not make economic sense. What CL is doing tough jobs including carrying fertilizers. Due to this in few months, the body starts rusting. Even it has run few kms on coconut oil instead of engine oil when engine oil was drained out. No way I can put a Thar for such duty instead of a CL spending many more lakhs. If at all I make a switch, it will be for Bolero, but then Thar has to qualify as family car. That means lockable cabin, A/c, two rows of front facing seats.
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