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Old 4th March 2013, 13:55   #151
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Default Re: Marengo- Rocky Beige Scorpio mHawk 4WD- Only one in India till now (Updated with

ABS issue. From mid last week, I see that the ABS light was coming on after a few km's of driving. However, restarting the car, the light used to go, till another 5-6kms of driving (though not surely).

Took it to the workshop and the scanner was hooked up with the engine kept on. There was a "WSS Front right Open" error. Upon restarting the error code changed to "WSS Front Right Healed".

WSS stands for Wheel Speed Sensor. The front right was opened, a simple procedure, involving removing the front right wheel and then the sensor spindle. It was found to have accumulated a lot of dust, it was cleaned and put back.

As a precaution, I got them to remove the front left as well. It too had dust accumulation but not much.

Drove the car for two days without the light coming back on.

On the third day had to drive to work in a hurry and had to brake hard once to avoid hitting a cab appearing from nowhere, driving on the wrong side of the road. After a few kms from that point (though not sure if this was connected to the hard braking) had the ABS light come back on.

On the way back and the next day, had the same symptoms as before, ABS come on intermittently, though this time there was no trend. At one instance the ABS light was on from start-up itself.

Today drove to the workshop a good 15 kms with a lot of deliberate hard braking, some on gravel, but no light. However hooking up the scanned "WSS Front Right Open" was to be found.

The front right hub is being opened now.

Last edited by 1100D : 4th March 2013 at 13:57.
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Old 4th March 2013, 16:46   #152
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Default Re: Marengo- Rocky Beige Scorpio mHawk 4WD- Only one in India till now (Updated with

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Originally Posted by 1100D View Post
Time to update this thread with something meaningful

After quite a bit of time, Marengo got an addition to it.

MLD - Mechanical Locking Differential
Hi 1100

Just now I stumbled upon your thread where you have MLD-fied your scorpio!

Just like the old surf excel washing powder ad goes - "there is one good thing and one not so good thing(read: risky)" in this upgrade.

The good thing(s) about the MLD has been proven beyond doubt with Marengo performing like a ballet dancer over rocks and in slush.
Now coming to the not so good thing. Let us imagine a vehicle fitted with MLD cruising at 60 kmph on a highway. All of a sudden, it travells over a considerable patch of road such that the front left and rear left wheels are travelling over a surface with low tyre to road adhesion ( say oil patch / ice / loose sand, gravel, etc) and the front right and rear right wheels are travelling over regular tarmac. There will be a difference in wheel speeds between rear left and rear right wheel. This difference in wheel speed will normally result in tail swing. This can be handled without much of a risk. But if the vehicle is fitted with MLD, it will kick in when a wheel speed difference of 100 rpm is sensed thereby sending the same engine power to both the rear wheels. This will create heavy engine drag on the wheel that is travelling on tarmac( due to the high friction available coupled with large power from the engine) thereby resulting in vehicle dynamics misbehaviour. Hence, all vehicles with MLD(auto lock) coming as factory fitment would have been properly tested and evaluated before they hit the showrooms. After market installations can be avoided.

This is my two paise.

Requesting experts to share their views as well.

However, I would like to make it clear that this post is just a technical debate and is no way intended to hurt the feelings of 1100D.

Cheers Buddy
W_C
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Old 4th March 2013, 17:05   #153
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Default Re: Marengo- Rocky Beige Scorpio mHawk 4WD- Only one in India till now (Updated with

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Hi 1100

Just now I stumbled upon your thread where you have MLD-fied your scorpio!

Just like the old surf excel washing powder ad goes - "there is one good thing and one not so good thing(read: risky)" in this upgrade.

The good thing(s) about the MLD has been proven beyond doubt with Marengo performing like a ballet dancer over rocks and in slush.
Now coming to the not so good thing. Let us imagine a vehicle fitted with MLD cruising at 60 kmph on a highway. All of a sudden, it travells over a considerable patch of road such that the front left and rear left wheels are travelling over a surface with low tyre to road adhesion ( say oil patch / ice / loose sand, gravel, etc) and the front right and rear right wheels are travelling over regular tarmac. There will be a difference in wheel speeds between rear left and rear right wheel. This difference in wheel speed will normally result in tail swing. This can be handled without much of a risk. But if the vehicle is fitted with MLD, it will kick in when a wheel speed difference of 100 rpm is sensed thereby sending the same engine power to both the rear wheels. This will create heavy engine drag on the wheel that is travelling on tarmac( due to the high friction available coupled with large power from the engine) thereby resulting in vehicle dynamics misbehaviour. Hence, all vehicles with MLD(auto lock) coming as factory fitment would have been properly tested and evaluated before they hit the showrooms. After market installations can be avoided.

