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Old 3rd December 2010, 20:28   #121
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I was waiting at the show room for the delivery of my new bolero and talking about Thar to a sales executive, then the sales manager Mr.Vivek came to me and told Thar has arrived in their backyard,me and Vivek went to the backyard.I got a chance to test drive the new Thar DI.

Thar DI TC
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more pics coming.
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Old 3rd December 2010, 20:39   #122
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The suspension
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engine bay
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See the air filter in take !
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Old 3rd December 2010, 20:47   #123
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaggu View Post
I just was quoting a naming example where 2 models with same looks but different name, which gave a clear brand identity. FYI 1000 atleast in most part of India was NOT a failure.
1000 came 1st in the market, the feedback for which prompted Maruti to launch a 1300cc car. Now could it name the 1300cc car as 1000? So, it was a compulsion to change the name. Hope its clear now & we move on...

After Esteems advent, 1000's sales vanished. Which is not the case with Bolero & Storm.

Quote:
Major was consumed majorly by the govt departments and security agencies. Same will happen with Di 550 irrespective of Thar or not.
This is another reason why naming the Di as Thar won't matter. Urban yuppies fall for used by Forces products & the nomenclature of Forces vehicles is seldom followed.

Quote:
name has a huge impact. Especially when the name was cleverly built over years using various means. Reason why "am" not thrilled is they showed me a tiger named Thar, now they are saying its just a cat
Again by that logic, 550 name would make more impact because that was there for years & used by the people of this Country. Most don't even know what's Thar. Not all the buyers use the services of t-bhp!


Quote:
Originally Posted by 4x4addict View Post
I was referring to folks hitting their head against the wall about the Thar brand being diluted because of MDI. It may or may not, but if anyone is holding back from buying a Thar CRDe, just because there is a Thar DI then it doesn't make sense in my opinion. I am just questioning the logic that some people put forth that Thar DI will bring shame to the Thar CRDe.
Scorpiio has the M2DI which doesn't prevent it from clocking 3000+ units a month.
Safari still offered the 2.0 TCIC option unil a year or so ago
XYLO has D2 with grey bumpers which hasn't prevented XYLO from selling 3000 units a month.
Xenon has a 4x2 cousin.
Heck, even the Range Rover has a poor cousin called the Range Rover Sport which is based on the previous generation(prior to BMW/Ford takeover).
Porche has the GT2 and the boxter for the masses.
Mercedes has the A-Class and The SL55 AMG.
I can go on an on, but I hope people will stop worrying about Thar brand dilution.
+1, cannot agree more! I was shouting hoarse about this!

Last edited by AWD : 3rd December 2010 at 20:48.
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Old 3rd December 2010, 20:53   #124
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The engine bay
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See the air intake !
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Interior
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Normally this opening type wind shield comes with 4WD Jeeps !!
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Expected price for 2WD 5.1L Ex showroom
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Old 3rd December 2010, 21:06   #125
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Nice. More info pouring in. Dont tell me it does not come with floor mats?

So how much would the 4x4 be ex showroom? 5.60 - 5.75 ?

Can someone tell me which

4x4 Addict - you buying this would make not much sense. The specs of a perfect 550/Thar MDi are already in your garage.

MDI3200 TC DI Turbo Engine
NGT520 Transmission
57" OKBJ Bolero 4x4 Axles
53" Fully Floating Bolero Rear Axles
+ loads of bells and whistles

Buying this Factory made would not really be as much fun as the cut paste job in your garage.
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Old 3rd December 2010, 21:29   #126
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Floor mats ? please don't ask wheel covers

The Jeep was just arrived in to the show room they don't get a chance to clean it.

Any way I am going ahead with Thar CRDi ! I am going to sell my lovely Lancer and CJ500 4WD for the Real beast The Thar CRDi.
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Old 3rd December 2010, 22:00   #127
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chaunfa View Post
Jaggu,

I meant 6.5 with the yuppie mobile, is my logic flawed? Since a hard top Bolero VLX is 7.5 at Saddi Delhi on road. Course that is a 2 wheelie thingie and it talks naughty to you .

Regards,

Chaunfa
I personally would love to see that price. But my best guess for Thar Crde would be min 6.5 Ex, which will make it 8 to 8.25 and will make my heart weep , if.....

