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Old 13th May 2010, 18:21   #106
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Ok, We know quite a bit about Thar so just to have an crude estimate can we have a voting poll like:
Will you buy the Thar if it's priced at 5.5-6.0L
Will you buy the Thar if it's priced at 6.0-6.5L
Will you buy the Thar if it's priced at 6.5-7.0L
Will you buy the Thar if it's priced at 7.0-7.5L
Will you buy the Thar if it's priced at > 7.5L

People can make multiple choices to indicate their affordability.
we can get a graph to see how it curves.
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Old 13th May 2010, 18:22   #107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IronWolf View Post
The Indian version would be 110bhpish?
No it is not 110 BHP, slightly lesser

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaggu View Post
DB & Spike hyderabad is just couple of 100 kms, why dont you just drive to BLR so that we can arrange for some friendly BLR muggers to snatch the vehicle
Jaggu, Why only Bangalore? even Chennai is not too far away, i was cursing myself for booking the return tickets on the same day!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Samurai View Post
I think the version you drove was on steroid, putting out some 140hp or so.
It was not on steroid, infact i am planning to plonk a dataset with 300 Nm torque. Let me see.

Quote:
Originally Posted by khan_sultan View Post
Now I am tempted :-) To test and even buy one :-)
Why don't you plan something then :-)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Samurai View Post
BTW, I will make sure to be in Bangalore if Thar comes this way. I am not going to miss it again like last time.
Would love to meet you guys!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaggu View Post
Do i see that the small silencer box has been re routed to sit lil higher? If so great!
NO, does it seem so?

Quote:
Originally Posted by fazalaliadil View Post
Spitfire,
When I tested it, the THAR was classified and couldn't be photographed,
what I missed out then in photographs I compensated now.
Regards,
Thank you Sir for sparing your time and these wonderful pics, it was pleasure meeting you again.

Quote:
Originally Posted by headers View Post
EDIT: IS the THAR coming to Chennai where the bad boys are? I believe the M&M R&D centre is near Chennai. That should give the THAR a natural direction to come to chennai..

Having come to Chennai, whether to meet the bad "ex670c aka arka" and the not so bad " headers " and let them drive the THAR is a different issue altogether.
But the team is not in Chennai na? BTW who are these bad boys?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MileCruncher View Post
The Tyres if I remember were 245/70 R16.

Thanks BD Sir & Spike for the chance to TD the Thar .

P.S: I have already started pataoing wifey for the THAR . Now if only M&M does a buy back of my Storm
Ani, small correction Tyres were 245/75. It was a pleasure meeting you, sorry couldn't take out much time due to the hectic schedule :-(. You have already started pataoing?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MileCruncher View Post
@BD Sir / Spike : Will there be a provision of moving the windscreen. I'm sure it will add character to the vehicle.
Do you mean dropping the windshield? Or moving it longitudinally?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JayD View Post
I'm aware of all the 540 looks heritage and all that,but that will appeal only to the hardcore offroaders/fans. The urban yuppie will not want to be seen anywhere near such a vehicle.

For the Thar to appeal to a wider audience, and also to pull customers from cars, it should look more upmarket and different from the regular 540/550.
JayD point well taken!

Spike

P.S. DKG, Fazal, thank you for sparing your precious time, the wonderful hospitality and off course the famous Hyderabadi Biriyani. It was a pleasure meeting you guys. BTW what was the name of the delicacy that we had in the end? I forgot.
P.P.S. Arka when is the next recce?

