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Old 14th May 2010, 09:09   #121
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Originally Posted by Jaggu View Post
And you don't know me that well, to say that i haven't driven a bolero on a trail or otherwise!

Am not saying its not possible or not capable, am talking about getting the floor boards, bumpers etc butchered. Please check the annual OTR thread, do you want anymore evidence?
Well, that is not the correct example Jaggu!

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Originally Posted by Red Liner View Post
They will not price it aggressively for sales. They dont care. They know there is a segment of people who will buy it, and it will be launched as a LIMITED edition for that segment.

Vikram - stop going on about it being a volumes player. They are not aiming this product at the post offices. They are aiming it at wealthy urban yuppies who have recently discovered offroading. Or the serious offroading crowd who will spend any amount of money for performance and reliability. For these two sets, 8L is NOTHING.
All I want to know is "What is the sales projection on the THAR?" Am I clear now?



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Originally Posted by DKG View Post
What does that say about a car Vikram? McLaren couldn't sell more than a 100 of their F1. I think they wanted to sell 500

The Thar is a 4x4 packaged with a dynamite engine. You have to pay for that if you value that engine. And it won't come cheap. How many will pay is not the issue.
Sir, thank you.

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Originally Posted by DKG View Post
You are getting the drift !!!

Phantoms at 4.5 crores, 911 Carreras at 1.2 crores, Boxster at 80 lacs, Audi Q7 at 75, BMW 530D at 50+ get the picture?

Vikram obviously wants an alternative to his army rebuilds. For that he is willing to pay a max of 5.99 lacs on road. How many Vikrams exist in India? I'd say 50 people annually ! Any one seriously believes any company will take that tiny a market seriously? I doubt it.
Arey forget Vikram, He is NOT interested in the THAR. He just criticizes the various aspects of a vehicle just like you and me, so you guys gotta stop pouncing on him.

BTW, it was a nice drift ..phantom @ 4.5 crores..you should have ended with THAR at 10L. The figure would not have looked big


Quote:
Originally Posted by Muzungu View Post
This is the answer for all the questions about the price and sale volume of the THARCAR.
Yup, it all boils down to price!

BTW, is a fiery red color available?
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Old 14th May 2010, 09:10   #122
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Thumbs up Good Write Up.

hello DKG
thanks for the write-up.
i will buy Thar, if it is available within 2-3 months.
Quote:
other wise i will buy a used 4x4 invader & customize it according to my tests.(attached pic)
cause it is similar to Thar except 550 looks & engine.(it also has OKBJ axle in 4x4 version )
Name:  inveder 550.jpg
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Old 14th May 2010, 09:44   #123
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Originally Posted by SS-Traveller View Post
Here I'd like to put forward a few comments regarding how I see the Thar.
  1. My present 4wd is not meant for pure off-roading fun as in an OTR; it's there to act as a vehicle to take my family and me off the beaten track, esp. in the mountains, in reasonable comfort and safety. My previous sedan did not take me places that I wanted to go, hence the current choice;
  2. However, 80% of my city driving is solo, and I would much prefer a smaller 4wd like the Thar to drive in, rather than a Scorpio;
  3. I wouldn't go to work in a non-AC soft-top - not in the Delhi summer, not in the chilly winter - and neither would my family ever let me consider buying a soft-top car without aircon ;
  4. There often are times when I need to go off the highway to squeeze past a traffic jam, and 4wd lets me do it without breaking into a sweat. The Scorp lets me do it, so will the Thar, in even better fashion;
  5. I wouldn't mind the Thar looking like the 540 - what matters is having basic features like AC, ABS, airbags - and a hardtop that I would prefer to be removable;
  6. Someone like me would be happier having a smaller vehicle than the Scorpio 4wd with the same competence, since there's no parking space in front of my house. Sell it to me for 10% less than a Scorpio VLX 4wd, with ALL the bells and whistles of the Scorpio included, and I could be a buyer.
BD Spike here's another classic Thar buyer! All these points are so valid and relevant to how the Thar is to be packaged. SS your requirement clearly shows you speak from real life requirements and experiences. Thanks for sharing them, its an eye opener for many.
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Old 14th May 2010, 09:49   #124
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Super, Now I get to see the potential THAR Buyers is increasing - Kudos to BD, Spikey and the team .

1. Jaggu
2. SS Traveller
3. jeepster


Guys please add yourselves with your requirements.