Quote:
Originally Posted by 4x4addict View Post
I was referring to folks hitting their head against the wall about the Thar brand being diluted because of MDI. It may or may not, but if anyone is holding back from buying a Thar CRDe, just because there is a Thar DI then it doesn't make sense in my opinion. I am just questioning the logic that some people put forth that Thar DI will bring shame to the Thar CRDe.
=========
They won't. That's probably whey people should move on..
Point of coexisting, the smaller number one will suffer with brand identification. In this case its clearly going to be the Crde. Thats my contention.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AWD View Post
1000 came 1st in the market, the feedback for which prompted Maruti to launch a 1300cc car. Now could it name the 1300cc car as 1000? So, it was a compulsion to change the name. Hope its clear now & we move on...
Esteem was more of a compulsion due to pollution norms hitting metro's, MUL did a wise thing by making it a nation wide launch instead of selective city. This is what i remember.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AWD View Post
After Esteems advent, 1000's sales vanished. Which is not the case with Bolero & Storm.
Am not very sure what you meant by this? Bolero still sells more than Storm? If so is it coz in the semiurban scene where 4x4 is also a need, there are no other choices at that price range right? The state of MH alone is a very big market for the Bolero if am not mistaken. Another point does Bolero sell big in cities and has it contributed to a bad image for Storm also, that the buyers prefer Scorp more?

So its not that straight forward, any comparison for that matter. It will require a Yem Bee Aaaye's

Quote:
Originally Posted by AWD View Post
This is another reason why naming the Di as Thar won't matter. Urban yuppies fall for used by Forces products & the nomenclature of Forces vehicles is seldom followed.
I really dont agree, just refer the case of classic, how it created a niche that will explain the angle of urban yuppie's. Its a diff story Classic sold whatever it did. Pricing, market maturity for a lifestyle 4x4 etc

Quote:
Originally Posted by AWD View Post
Again by that logic, 550 name would make more impact because that was there for years & used by the people of this Country. Most don't even know what's Thar. Not all the buyers use the services of t-bhp!
YES! i always wondered why they started off with the Thar business in the first place. Maybe it was for export market. But then it was promoted with super enthu under the Thar name in offroad and online forums. When they got the attention they were looking for, BAM! comes the Tractor engine

Anyways our debate will go on and on
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Old 3rd December 2010, 22:23   #128
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaggu View Post
Esteem was more of a compulsion due to pollution norms hitting metro's.
You have drifted far away from the core issue/point. You had quoted eg. to support the naming strategy. Which I have clarified that it was a compulsion as Esteem could not be called "1000"! In the case of Thar, there's no compulsion to give a different name to Di.

Also, pollution issue during those times, somehow Im unable to swallow it! Didn't 1000 & Zen share their engines? Zen kept selling for a good decade with the same engine.

Quote:
Bolero still sells more than Storm? If so is it coz in the semiurban scene where 4x4 is also a need, there are no other choices at that price range right?
For sure, Storms sell far less. Also Bolero 4x4 doesn't sell in huge nos.
Storm did not sell big because of its price & not because of carrying Bolero name. Also, consumers were happy with the usual Bolero.

Quote:
promoted with super enthu under the Thar name in offroad and online forums. When they got the attention they were looking for, BAM!
These days cars come in variants whose pricing differs by lakhs. Take the eg. of Aria, Laura, etc. Their variants across the range sell, the lower variant does not affect the sales of higher & vice-versa.

There's nothing more to a name, its the product that matters.
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Old 3rd December 2010, 22:45   #129
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AWD View Post
You have drifted far away from the core issue/point. You had quoted eg. to support the naming strategy. Which I have clarified that it was a compulsion as Esteem could not be called "1000"! In the case of Thar, there's no compulsion to give a different name to Di
I did not drift anywhere, what is the compulsion that you are talking about? With your logic Di should be called 550 and Crde the Thar. Not the otherway around.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AWD View Post
Also, pollution issue during those times, somehow Im unable to swallow it! Didn't 1000 & Zen share their engines? Zen kept selling for a good decade with the same engine.
Nope 1000 engine which came in 1000 and Gypsy is very different from Zen. Zen engine was an all aluminum block which they could easily upgrade to MPFI also. M1000 a cast iron block, this was just one of the difference.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AWD View Post
For sure, Storms sell far less. Also Bolero 4x4 doesn't sell in huge nos.
Storm did not sell big because of its price & not because of carrying Bolero name. Also, consumers were happy with the usual Bolero.
Yeah the rural market it was intended storm is missing the 4x4 tranny also right?

Quote:
Originally Posted by AWD View Post
These days cars come in variants whose pricing differs by lakhs. Take the eg. of Aria, Laura, etc. Their variants across the range sell, the lower variant does not affect the sales of higher & vice-versa.

There's nothing more to a name, its the product that matters.
Who said cars dont come with same name? I was just saying there is no harm in keeping the name different to create a niche market thats all.

You are totally in denial of my point of debate and getting confused Sir.

- Thar was pitched in as an all out offroader for niche market. I have not seen a single commet about being BS3 or for semi-urban market being mentioned till very recently.

- Everyone knew it was coming with MM body shell, even objected to it lol

- Many of us knew about the Di coming to replace Major

- Enough hype was created with Thar name, especially in offroad circles.

- When Fixed axle and cheaper engine was discussed, they were dismissed off and Crdi and IFS was shown as in thing. Which will run circles, remember!

- Suddenly someone in M&M marketing wakes up and decides, the relaunch of MM550 to replace Major will be called it Thar Di

- Still no sign of the real Thar, with which the castle was built up in the minds of these expecting customers.