Last edited by SPIKE ARRESTOR : 13th May 2010 at 18:26. Reason: add info
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Old 13th May 2010, 18:57   #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaggu View Post
i would blindly go and buy the vehicle if it was 5-5.25 Ex showroom price.
CONGRATULATIONS JAGGU

Quote:
Originally Posted by DKG View Post
A Bolero VLX lists at 6.71 ex showroom. At best a Bolero VLX 4x4 would cost 7.5 lacs ? Which means a Thar with a/c, ps and hardtop should be priced atleast 50k to 1 lac cheaper than a 4x4 VLX?
However Deepak, the THAR should not exceed 5.99L. Else you know what may happen

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaggu View Post
i was being realistic and i would love to have Thar for under 6 lakhs on the road price BUT it will be nothing short of miracle. So coming back to earth i would price it at 6 to 6.5 lakhs on the road price for the basic 4x4 model. So that it will sell decent numbers.
Tell me the numbers Jaggu - 5K a month or 0.5K a month, whats your prediction.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaggu View Post
Exactly my worry, coz marketing department wont care anything about what the offfroad fans wants They will worry about brand positioning and image, which will eventually kill the product with a premium tag with already limited audience.
Come on, you are kidding aren't you?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaggu View Post
Bolero i will not dare take it near trails, coz of its overhangs and what not.
You aint driven the bolero on a trail buddy!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by SPIKE ARRESTOR View Post
even Chennai is not too far away, i was cursing myself for booking the return tickets on the same day!
Spikey..spikey i know why you went back the same day: LOL

So are you guys actually planning to get a THAR to Chennai ? You've got enough na?

Last edited by Technocrat : 13th May 2010 at 19:52. Reason: removed extra smilie.
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Old 13th May 2010, 19:41   #109
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Originally Posted by star_aqua View Post
Cheta, there are few family offroaders in bangalore.
They are more of exception right?

Forget the ol timers, they are hardcore offroaders. Am talking about the new guys and who want to enter the sport seeing the Thar or any such, family's definitely will have a very diff perspective to the idea of fun, atleast in the first few years.

We are fortunate to have started this early and trained our families to an extent to accept our madness.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SPIKE ARRESTOR View Post
Why don't you plan something then :-)
==================
NO, does it seem so?
Dates please and i saw the weld marks at both the ends of the catcon hence asked. Might be wrong.

Quote:
Originally Posted by headers View Post
Tell me the numbers Jaggu - 5K a month or 0.5K a month, whats your prediction.
===========
You aint driven the bolero on a trail buddy!!
My funny brother i ain't guessing any price, though its close to impossible, that the Thar will come on the road at 5.99 lakhs.

And you don't know me that well, to say that i haven't driven a bolero on a trail or otherwise!

Am not saying its not possible or not capable, am talking about getting the floor boards, bumpers etc butchered. Please check the annual OTR thread, do you want anymore evidence?
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Old 13th May 2010, 21:08   #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by headers View Post

So are you guys actually planning to get a THAR to Chennai ? You've got enough na?
Lol good one.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SPIKE ARRESTOR View Post
P.P.S. Arka when is the next recce?
Knowing how Arka is romantically inclined towards the Thar, I don't think he will be happy with just a Palar Recce.

It will Probably be
Kelambakkam Stone Quary for Breakfast (watch out Rack and Pinion, IFS), Palar for Lunch (I think Thar will Kick *** here!) and
the clay pits for dinner.

If the Thar impresses him, he will probably divorce his 540 and marry the Thar
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Old 13th May 2010, 21:48   #111
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My god, M&M does not care for this to be a Volumes player product. For that they have the Bolero and the Scorpio which have almost but killed the competition in their respective segments. Even the Xylo which had a slow start is now picking back up again (on the roads as I see it). Now they will want their new next world SUV to be a game changer in that particular segment.

This Thar is nothing but a pet project which has seen life. It had to make *some* commercial sense and thus will drive more car like, and feel more car like rather than a Jeep.

They will not price it aggressively for sales. They dont care. They know there is a segment of people who will buy it, and it will be launched as a LIMITED edition for that segment.

Thus, there will be a scare: If I dont buy it now, will it be available later (ala Classic/Legend).

So it will be launched - it will be on the road closer to the 8L bracket, and a few guys here will buy it and enjoy, and later crib about the Mahindra ASC's and how they tried selling silencer de-carbing to them during the first service within 1000 kms, and the rest of us will wait for it to hit the second hand market - if we see any truth to the whole saga that is.

