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Old 5th December 2010, 18:13   #181
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Now, why does the entire discussion here revolve around nomenclature...! Does it really matter what the vehicle is actually called. The entire group here, all this while, was talking about a real off-roader with all bells & whistles. There is one in the anvil and a precursor is out in the market.

I certainly do not believe Mahindra would invest all that $$ without thinking about what they want to achieve out of it. And lets accept it, Mahindra intents to make some serious money out of this exercise. All the boarders here put together would buy...say...500 Thars...? While that remains a niche group a company cant put a biz plan and all associated activities incl nomenclature around this 500 number. There is a larger game at play and that's what is being played.

Having said that, my take is that the Di model is for a segment that uses Thar for their bread & butter and CDRe model is for serious enthusiasts whose purpose of Thar is completely different from the Di segment.
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Old 5th December 2010, 18:16   #182
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Samurai View Post
Wow, this is a great scoop!
How did you come up with 7.5L?

The road tax in Karnataka is 14% + 10% cess on road tax = 15.4%
Average annual insurance = 3%
On road price is ExShowroom price + (15.4 + 3)% tax, which comes 6,07,198 X 1.184 = Rs.7,18,922/-
@ Samurai - Thanks for the calculations. Mine was a guesstimate.
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Old 5th December 2010, 18:35   #183
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While a lot of guys are worring about the Thar DI diminishing the snob value of Thar CRDe, I am more worried about the Lakhs of Mahindra pick ups that have the same look as the Thar CRDe. Just imaging you are proudly driving your Thar CRDe to your office in electronic city and you see a Yellow Thar CRDe in you rear view mirror and then when it over takes you, you it loaded to the top with vegetables and four laborers sitting atop the vegetables.

Your friend in the village is not going to mistake your Thar CRDe for the Thar DI, he will ask you if he you have put a canvas body on the Mahindra pick up.

Look guys, Mahindra has done disservice to the CJ, by putting the CJ front in front of a commerical pick up, so I wouldn't worry too much about the Thar DI.

@pjbiju:

Anyone who is into jeeps will immediately know the difference between the Thar DI & Thar CRDe. Some one who is not into jeeps won't know the difference, except maybe when he is eating your smoke on the highway and wondering whether you filled up your mm540 with rocket fuel.
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Old 5th December 2010, 18:48   #184
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Samurai View Post
Wow, this is a great scoop!
How did you come up with 7.5L?

The road tax in Karnataka is 14% + 10% cess on road tax = 15.4%
Average annual insurance = 3%
On road price is ExShowroom price + (15.4 + 3)% tax, which comes 6,07,198 X 1.184 = Rs.7,18,922/-

It will be 6.5L or less in many other states. We can't blame Mahindra for the pathetic road tax of Karnataka.


Not sure if my comment makes sense to many, but this is my personal opinion

If the Thar CRDe or Thar Di is ever priced equal or above Bolero CRDe or Bolero Di versions, I'm seriously doubt if Mahindra to make a success story with Thar.

Bolero SLX is 6.2L and Strom is 7.2L on road in Chennai, which has got lots of goodies like more seats, A/C, power steering, hard top, plastic panels, lights, grill, headlights ... so on.

The distinct feature of Thar is that it is a 4x4 enthusiastic vehicle and fewer people are waiting to grab their stake. But if it is over priced in my opinion anything above 5L onroad is a over kill to Thar CRDe itself. The Thar is not meant for people who likes only looks, if M&M feels I can write another story like what has happen to Mahindra Classic.

I hope the pricing when worked out will have consideration for all such things, not just fancy tag.
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Old 5th December 2010, 19:34   #185
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Quote:
Originally Posted by svsantosh View Post
MBut the point is, the BS3-DI-TC was pretty smooth (over my current XDP4.9) and loved its torque in 2nd-low...!!

Jaggu - Pricingwise, see this.
Current Di is refined but the power advantage of Crde is HUGE!