This is my two paise.

Requesting experts to share their views as well.

However, I would like to make it clear that this post is just a technical debate and is no way intended to hurt the feelings of 1100D.

Cheers Buddy
W_C
Hi W_C good debate!

MLD does not kick in above 25kmph, infact it deactivates above that speed due to the mass moving out on centrifugal force. So any differential speed above 25kmph wont have an effect. Infact I have driven on sandy beach at 80kmph even with a water splash on one side. Marengo does not stop.

However on a slushy field, once the MLD is activated and you are below 25kmph, you do get to see low speed drift! And its fun that way, getting sideways at such a slow speed.

This Eaton MLD were standard on US Chevy Avalanche trucks. These are also standard on Scorpio 4x4 Pickups sold in Australia and has gone extensive testing.

The only reason I went for MLD vs Diff locks was that I got this done at Mahindra itself, not aftermarket.
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Old 16th March 2013, 12:38   #154
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Default Re: Marengo- Rocky Beige Scorpio mHawk 4WD- Only one in India till now (Updated with

Update on the ABS issue: The front right wheel speed sensor was replaced. Since I have driven 10 days from the date of resolution without the problem recurring, I can safely say that its past now.

Marengo thus made it to this alignment of the numbers.

Marengo: Rocky Beige Mahindra Scorpio mHawk 4WD & MLD. 4 years & 1 lakh kms up!-dsc_0048.jpg

Ever since I got the "Maxxis 771 Bravo A/T" have Marengo being plagued with warning lights on the instrument panel. Never got myself, till recently, to concentrate on how the tyres are. Probably there was a jinx.

Firstly it was the tyre pressure lights, took some time to go, because I realised both the pumps I used to fill air on, has had recent calibration, and I was attributing the readings to the changed tyre dimensions.

Then it was the "check engine". Mentioned a few posts back.

Soon followed by "ABS".

Last 10 days, its been peaceful, enough to concentrate on how the new tyres have shaped up. But then, the problems that occurred, also ensured, that the first few thousand kms were driven cautiously, allowing a proper settling in.

Coming to the tyres. I have never had such mixed reactions on a tyre swap. I either liked it or I did not. But in this case I cant surely say.

These tyres are quieter in rolling, even quieter in lateral slide (mainly because the increased width actually adds to lateral grip and the chances of the slide is reduced both in frequency and magnitude). But quite noisy during hard braking. ABS also kicks in more frequently.

Ride is better, but it does not really communicate surface conditions as good as the Geolandars did.

Sidewall is stronger, but there is no linear progression on how the lateral grip is lost. Moreso there is not much communication in catching the tail.

I know, whatever I am not liking, is probably the area in which street pattern tyres operate, should have been happier getting one. But Geolandars were not street pattern but handling and responses were super, although there was this fragile sidewall.

So lets see how it shapes up as we go forward.

Till then, Marengo continues to fly!!

Marengo: Rocky Beige Mahindra Scorpio mHawk 4WD & MLD. 4 years & 1 lakh kms up!-dsc_2554.jpg

pic courtesy:Indrajit Deashi from FB

Oh, the rear left power window conked out yesterday.

Last edited by 1100D : 16th March 2013 at 12:43.
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Old 24th March 2013, 19:35   #155
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Default re: Marengo: Rocky Beige Scorpio mHawk 4WD & MLD. 55,555 kms up!

1100D Sir,

When you installed the Eaton locking diff in the rear axle, what was the odometer mileage? What is the odometer mileage now? How has the driving experience on highways been? How fast have you driven on highways with the MLD and for how many hours sustained?

It is my intention to get a VLX 4x4 and install the MLD like you have.

But in this thread, Diff-Locks vs LSD, numerous TBHP Gurus strongly recommend not to install a locking diff, especially for a vehicle like the Scorpio. They say handling and driving on highway will be adversely affected. If you want a quick read on this issue, please read only posts 1, 6, 26 and 89 in that thread.

Since you're actually using it, I wanted your advice as well.