Vikram - stop going on about it being a volumes player. They are not aiming this product at the post offices. They are aiming it at wealthy urban yuppies who have recently discovered offroading. Or the serious offroading crowd who will spend any amount of money for performance and reliability. For these two sets, 8L is NOTHING.
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Old 13th May 2010, 21:58   #112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ex670c View Post
But I'm very aggressive and I want a BOMB PROOF Mechanical System and the possibility to make upgrades.

i) Bigger Tyres
ii) Front and Rear Lockers (After Market)
iii) Winch
Arka this vehicle will do all that you do with the 540. BD was telling me about the way they have a driver that drives a car into a kerb thousands of times to test how the suspension holds up.

Believe me at 170000 kms if this test car could feel solid I am inclined to conclude it will meet your reliability requirement.

There are some gear sets with Mahindra which allow for greater torque at the wheel to compensate for larger tyres.

For someone like you I see this vehicle becoming a quick favourite and you will enjoy modding it to make it meaner.

I see the following possibilities:

lower ratio gear sets for the transmission, axle, larger tyres, datasets for more torque, larger booster for brakes to be mean, roll bars and winches.

I'm sure you will get a chance to drive a Thar soon. Please look at the vehicle with a totally fresh perspective. Forget its mechanicals. Just notice how it allows you to do all that you are accustomed to do with the 540. I am pretty confident you will come away pleased. This car will up the game Arka. It will take offroading in India to a whole new level. We have a winner and its for you and me and the many enthusiasts here.

For the rest who don't particularly care about the 4x4 aspect it will be a lifestyle statement.

I must also add that the old Jeeps have a charm which will always endear them to us. Its unthinkable for me to part with the CJ3B. Its such a fine car. I'm sure there are qualities in the 540/550 series which will always endear them to you.

The Thar will be our long distance offroad horse.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SPIKE ARRESTOR View Post
infact i am planning to plonk a dataset with 300 Nm torque. Let me see.
Spike do I tell you the chassis number that gets alloted to me when I order or will you assign a chassis number to me with all the goodies???

Quote:
BTW what was the name of the delicacy that we had in the end? I forgot.
Its called Qubani-ka-meetha

Quote:
Originally Posted by headers View Post
However Deepak, the THAR should not exceed 5.99L. Else you know what may happen
Come on Vikram a 2.5 CRDi at that price? I think you want a low cost Thar with a DI turbo at that price point !!

Quote:
Tell me the numbers Jaggu - 5K a month or 0.5K a month, whats your prediction.
What does that say about a car Vikram? McLaren couldn't sell more than a 100 of their F1. I think they wanted to sell 500

The Thar is a 4x4 packaged with a dynamite engine. You have to pay for that if you value that engine. And it won't come cheap. How many will pay is not the issue. That is why I keep telling BD a 2wd Thar must be simultaneously launched. It will cater to many who have to buy at a price point. The volumes will come from a 2wd Thar with a/c and hardtop. Not your 4x4 version. I am extremely clear about this. How many 4x4 Scorpio or Bolero does M&M sell? Negligible !

The Thar if it is to garner volumes it must sell to a different customer base and be packaged accordingly.

Its the premium hatch market or entry level c segment sedan customer who may consider the Thar as a alternative. After all a 2.5 Crdi at the price of a 1.4 diesel hatch makes a lot of car for money !!

Last edited by DKG : 13th May 2010 at 22:03.
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Old 13th May 2010, 22:17   #113
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Originally Posted by Red Liner View Post
Or the serious offroading crowd who will spend any amount of money for performance and reliability. For these two sets, 8L is NOTHING.
You are getting the drift !!!

Phantoms at 4.5 crores, 911 Carreras at 1.2 crores, Boxster at 80 lacs, Audi Q7 at 75, BMW 530D at 50+ get the picture?

Companies make their dough in a myriad ways. If they get their products right and deliver to their target segment's requirements, that is.