Quote:
Originally Posted by vinod_nookala View Post
Jaggu, Iam taking your inputs in true spirit and i know being a 3B owner you are our well wisher. So keep pouring in your thoughts.
Thank you for taking it in the right spirit.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vinod_nookala View Post
Yes very true!! Many of the off road buffs like you sensed that MM550 NGCS was coming as a replacement of Major...but the shock was THAR branding on it, which according to you isnt good for us. Point well taken!
Thanks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vinod_nookala View Post
Not only hype Jaggu, it lived up to its hype and did every thig what our old humble jeeps did. What our old jeeps could not do is to over take it on the highway
As i have always said, the Crde engine dispels anything and everything on it's way. Even "if" the IFS may have a disadvantage.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vinod_nookala View Post
Even today, CRDe THAR 4wd is the thing!! There is no dilution here. We proved it and yes it did run circles in AKC remember ??
I would really love to see Crde as Thar and M&M write off the money spent on those name tags for Di

Quote:
Originally Posted by vinod_nookala View Post
So, you felt Di THAR is launched and CRDe is seen nowhere? Just because you have some pics here? FYI- THAR as a brand is yet to get launched officially...and yes expect some one to click CRDe THAR pics also very soon.
No Vinod, i was being sarcastic about the delays thats all. And you know my POV about the name hijack.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vinod_nookala View Post
We will give you what we showed you all in the form of THAR CRDe 4wd. Your expectations will be met and surpassed if possible. Let the buzz begin on THAR CRDe you know what iam talking about.
Please do work on investing a little bit on interiors and the sensor water proofing, will make a huge difference. Sensor water proofing i really dont mind if it can be done as a dealership option, if priced sensibly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vinod_nookala View Post
Yes of course, we will benefit again! With so many valuable inputs how can we not benefit?
Happy to share feedback, if it can be taken in the right sense.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jaysmokesleaves View Post
After reading all the pricing speculation the THAR Crde AT APPROX 8.5 LAKHS (on road), it is absolutely NOT VALUE FOR MONEY, and if the above statement holds true, another 1-1.5 lakhs will be the cost of differentiating the rural transport from personal transport.

Why is everyone here talking Ex showroom prices. Sounds like a bunch of M& M sales guys discussing pricing strategy here.
Only reason why i said Ex showroom was because of the disparity in taxes between states, that shouldn't muddle our sample survey he he

Quote:
Originally Posted by JeepHyde View Post
My Question: Why should I buy a brand New Thar when I can build my own 'Thar' from say, MM550 or MM540 as more VFM option or Why shouldn't I wait with a little more patience for Thar to hit the used market?
Nope it ain't that easy, many of us have really spent lakhs and month's on this task. I would prefer a brand new product to rebuilds.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyrus43 View Post
You know, after holding back on this topic for well obvious reasons, it sickens me to see the fact that despite an auto manufacturer, or in this case a group of passionate people inside an auto manufacturer put in the efforts to do something good for you guys, you all still grumble.
Cy I respect the individuals, but as a customer i will mumble, grumble and jumble if i dont like something. So relax, its our right.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyrus43 View Post
Yes, I disagree with the MDi being called the Thar, but common sense dictates you call two exactly same looking vehicles the same for the sake of sheer non confusion. And yes, I believe the Thar image might slightly get diluted in terms of pure brand value. Im looking at this from a marketing perspective so I might have a different opinion to others.
Fair enough we also shared our concerns. But i believe more than we offroaders there is a market for The Thar and there the name would always get an edge.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyrus43 View Post
From an engineering point of view though, we all know what this car is capable of as we have seen it perform at the EXAAM and AKC. it went through EACH and EVERY single obstacle. Only one of the few cars that did it mind you!!
No doubts that engine overpowers the deficiency of IFS, if any.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyrus43 View Post
How can you make assumptions on the price if they havent been released yet? How can you decide the fate of a car without ever driving it. If you dont like it, go buy your old used, reused and basically "molested" army disposals or your ridiculously overpriced second hand gypsys and then keep tinkering with them every few days to make them work.
I can buy a brand new gypsy for lesser price. And since Thar will not serve as my primary and only mode of transport i might be better off with a brand new Gypsy for now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyrus43 View Post
I know for a fact that Thar bashing will continue for eternity, just as Fiat bashing continues on other threads, but then maybe some of you have no soul and just wont understand... Sad though. Have fun with your little japanese pretenders.
Nope this is much better discussion, nowhere Thar was bashed. It was M&M's marketing strategy that was thrashed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyrus43 View Post
EDIT: And let us not forget, at the end of the day, You aren't doing Mahindra a favor by buying the Thar or by Buying any of its other products.
Feeling is mutual, mind you customers have evolved in the last 30 years.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bblost View Post
I agree with your points. Also I feel that M&M is betting on the fact that an enthusiast will still buy his vehicle no matter what it is called.
Very few got it, there is a huge market more than the enthusiast, when it comes to urban population.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyrus43 View Post
That is precisely my point! And that is because they have the tech to support it!! which other car on the market gives this kind of flexibility today!!
Gypsy, with some amount of imported off the shelf parts. Thar we even dont know what are the mod options that M&M will give, if any (again), at this point of time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyrus43 View Post
Why do you believe that the Thar that was at EXAMM and AKC wasnt the actual thar? Give me one fact that supports the statement that it was some souped up devil's seed.
Maybe a slightly tweaked engine mapping and a jugaad snorkel, apart from that i dont have a doubt.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AWD View Post
8.5L would be way OTT, should I say the least VFM!
Yup i would rather prefer a brand new Gypsy at that price, since Thar at the end of the day cant become my primary vehicle with the spec-ulation available.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sudarshan View Post

