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Old 22nd April 2011, 22:57   #226
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Default Re: I found The Hulk - WILLYS CJ3B

Shubz, long, long ago I had a signature on TBHP. It said "Listen to the old man. It works".
Telling you to do the same here. Get rid of that engine mounted mechanical pump.
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Old 22nd April 2011, 23:09   #227
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Default Re: I found The Hulk - WILLYS CJ3B

Shubz drive Hulk as you normally would, take him to office and if by any chance it sputters just switch ON the electric pump and drive on. Worst case scenario you would leak few ml of petrol.

If you want wrap the OE pump in cloth, it will cut the heat to an extent and if you really need to wet you can just pour some water. My only worry is your double action OE pump has glass on top and it should not crack/break due to sudden cooling from water.
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Old 22nd April 2011, 23:42   #228
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Originally Posted by Jaggu View Post
Shubz drive Hulk as you normally would, take him to office and if by any chance it sputters just switch ON the electric pump and drive on. Worst case scenario you would leak few ml of petrol.

If you want wrap the OE pump in cloth, it will cut the heat to an extent and if you really need to wet you can just pour some water. My only worry is your double action OE pump has glass on top and it should not crack/break due to sudden cooling from water.
By any chance?? By all chance it will sputter! On the trial with Babu, he asked me to drive as normal as I was driving on low rpms/speeds. it was doing fine. But when I was about to reach home, it sputterred and died in the middle of the road! Presence of mind, pulled the EFP switch and cranked - it roared to life and I moved on with the EFP on.


I had more than half a mind to drive to work today on the Hulk but looked heavenwards and it was loaded. So wisely didn't drive him to work. (was stuck in a traffic jam for 2 hours near cauvery junction as a tree had fallen off and blocked the road near the Skoda showroom). Will wait for the weather gods to settle before venturing out with the Hulk to office. (i don't even have a wiper, you know)
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Old 23rd April 2011, 08:57   #229
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Default Re: I found The Hulk - WILLYS CJ3B

Shubz,

The 'Jaggu research paper' reasoning should immensely help you.

It is summer and your engine is new, which means you are in double jeopardy.

Get rid of one (not required) petrol filter of the two you have, for a smoother flow.

Run your Jeep on electric pump full time.

Don't be concerned about the rich fuel, your new engine needs it.

Don't wait for it to sputter and stop, as the fuel starvation to your newly overhauled engine could lead to engine seizure, a possibility you can avoid.

Don't bother about the trials at this stage, 'let me see when it stops', kind.

During summer, this assist electric pump is a must even for the best tuned Jeeps, believe me, as we are running atleast a 50+ year old pump that has lost its 100% potential due to mechanical wear, engine heat, etc. in a traffic which couldn't be envisioned 50 years ago.

Though Jeeps were running world wide by the 1940's, they were primarily designed in U.S. (cold country). During WWII...in Africa, India and the middle East, they too encountered similar problems what we face today, until General Douglas McArthur, found one of his sock missing regularly.

Your pump ideally must be under the fuel tank, after the filter, fixed in the inside of the C section of your chassis, this placement will keep it cocooned and protected in off road situations.

Action:
Gravity> filter> pump> suck> reach carburetor.
Regards,

Last edited by fazalaliadil : 23rd April 2011 at 09:06.
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Old 23rd April 2011, 17:50   #230
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Default Re: I found The Hulk - WILLYS CJ3B

Lots of discussion happening on the placement of EFP, nice. Any idea about the typical temperature values found in various locations for Petrol / Diesel vehicles? I mean temperatures near Radiator, Oil Sump, Filter, Booster, Near turbo, Battery, Exhaust outlet pipe etc? Assuming constant ambient temperature.

Spike
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Old 23rd April 2011, 20:58   #231
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Lots of discussion happening on the placement of EFP, nice. Any idea about the typical temperature values found in various locations for Petrol / Diesel vehicles? I mean temperatures near Radiator, Oil Sump, Filter, Booster, Near turbo, Battery, Exhaust outlet pipe etc? Assuming constant ambient temperature.

Spike
Dear Spike,
Once a great man told me this:

Dear Fazal - I am also still learning and I will continue to learn all the time. Replacing the old packing with a new one will not make any difference in the fuel temperature inside the fuel pump. However, a good packing is required at this location to prevent oil leakage. If at all,there are "heat sink" washers available which can be used.

For your information, I am giving fuel temperature readings recorded during hot weather test conducted on a representative petrol engined car, using the test procedure exactly as defined by NISSAN Japan.

Month of test = May
Fuel temperature inside the fuel tank = 38 degrees C
Fuel temperature inside the fuel pump inlet = 58 degrees C
Fuel temperature inside the carburetor float chamber without fuel return line = 75 degrees C
Water temperature at radiator inlet = 117 degrees C
Water temperature at the radiator outlet = 110 degrees C
Air temperature inside the engine compartment = 107 degrees C (unbelieveable but true)
Air temperature inside the air cleaner throat = 110 degrees C
Ambient temperature in the shade = 44 degrees C

In this set of conditions, the car stalled. Then I worked on it with fuel return line which you all know. After the final solution was implemented, the car has never stalled.