The Thar with its blend of offroad ability and highway cruiseability will enjoy a market here and abroad. BTW for your info the car is a hot seller in SA I am told. They now want all that M&M can produce !!

Vikram obviously wants an alternative to his army rebuilds. For that he is willing to pay a max of 5.99 lacs on road. How many Vikrams exist in India? I'd say 50 people annually ! Any one seriously believes any company will take that tiny a market seriously? I doubt it.

Last edited by DKG : 13th May 2010 at 22:23.
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Old 13th May 2010, 22:29   #114
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DKG: You seem to have done a research on THAR in one day?! You have an answer for every question!
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Old 13th May 2010, 22:31   #115
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Originally Posted by arun1100 View Post
DKG: You seem to have done a research on THAR in one day?! You have an answer for every question!
No my dear sir ! The Thar has been the life of BD and Spike for a long long time and they eat drink sleep this vehicle. I am just a very good listener

BTW I sell cars for a living and the best way to sell a car is to get the customer to test drive it. People make the right choices when they test drive a car. Usually their 20 minute "research" aka test drive allows them to make a decision that usually is the right one for them.

I have bought (let me count) six cars brand new in my iife so far and don't regret any of the purchase decisions. The 20 minute test drive research usually works out to cater to my requirements for as long as 9 years in one case !!

Last edited by DKG : 13th May 2010 at 22:38.
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Old 13th May 2010, 22:36   #116
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Originally Posted by DKG View Post
No my dear sir ! The Thar has been the life of BD Sir and Spike for a long long time and they eat drink sleep this vehicle. I am just a very good listener
Its not only BD and Spike, remember the big list of people behind Thar BD Sir had posted in Thar thread!

I know these people have worked hard for it, what i meant in the previous post is that YOU seem to have studied the THAR perfectly in one DAY.!
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Old 13th May 2010, 22:40   #117
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I am definitely buying Thar as my next daily drive vehicle if it comes with an AC and hardtop. I am not an offroad enthusiast, but I do travel into forest trails regularly.

I am tired of driving my cars constantly trying to avoid the mad bikers, cabbies and the three wheeled idiots in Bangalore. It is time I drive without worrying about getting a scratch on my car.

Since I have other cars in the house I need not worry about the lack of seating at the rear, anyways I am planning on installing a front facing rear seat making it a 4-5 seater.

Now the big question is, when is the Thar going to be launched in the Indian Market and will it be less than 8 lakhs on road for the version with AC, 4x4 and hardtop.

I know one could get a Scorpio LX or a Bolero for that money, but since 90% of the time I drive alone, it doesn't make much sense to go in for a big cars like Scorpio or Bolero. The Thar fits my needs perfectly. I am waiting for the launch eagerly.
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Old 13th May 2010, 22:45   #118
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arun1100 View Post
YOU seem to have studied the THAR perfectly in one DAY.!
When you have more fuel in your veins than blood its a natural outcome of such passion

Like they say the proof of the pudding is in eating it. Drive the car, it will sell itself.
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Old 13th May 2010, 23:22   #119
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@ Fazal & DKG: This is as close a driving impression as I am likely to get without actually getting behind the wheel. Enjoyed the read.

Here I'd like to put forward a few comments regarding how I see the Thar.
  1. My present 4wd is not meant for pure off-roading fun as in an OTR; it's there to act as a vehicle to take my family and me off the beaten track, esp. in the mountains, in reasonable comfort and safety. My previous sedan did not take me places that I wanted to go, hence the current choice;
  2. However, 80% of my city driving is solo, and I would much prefer a smaller 4wd like the Thar to drive in, rather than a Scorpio;
  3. I wouldn't go to work in a non-AC soft-top - not in the Delhi summer, not in the chilly winter - and neither would my family ever let me consider buying a soft-top car without aircon ;
  4. There often are times when I need to go off the highway to squeeze past a traffic jam, and 4wd lets me do it without breaking into a sweat. The Scorp lets me do it, so will the Thar, in even better fashion;
  5. I wouldn't mind the Thar looking like the 540 - what matters is having basic features like AC, ABS, airbags - and a hardtop that I would prefer to be removable;
  6. Someone like me would be happier having a smaller vehicle than the Scorpio 4wd with the same competence, since there's no parking space in front of my house. Sell it to me for 10% less than a Scorpio VLX 4wd, with ALL the bells and whistles of the Scorpio included, and I could be a buyer.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ex670c View Post
Those with their own Families (Wife & Kids).