Manufacturers make profit not because the product is good or bad but because people buy it . Many of the current products ( all companies included ) just dont really fit in the 'value for money ' but are sold in numbers anyway ( for various reasons )
You said it there is more to do apart from the product, even the short video carries that message.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyrus43 View Post

PS DB sir is a great man , a very honest ,knowledgible & yet down to earth I respect hiim not because any company, but as a person of great qualities.
101% and more!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyrus43 View Post
I dont think it is OT at all sudarshan. Simply because most posts here are staring to edge towards mahindra's business ethics.
Nothing to hide here, its a clever tactic by M&M marketing. Thats all, ethics is a strong word to use.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyrus43 View Post
But, coming to value for money, I could argue that things like the Honda City or the VW polo is not value for money, but they still sell like hot cakes don't they. (similar to what you said)
You have no clue about markets and marketing or what! Very different audience and market for these. Which Thar exclusivity could have taken advantage of, sadly no.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyrus43 View Post
Do get your facts right my friend, Dad started the threads on the thar way before any of you guys knew he was with M&M. infact as I remember correctly it was something that came up over dinner which inevitably must have been "DHUN-DAR" once and that is how it started. hehe!!
Not really many of us knew who he was. But lets please not drag him into this, we are quite sure he is not responsible for M&M product marketing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jaysmokesleaves View Post
The manufacturer isnt doing me a favour, they are doing themselves one coz they will make a profit out of my decision.
So by so called grumbling.. im doing myself a favour because im voicing my perspective.
As a prospective customer thisw is how I look at it;
======
So guys, i feel this M&M sales pitch on the forum in the guise of wanting customer opinion isnt impressing the enthusiast im me.

And like has been posted by many, M&M is here to make money, so by all means they can try all their stunts.
But before I pull out my cheque Im going to make sure, its going to be a bang for my buck.
Let the sales pitch get louder.