In our chalta hein way of things, this is no big deal. I felt wrong expectation was created and now it will result in that brand dilution. Whatever is left of it.

Why do i get a feeling that M&M will profit from this debate also.
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Old 3rd December 2010, 23:00   #130
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaggu View Post
I did not drift anywhere, what is the compulsion that you are talking about? With your logic Di should be called 550 and Crde the Thar.
Compulsion of not naming Esteem as 1000 because Esteem had a 1300cc engine! The name THAR does not signify any engine capacity, MM is free to carry it on to Di.

Maruti kept Gypsy name common on both 1000 & 1.3 because it was not tied to engine capacities.

Quote:
I was just saying there is no harm in keeping the name different to create a niche market thats all.
What you meant was that carrying Thar name to the Di will affect the "real" Thar's sales. Which I have been refuting all along.

Quote:
Thar was pitched in as an all out offroader for niche market. I have not seen a single commet about being BS3 or for semi-urban market being mentioned till very recently.
Enough hype was created with Thar name, especially in offroad circles.
Suddenly someone in M&M marketing wakes up and decides, the relaunch of MM550 to replace Major will be called it Thar Di
I felt wrong expectation was created and now it will result in that brand dilution. Whatever is left of it.
Why do i get a feeling that M&M will profit from this debate also.
That's clever marketing for you, MM used public boards very cleverly to its advantage. If I remember, whenever one thread on Thar would be closed, MM showed the vehicle to some gullible t-bhpian & got a new thread created. For what, just to keep up the hype! Nothing wrong in this, its the new age marketing, which t-bhp has witnessed for the 1st time! Welcome to reality!

Companies maintain secrecy, only some info. is shared, so Im least shocked/surprised at this move.
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Old 3rd December 2010, 23:08   #131
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AWD View Post
Maruti kept Gypsy name common on both 1000 & 1.3 because it was not tied to engine capacities.
ehh Gypsy King???

Quote:
Originally Posted by AWD View Post
What you meant was that carrying Thar name to the Di will affect the "real" Thar's sales. Which I have been refuting all along
I will share a video later.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AWD View Post
That's clever marketing for you, MM used public boards very cleverly to its advantage. If I remember, whenever one thread on Thar would be closed, MM showed the vehicle to some gullible t-bhpian & got a new thread created. For what, just to keep up the hype! Nothing wrong in this, its the new age marketing, which t-bhp has witnessed for the 1st time! Welcome to reality!
Now you know why we are moderating and closing down threads, do you think we were that gullible? Seriously???!

Watch this simple interesting video about brands. It has many points i have in mind.

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Old 3rd December 2010, 23:16   #132
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaggu View Post
ehh Gypsy King?
So the Thar MDi & Thar CRDe!

Quote:
Now you know why we are moderating and closing down threads, do you think we were that gullible?
Really! I thought maybe because they were becoming roudy.
Still they(MM) trumped you, closure took place very late, much like "chidiya chug gai khet"!

Will see the video later, going to coffee shop for dinner!
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Old 3rd December 2010, 23:28   #133
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AWD View Post
So the Thar MDi & Thar CRDe!
Thar Junior naah Estate and The Thar for me

Quote:
Originally Posted by AWD View Post
Really! I thought maybe because they were becoming roudy.
Only on a OTR, but great that you saw the reality that we are nice folks.

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Originally Posted by AWD View Post
Still they(MM) trumped you, closure took place very late, much like "chidiya chug gai khet"!
Arre baba they are digging their on graves by calling Di a Thar, coz we have potential Thar buyers than Di in here. As someone said if you say Thar outside online community, the reply will be Thar what? Ok apart from estate owners who want real work horse for their estates (respect!). Many of them would also go for Crde coz once they hit the highway, Di will be a dud.

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Originally Posted by AWD View Post
Will see the video later, going to coffee shop for dinner!
Happy supper!

@Sreejesh: Did i see paint chips and rust on the first and second pics?! Common M&M what happened to paint quality, thats like basics.

Last edited by Jaggu : 3rd December 2010 at 23:37.
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Old 4th December 2010, 00:03   #134
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Every time the word 'Thar' pops up on the thread title. The discussion spans multiple pages, half of it useless.

Mahindra is really trying to cash on the hyped 'Thar' word. and thats really funny.

Reason they introduced this is because they discontinued the crude Major.

So there will be two Thar one with a yellow plate and another with a shinny alloy.
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Old 4th December 2010, 00:53   #135
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AWD View Post

That's clever marketing for you, MM used public boards very cleverly to its advantage. If I remember, whenever one thread on Thar would be closed, MM showed the vehicle to some gullible t-bhpian & got a new thread created. For what, just to keep up the hype! Nothing wrong in this, its the new age marketing, which t-bhp has witnessed for the 1st time! Welcome to reality!
+1 to it. that's what M&M did and still doing.
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