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar

Source: below link, info here is extremely useful in present crisis.

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/4x4-te...heating-2.html (CJ3B Fuel Delivery and over heating.)
Regards,

Last edited by fazalaliadil : 23rd April 2011 at 21:02.
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Old 23rd April 2011, 21:24   #232
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Default Re: I found The Hulk - WILLYS CJ3B

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Dear Spike,
Once a great man told me this:
Dear Fazal - I am also still learning and I will continue to learn all the time.
These words sound familiar, I hear this every day at work . I like it, as it is applicable to me also.

Quote:
Water temperature at radiator inlet = 117 degrees C
Water temperature at the radiator outlet = 110 degrees C
These readings are pretty high but still mind blowing. In current diesel engines (with final design configuration), I have seen these values hovering around ~100 deg C for radiator inlet side. Going by the above data and the nature of radiators we Jeepers use nowadays, (most are oversize), the coolant flow rate and the cooling achieved (engine side) must be better when compared to the test results mentioned above. I don't think Bangalore or most Southern parts will offer such extreme results. Yes, humidity is different but still, why does the Fuel system problem persists? I am keeping in mind the ambient temperatures which have become worse compared to the earlier days. What must be the reason?

Spike

PS- By vehicle testing standards even a Diesel engine is considered to have failed "Cooling Performance Test" with similar mentioned values!

Last edited by SPIKE ARRESTOR : 23rd April 2011 at 21:28. Reason: add info
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Old 23rd April 2011, 21:32   #233
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I am keeping in mind the ambient temperatures which have become worse compared to the earlier days. What must be the reason?
Global warming, Spike.
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Old 23rd April 2011, 21:48   #234
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Default Re: I found The Hulk - WILLYS CJ3B

Quote:
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Water temperature at radiator inlet = 117 degrees C
Any idea of the glycol concentration, and the pressure?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SPIKE ARRESTOR View Post
I am keeping in mind the ambient temperatures which have become worse compared to the earlier days. What must be the reason?
Too many cars spewing CO2?

Has the volatility of modern petrol increased?

Regards
Sutripta
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Old 23rd April 2011, 22:57   #235
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Default Re: I found The Hulk - WILLYS CJ3B

I think yes, higher octane rating and unleaded nature also is causing bigger issue for older petrol engines??
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Old 23rd April 2011, 23:45   #236
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I think yes, higher octane rating and unleaded nature also is causing bigger issue for older petrol engines??
There is one simple quick fix solution to keep the engine block temperature lower.

1) Use the High Capacity latest generation Aluminium core Radiators, that comes with a factory fitted electric fan combo and a temperature sending unit from any suitable car

2) Get rid of the engine fan.

3) Connect the thermostat, once the engine attains a certain temperature, the fan comes on.

By doing this, the engine runs cooler than before, and the Fan noise too vanishes. Not to forget the kind of weight loss in the front end.

I am currently doing some research about this set-up. Might implement this on the 118NE. Will keep u guys posted.

http://www.caparadiator.com/aluminumvscopper.html
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Last edited by PAVAN KADAM : 23rd April 2011 at 23:51.
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Old 24th April 2011, 08:36   #237
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Default Re: I found The Hulk - WILLYS CJ3B

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Originally Posted by Sutripta View Post
Has the volatility of modern petrol increased?
Do you think this will make such a huge difference?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaggu View Post
I think yes, higher octane rating and unleaded nature also is causing bigger issue for older petrol engines??
Higher octane rating -> Smoother combustion process, don't think this will have negative impact on older engines. But yes, Compression ratio Vs Octane rating come into play.

Jaggu, Tetraethyl Lead (TEL) was mixed with Petrol to improve its Antiknock properties (increase Octane rating).

Spike
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Old 24th April 2011, 09:19   #238
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Do you think this will make such a huge difference?
Hi,
For vapour lock, will surely make a difference. Huge? Don't know.

Regards
Sutripta
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Old 24th April 2011, 09:27   #239
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Default Re: I found The Hulk - WILLYS CJ3B

^^ Yes, absolutely agree regarding vapor lock but not that extent for engine cooling. Today, fuel system layouts are such that vapor lock is minimized to a good extent.

Spike

Last edited by SPIKE ARRESTOR : 24th April 2011 at 09:30. Reason: add info
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Old 24th April 2011, 10:24   #240
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Default Re: I found The Hulk - WILLYS CJ3B

Hi,
I was not talking of F134s overheating, but of them sputtering to a halt!
Not having faced such severe overheating problems when I used to use a CJ3, I would think the problem lies in the radiator. And possibly the fan shroud.
(One car on which I had severe overheating problems was a 1750 cc AC Ambassador. And after a lot of work on that car, came to the conclusion that most of the so called 'heavy duty radiators' were junk.)

Quote:
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Today, fuel system layouts are such that vapor lock is minimized to a good extent.
But CJ3s aren't todays technology!

Regards
Sutripta
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