I share similar emotions. I think its high time customers also started being choosy. Otherwise we will go on with this same ol story again and again with manufacturers. And this goes beyond M&M.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyrus43 View Post
Is this official or is this speculation!! That is like saying the next iphone will be rubbish because it might cost a lakh!! you Can not base your opinion on speculation. It just int fair!!
Prices are not speculative, atleast the source is reliable.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyrus43 View Post
Well, if your ideas of "enthusiastic" is a set of lights (which you dont need), a set or big rims (which you dont need), a set of massive fat tyres (which you dont need), a fancy paintjob (which you dont need), some stupid racing seats (which you dont need), and BLING in general (which you DEFINITELY don't need), maybe you should buy something else.
We might need a diff-lock and some more articulation from the stock at the least.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyrus43 View Post
firstly, the CRDe will have bigger rims and tyres than the MDi. That is common sense. And WHY do you need all that?? The lift kit and the rims and tyres will just end up RUINING your suspension geometry. So basically you are undoing everything a multi million rupee R&D division did! WHY???
Let's not get into what we want or not. Leave it to the user naah, as long as the manufacturer does not create a big issue with warranty we would want to try out lot of things.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyrus43 View Post
So you would buy a BS3 Gypsy for almost 7 lakhs on-road but you wont buy a Thar MDi for much less??
6.58 lakh OTR road for BSIV gyspsy in BLR! Right now looks like a very good option for me than the Thar. I have a diesel car and Thar in the current avatar cannot replace it. So for a 5k kms of driving a year why should i spent another lakh more?

Quote:
Originally Posted by pjbiju View Post
We have Alto, i20 etc. with different engine options present in the market. At least the Alto variants are differentiated visually. I hope the THAR CRDe would be differentiated in some way.

However, I really do not mind the same name as long as I know what THAR CRDe is. So that is not a deterrent per se. Each one who buys the Thar CRDe can name it after their own hearts. In a way, if the Thar names helps to bring in higher sales volume for the DI variant, M&M can leverage that to price the CRDe version lower, benefitting the enthusiasts.
========
I am waiting to see what I will get with the Thar CRDe. Will there be A/C, PS (I think this is confirmed), roll cage, an optional Hard Top, optional front facing rear seats etc.? How much would they cost, especially a good looking hard top?

I have no experience in off-roading. So the performance in that area, I will leave it to the experts to evaluate once the product hits the market.
If you read through last few replies you will understand why name matters a little bit atleast.

Vehicle will come soft top, PS and maybe with alloys (hope its not the scorpio ones), rest if possible has to be a dealership fitment. Thats the news right now.

Capability wise vehicle is quite aok.

Quote:
Originally Posted by alabjarus View Post
Now, why does the entire discussion here revolve around nomenclature...! Does it really matter what the vehicle is actually called.
========
Having said that, my take is that the Di model is for a segment that uses Thar for their bread & butter and CDRe model is for serious enthusiasts whose purpose of Thar is completely different from the Di segment.
Yes as i said earlier we are a minority but there is another majority in the urban crowd itself which can be exploited with a right branding exercise. On the other hand bread & butter would sell irrespective of a name. That was my point.

So now that pricing is out, optimist in me slightly confused. My calculations goes like this:

The Thar: 6.1 Ex = 7.4 OTR BLR (min)
Tyre= 30
AC= 30
Rear diff locks = 40??

Total 8.4 to 8.5 minimum. This for a second vehicle and 5-6k kms run for me.

Gypsy 6.58 OTR + Tyre 30 + EDIT AC 20 + (Locker + Crawler 70) = 7.6 lakhs.

I still save close to a lakh. And less expensive electronics in the engine for my paranoia about water wading!

What to do what to do, somebody get the darn thing out and do a proper test drive evaluation!!!

Last edited by Jaggu : 5th December 2010 at 19:39.
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Old 5th December 2010, 19:54   #186
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Frankly the 550 platform/looks can never create a niche segment. The Jeep has been far too common & as a member rightly pointed out, MM used the same looks on commercial pick-ups. A Thar user who wants style, image, might be left disappointed.

I won't be left surprised if Bolero, Scorpio, Safari owners look down upon Thar users! I say this because Bolero, Scorpio were considered as up-market & natural progression of MM Jeeps.

I fear that the discussions on nomenclature at this critical stage might delay the launch further.
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Old 5th December 2010, 19:54   #187
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Quote:
If the Thar CRDe or Thar Di is ever priced equal or above Bolero CRDe or Bolero Di versions, I'm seriously doubt if Mahindra to make a success story with Thar.
The most sensible comment that has come up after the hue and cry over Thar MDI.For the layman, why a bare basic Jeep for 5 lakh when a hard top with basic amenities could be bought for 5.5 lakh?