Last edited by headers : 14th May 2010 at 09:51.
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Old 14th May 2010, 09:58   #125
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Looks like a correctly priced THAR is going to fulfill the criterion for many people (some existing and wanna be jeepers). A jeep which has a 'Go Anywhere' capability and not just an OTR specific vehicle needing constant attention (and running around) to run perfectly. And the comparison with rebuilt ex-army disposals is not really justified except for the price factor. No doubt the later can be possessed with probably 50-60% of the tentative cost of THAR, but the overall package, reliability and character as an allround vehicle should be leagues ahead as per the real life reviews so far. Hope to test drive it someday in near future
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Old 14th May 2010, 10:08   #126
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Its good that finally some clarity is emerging on what is the target customers. Think it is time some of us should go back to restoring our ex-army 550s. Or the Gypsy which is still a damn good offroader!

Cheers
Ankit

Last edited by GoSlow : 14th May 2010 at 10:10.
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Old 14th May 2010, 10:11   #127
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kandisa View Post
Looks like a correctly priced THAR is going to fulfill the criterion for many people (some existing and wanna be jeepers). A jeep which has a 'Go Anywhere' capability and not just an OTR specific vehicle needing constant attention (and running around) to run perfectly. And the comparison with rebuilt ex-army disposals is not really justified except for the price factor. No doubt the later can be possessed with probably 50-60% of the tentative cost of THAR, but the overall package, reliability and character as an allround vehicle should be leagues ahead as per the real life reviews so far. Hope to test drive it someday in near future
Very well said. The market for renovated army disposals will remain as they cater to the budget constrained offroader. But anyone who drives a Thar will not still go out and rebuild an army Jeep if he can afford the price of the Thar. The Thar will meet and exceed the offroad requirements of 99.9 % of the market. It will measure up to people's expectations of a comfortable cruiser/daily driver too. That really is its appeal. Jack of all trades !!
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Old 14th May 2010, 10:19   #128
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Quote:
Originally Posted by headers View Post
Well, that is not the correct example Jaggu!
Then what is the correct example headersji ? I have seen them suffer in the estates of Kerala for many years, and i myself have broken few parts on the old bolero there. Recently i have seen them getting butchered in BLR circuits, annual OTR was the most recent when a brand new vehicle was tortured, grounding up and breaking parts. I admire the spirits of the owner but i can't stand to see such torture on my vehicles.


Quote:
Originally Posted by headers View Post
Super, Now I get to see the potential THAR Buyers is increasing - Kudos to BD, Spikey and the team .

1. Jaggu
Ahem! what gave you this idea?

Just like you i have some opinion about the vehicle, some good and some bad. I have to really try it, then see it perform in the situations which i have planned before i sign up. Most importantly paisa vasool or not?!

--------------------------------

I really don't understand why few people have such negative outlook to a product without even having tried it. It may be a success or it maybe a total failure and an overpriced product.

But common give it a chance first before writing it off!
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Old 14th May 2010, 10:22   #129
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DKG View Post
BD Spike here's another classic Thar buyer! All these points are so valid and relevant to how the Thar is to be packaged. SS your requirement clearly shows you speak from real life requirements and experiences. Thanks for sharing them, its an eye opener for many.
DKG Sir, the requirements of SS are inline to your verbatim, this is worth exploring.

Spike
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Old 14th May 2010, 11:12   #130
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Originally Posted by headers View Post
All I want to know is "What is the sales projection on the THAR?" Am I clear now?
Yaen da machan? (Why my brother in law?) Are you:

1. Going to purchase 500 THAR's for your employees and are thus keen to know how long this product will survive in the market with proper M&M support (thus it needs to be a volume player)

2. Do you have any equity stake in M&M and believe that THAR is going to propel M&M to the league of Rolls Royce and Mclaren in the Offroad circuit?

3. Were you secretly involved in the original gameplan of THAR but was unceremoniously kicked out for raising objections about using IFS? But you still have an emotional attachment to the vehicle and want to see it flying off the shelves (and thereafter off the road)?

4. Are you secretly building some "better than OEM" spares for the THAR and so want the THAR to do well, get banged up, and then set your sales chart on fire?

5. You are a cheapskate like me and will not pay a naya paisa over 5 Lakhs ON THE ROAD including chrome fittings and 10 year extended warranty on everything including the tyres.

Look forward to seeing you again in namma ooru to discuss further.
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Old 14th May 2010, 11:44   #131
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DKG View Post
BD Spike here's another classic Thar buyer! All these points are so valid and relevant to how the Thar is to be packaged. SS your requirement clearly shows you speak from real life requirements and experiences. Thanks for sharing them, its an eye opener for many.
This is exactly I am looking for. A compact 4 x 4 for city driving and occasional long trips (700 kms at a stretch) including very bad roads, with a lockable cabin, A/c, PS, two rows of front facing seats. If it is available, I am in for a game, I'll chuck my Bolero.
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Old 14th May 2010, 11:48   #132
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apart from the previous requirements i posted, just thought it is also quite necessary to have the second row front facing with seat belts.
if the FRP roof covers this second row, it would be ideal - but am not sure how it affects the looks.
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Old 14th May 2010, 12:20   #133
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Let me give you the bombay scenario.