1) What makes you think the Thar is a Family Off-Roader? A List of Points.

2) Why does not the Scorpio 4WD make a Family Off-Roader? A List of Points.

3) For a "Family Off-Roader" which would you choose.
i) Scorpio 4WD
ii) Bolero Storm VLX 4WD
iii) M&M Thar

As one who ALWAYS travels long-distance with the family in the car, I would try to answer Arka's questions. The Thar can very well BE a family off-roader - with AC, hardtop and forward-facing rear seats (perhaps made readily available by M&M through a supplier for quick after-market conversion, to get around the regulations). It's smaller, more nimble, apparently would handle better even with hardtop, and does not take up as much road space as a Scorpio. It doesn't bust one's spine like a Gypsy does, can negotiate worse tracks than a Scorp, has a smaller cabin that would cool better when the temp outside is 45*C, and ought to be more fuel efficient due to a slightly lighter weight.

The Scorpio 4wd IMO is as good a family off-roader as any, at that price point. The Safari wouldn't have fitted into the space in front of my house, and the Gypsy has all the features that I would NOT want in my car - no PS, no AC, no ABS - and above all, no diesel. Scorpio does my job admirably, except the times I find it's a little too big. Hence the Thar.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DKG View Post
What does a family want?

1. Low NVH
2. Creature comforts like a/c dust free cabin etc
3. Comfortable and reasonably fast highway cruiseability
4. Safety
5. Aspirational value

This is really the key to understanding what the Thar has achieved. Its the only car in India that caters to both requirements with aplomb. Provided ofcourse you buy it with a/c and a hardtop.
THIS family wants go-anywhere ability, forward-facing rear seat and easy parking ability along with the 5 points you noted above!
@adc: You'll agree, I'm sure.

Last edited by SS-Traveller : 13th May 2010 at 23:25.
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Old 14th May 2010, 00:34   #120
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Liner View Post
My god, M&M does not care for this to be a Volumes player product. For that they have the Bolero and the Scorpio which have almost but killed the competition in their respective segments. Even the Xylo which had a slow start is now picking back up again (on the roads as I see it). Now they will want their new next world SUV to be a game changer in that particular segment.

This Thar is nothing but a pet project which has seen life. It had to make *some* commercial sense and thus will drive more car like, and feel more car like rather than a Jeep.

They will not price it aggressively for sales. They dont care. They know there is a segment of people who will buy it, and it will be launched as a LIMITED edition for that segment.

Thus, there will be a scare: If I dont buy it now, will it be available later (ala Classic/Legend).

So it will be launched - it will be on the road closer to the 8L bracket, and a few guys here will buy it and enjoy, and later crib about the Mahindra ASC's and how they tried selling silencer de-carbing to them during the first service within 1000 kms, and the rest of us will wait for it to hit the second hand market - if we see any truth to the whole saga that is.

Vikram - stop going on about it being a volumes player. They are not aiming this product at the post offices. They are aiming it at wealthy urban yuppies who have recently discovered offroading. Or the serious offroading crowd who will spend any amount of money for performance and reliability. For these two sets, 8L is NOTHING.
This is the answer for all the questions about the price and sale volume of the THARCAR.

its not for the 4WD offroad fanatic, its for people who have swift for their maids and servants to buy grocery and need a JEEP as a new toy to play around and 'show off' on the weekends!

so expect the price to be 6.5 lakhs (basic version) onwards as ex showroom price.

and for people like us, its back to MM550s from ex-army scrap to build our own JEEP!

MM is not looking at setting the sales charts on fire with THARCAR!
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