Quote:
The distinct feature of Thar is that it is a 4x4 enthusiastic vehicle and fewer people are waiting to grab their stake. But if it is over priced in my opinion anything above 5L onroad is a over kill to Thar CRDe itself.
Totally agree with that.No true offroader is likely to insist upon A/c and alloys but the pricing will have to be highly competitive since an MM540 can be equalled to Thar by plonking a Scorpio DI engine. Then why Thar Crdi for 6.5 lakhs or Thar MDI for 5.5 lakhs?
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Old 5th December 2010, 20:08   #188
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaggu View Post
.....
So now that pricing is out, optimist in me slightly confused.
I find the pricing a bit on the higher side.. especially IF it is coming in the trim levels we have heard about.

Quote:
...somebody get the darn thing out
Considering the number of times the 'possible launch date has been postponed', I have kind of lost hope and will believe only when it is out. Let's see if the launch date holds this time and Santa comes to town

Quote:
...and do a proper test drive evaluation!!!
.
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Old 5th December 2010, 20:19   #189
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If M& M is listening then here is the enthusiast in me pointing a few things.

The MDi.
1. Please try and take the THAR name out of it. Call it Bolero Junglee. That will sound better.
2. For those who want it, in the MDi form, please provide ac & ps as a factory option.
3. Hard top and 4x4 can also be factory options and please keep a reality check on the pricing.

For the CRDe.
1. Please keep the THAR brand exclusive to this version, which should be a representation of the evolving Mahindra Jeep concept.
Use distinct and effective badging, add good macho alloys, not the ugly Scorpio ones please.
2. Dont make it too expensive, and atleast ac & ps should have to be standard factory fit and not an additional dealer fitment.
3.The hard top, roll cage, etc may be dealer options, but within a decent price range and most importantly the quality should be top notch.

When a customer pays a premium for something like the THAR he will/ should expect;
1. Distinct badging from the rural transport jeep.
2. Distinct looks to complement the badging.
3. Distinct mechanicals(in this case engine & IFS).

We are all too familiar with Mahindra's cut and paste strategy since the beginning of history of the company.
Mating engines and gearboxes on different body styles across the range including load carriers is quite popular with Mahindra. But for THAR as a brand, some exclusivity has to be maintained, that is, if Mahindra wants to have an exclusive brand in the THAR, else it might just end up as another fancy load carrier or rural police jeep at best. Dont make this one go the Mahindra Classic way.

And please keep a reality check on the price.

EDIT >> let me put a price to my thoughts. ON ROAD PRICE BOMBAY.
Mdi Bolero Junglee 4x2 - 5lakhs
Mdi Bolero Junglee 4x4 - 6lakhs (with bells and whistles ac & ps)

Thar Crde(4x4) - 7.5 lakhs with ac, ps and alloys/hardtop)
The Crde Thar still sounds expensive to me.. am I the only one!!

Last edited by jaysmokesleaves : 5th December 2010 at 20:29.
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Old 5th December 2010, 20:25   #190
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maybe MM can offer some colors only on Thar CRDe to differentiate from the MDi version
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Old 5th December 2010, 20:32   #191
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AWD View Post
Frankly the 550 platform/looks can never create a niche segment.
Yup thats why a lil bit of tweaking and some accessorizing (not M&M mod job!), that can do wonders. Just look at Hyd guys, how they do it up aesthetically and functionally, if M&M had invested a lil bit on tooling up for one or two new panels things would have really worked differently. Right now they dont have anything going including the name, which was the last chance lol

Quote:
Originally Posted by khan_sultan View Post
I find the pricing a bit on the higher side.. especially IF it is coming in the trim levels we have heard about.
I always thought Thar would be a Gypsy killer and hoped it would start a pricing war. But then i was always unsure why M&M would price it that low, especially when they can sell it in the name of Diesel Crdi.

Ideal pricing for me would have been 6 lakhs OTR. I would have blindly bought it, even if it had only bare bone stuff.