There is a big 4x4 crowd here. A few of us are active throughout the year and most are active only during the monsoon season. Bombay traditionally has been dominated by gypsies with a very few Jeeps.

In Bombay, like it or not, it's all about image. And i'm not talking about the Yuppy crowd. The moment one says Jeep, people think about utility vehicles like ones used by BEST, MTNL, other public services. When a person buys a Jeep in this city, he needs to also think about what his peers, family and friends will also think. And Mahindra is to blame for shooting itself in the foot for diluting the Jeep look/brand by giving the jeepish look to their pickups as well. Now they are rectifying it by giving it the bolero look; but i think it's come too late.

Thus, most of the bombay guys will still buy a gypsy or the Classic if available. Another thing is that for 98% of the bombay crowd, their 4x4 is not the primary vehicle. So the whole point of it being a family car is moot. And whoever has their 4x4 as a primary vehicle, it's always the Gypsy. Yes, AC and PS are important but not front facing seats, hard top, etc. Bombay people need reliability. Bombay life is very fast and Bombay is not know for jeep mechanics. Hell, i'm still trying to find a good guy. Mahindra workshops don't know their a$$ from their elbow! Again Mahindra spoilt it's name by making unreliable vehicles in the past and a traditional MM540 looking vehicle will not inspire people very much in this regard as well. (Note: i'm not saying Thar is unreliable in any sense. I'm talking brand recall and brand association)

Mahindra will again be selling this vehicle as a bare bone 7 seater which will make people think of it more as a rural people carrier. Yes, they may showcase a Thar done up by their customization department, but that will again cost a lot more and then it doesn't make financial sense.

It's my personal take that people will not go in in large numbers for the 4x4 version for the Thar in Bombay. And if priced cheap (specially the 4x2 version), this vehicle will again be scooped up in large numbers by public utilities & the brand value will further nose dive.

Jeeps and SUVs are also bought here in large numbers by political parties and builders. This crowd will again not buy the Thar but will buy a white Scorpio.

I, personally, am waiting if ever a SWB version comes out. Or just give me the engine!

There is no doubt that the Thar is a great vehicle and i was floored when i drove it. But, i will not buy it. Bombay is a different ball game altogether.

Sorry BD & Spike, i'm just playing the devil's advocate.

Active bombay 4x4 crowd:

Gypsy: Devang, allan, alok, imran, asif, danny & 3 friends, GS, Paras (soon), desmocidesi, kaushik, danlalan, etc
Classic: GTO, Tejas
Willy/CJ3B/FordGPM/Kaiser: Gogi, Genesis, Hussain, Amol
MM550: David (recent), Sabareesh, Allan (highly modified).

Do the math.

Last edited by Tejas@perioimpl : 14th May 2010 at 12:21. Reason: typos
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Old 14th May 2010, 12:22   #134
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BD Spike its interesting to see many people speak up about how the car will/can fit into their requirements as a daily ride for the family with offroad capability.

I think its now so important to ensure the aesthetics of the exterior and interior, ergonomics etc are focused on. You have brilliant mechanicals, now the Thar must delight customers in terms of finish, goodies inside the cabin and overall appeal or aspirational value.

This is really interesting. The forum is providing a wonderful platform to understand how people think. This is precious.

Requirement of airconditioning and a lockable hardtop option are so clearly established.

My next question is, what about a 2wd. I say M&M should do it.

2wd with a/c, hardtop. That should appeal to many more people. Remember you save on 4x4 mechanicals ! What say? Maybe this is the wrong section to ask the question.

Shall we start a thread to assess the viability of a 2wd in the general cars section?

Last edited by DKG : 14th May 2010 at 12:26.
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Old 14th May 2010, 12:24   #135
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This thread has me going. Fun reading.

All said and done the Thar is definitely going to pull in its own buyers, I am assuming after reading the DKG review.
I am sure there are a few people, I said few, who wouldn't mind spending a few extra bucks to buy a brand new, no nonsense off road vehicle that has support. And trust me Mahindra are normally effective when it comes to solving issues. Lets hope it stays that way. Considering running around for spares which are hard to procure when the said vehicle is older than you by age. But, that's a different ball game all together. The nostalgia makes one just hang on and live with it.

And yes, does any one here have any idea on how many CL340's got sold in the domestic market? I am just curious.

edit:I second the Doc's view on the SWB.

Last edited by beejay : 14th May 2010 at 12:26. Reason: I second....
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