Quote:
Originally Posted by khan_sultan View Post
Considering the number of times the 'possible launch date has been postponed', I have kind of lost hope and will believe only when it is out. Let's see if the launch date holds this time and Santa comes to town
Coming to think of it, this product is a year or two late. Ain't it?
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Old 5th December 2010, 20:39   #192
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Originally Posted by trammway View Post
Bolero SLX is 6.2L and Strom is 7.2L on road in Chennai, which has got lots of goodies like more seats, A/C, power steering, hard top, plastic panels, lights, grill, headlights ... so on..
@trammway, I think it should be compared to the Bolero Storm and not the SLX. Take the cost of Bolero Storm, decrease the cost of the extra sheet metal, add the price of the Front Diffs, BW T-Case etc. This should be the pricing point for the Thar CRDe.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaggu View Post
I can buy a brand new gypsy for lesser price. And since Thar will not serve as my primary and only mode of transport i might be better off with a brand new Gypsy for now.

Yup i would rather prefer a brand new Gypsy at that price, since Thar at the end of the day cant become my primary vehicle with the spec-ulation available.

6.58 lakh OTR road for BSIV gyspsy in BLR! Right now looks like a very good option for me than the Thar. I have a diesel car and Thar in the current avatar cannot replace it. So for a 5k kms of driving a year why should i spent another lakh more?

So now that pricing is out, optimist in me slightly confused. My calculations goes like this:

The Thar: 6.1 Ex = 7.4 OTR BLR (min)
Tyre= 30
AC= 30
Rear diff locks = 40??

Total 8.4 to 8.5 minimum. This for a second vehicle and 5-6k kms run for me.

Gypsy 6.58 OTR + Tyre 30 + EDIT AC 20 + (Locker + Crawler 70) = 7.6 lakhs.

I still save close to a lakh. And less expensive electronics in the engine for my paranoia about water wading!
@Jaggu: As a second vehicle that will do only 5K kms a year, I think The Thar DI makes more sense in your case. Gypsy obviously is a different animal, but it's a personal choice as the Gypsy and Thar DI will have it's advantages and disadvantages. Will you be able to utilize the Gypsy as your pimary vehicle? DI has no fancy electronics. Robinson has driven his Invader into water and driven back to bangalore. Petrol engines are less water friendly than diesels.

If I may add to jays suggestions, add the chrome buck/walrus tooth to the Junglee to differentiate it from the crde :-)

Last edited by 4x4addict : 5th December 2010 at 20:41.
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Old 5th December 2010, 21:13   #193
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Originally Posted by 4x4addict View Post
@Jaggu: As a second vehicle that will do only 5K kms a year, I think The Thar DI makes more sense in your case.
=====
Will you be able to utilize the Gypsy as your pimary vehicle? DI has no fancy electronics. Robinson has driven his Invader into water and driven back to bangalore. Petrol engines are less water friendly than diesels
You have a point here BUT if i have to register, i will have to do it in Kerala, then using it in BLR is going to be a pain. But yes i know Di is much better off with water. But Gypsy's 1.3 liter MPFI is also quite aok, when it comes to running inside water. <GRIN>

No i will not be using Gypsy as my primary vehicle, i have already done that in 2000, dont want to walk that track no more.

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Originally Posted by 4x4addict View Post
If I may add to jays suggestions, add the chrome buck/walrus tooth to the Junglee to differentiate it from the crde :-)
Hope you are not serious, M&M might just do that! coz you asked for it!!!
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Old 5th December 2010, 22:56   #194
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Originally Posted by svsantosh View Post
MM 550 Di 4x4 (Thar Junior++) - MAX 5,12,252 Ex.Shwroom
Name:  1.jpg
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Wow, that was super pretty close... hmm, a year ago I didnt know I will say this, but I may start to save up for this BS3-4wd-DI after all, lets see.

Good thing I moved to a BS2/3 town...
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Old 6th December 2010, 01:05   #195
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Location: Thane-Mumbai
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Smile X'mas is coming soon

One nice pic. Just to lighten up the things.
Mahindra Thar MDi Thread (more pics at page 24)-white-shark.jpg
Courtesy: http://www.flickr.com/photos/juanelo242/5124545517

This can also be done to MDi. Just need some negative offset alloys there.

One of the best looking Thar we must say.
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