Many thanks.
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Old 25th March 2013, 10:09   #156
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Default re: Marengo: Rocky Beige Scorpio mHawk 4WD & MLD. 55,555 kms up!

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How fast have you driven on highways with the MLD and for how many hours sustained?
I feel I m qualified to answer this question since Hariya too has an MLD in him now.

I have driven him upto 155kmph on the highways (his top speed) and I drove down from Delhi to Bangalore in 33hrs. The route covered all sorts of roads, from horrible to heavenly.

I have faced no issues with the MLD so far.
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Old 25th March 2013, 10:36   #157
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Default re: Marengo: Rocky Beige Scorpio mHawk 4WD & MLD. 55,555 kms up!

Good to know! Thanks Devdath! Nothing like hearing a first person account!

Am back on track now...

BTW, how many km have you done after installing the MLD?
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Old 28th March 2013, 17:30   #158
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Default re: Marengo: Rocky Beige Scorpio mHawk 4WD & MLD. 55,555 kms up!

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Originally Posted by TheTeacher View Post
1100D Sir,

When you installed the Eaton locking diff in the rear axle, what was the odometer mileage? What is the odometer mileage now? How has the driving experience on highways been? How fast have you driven on highways with the MLD and for how many hours sustained?

It is my intention to get a VLX 4x4 and install the MLD like you have.

But in this thread, Diff-Locks vs LSD, numerous TBHP Gurus strongly recommend not to install a locking diff, especially for a vehicle like the Scorpio. They say handling and driving on highway will be adversely affected. If you want a quick read on this issue, please read only posts 1, 6, 26 and 89 in that thread.

Since you're actually using it, I wanted your advice as well.

Many thanks.
The odometer reading during install was a bit lower than 31k and the vehicle now is almost at 57k. Its also been almost a year that its been on the vehicle.

Have done a lot of miles on expressway and a substantial portion of that around the top speed of the vehicle. There has been no difference in on-road behaviour. The vehicle has also done sustained 11-12 hours of driving too.

On the otherhand, last monsoon season, have had to do a bit of slush and Marengo did not require to be switched onto 4wd mode even. Could sense the diff getting locked. Previous monsoon, Marengo had gotten stuck royally and could not even self extract in 4wd (had to use JCB assistance)

Regarding the posts you were hinting at, they are mostly speaking about different other types of diff locks available, like lockrite etc.

post 1 - what's being referred to as Nuisance on on-road drives are diff-locks (the full mechanical type that are always working). MLD doesn't work all the time, only activated below 25kmph, when there is a 100 rpm difference between the wheels on either side of the MLD.

post 6 - same as before, selectable lockers have no impact on onroad drivability

post 26 - speaks about the full mechanical type of lockers, like LockRite, not MLD.

POST 89 - again speaking about some Auto Locker not MLD.

This MLD is a manufacturer OEM part standard on Scorpio pickups exported to Australia. That said, it is engineered for this particular vehicle, and has gone through the rigorous manufacturer test cycles.
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Old 28th March 2013, 18:30   #159
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Default re: Marengo: Rocky Beige Scorpio mHawk 4WD & MLD. 55,555 kms up!

Thanks 1100D sir, that certainly clears up the air!

One more thing if you can help me with:

What is the capacity (ampere-hrs) of the battery and alternator that come on the VLX?

I think you are running the stock alternator, right?

Thanks.
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Old 28th March 2013, 23:32   #160
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Default re: Marengo: Rocky Beige Scorpio mHawk 4WD & MLD. 55,555 kms up!

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Thanks 1100D sir,
Please keep the "Sir" out of this Sir!


Quote:
Originally Posted by TheTeacher View Post

What is the capacity (ampere-hrs) of the battery and alternator that come on the VLX?

I think you are running the stock alternator, right?

Thanks.

The battery is a 85D26R from Amaron, this battery I am told is designed for the Start-Stop system (Micro hybrid). It has a Ah rating of 85. Running on stock alternator.
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Old 29th March 2013, 12:56   #161
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Default re: Marengo: Rocky Beige Scorpio mHawk 4WD & MLD. 55,555 kms up!

Thanks 1100D. So I presume the alternator would be around the same AH or a little more. Any chance of finding out the actual rating of it?
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Old 30th March 2013, 20:54   #162
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Default re: Marengo: Rocky Beige Scorpio mHawk 4WD & MLD. 80000 kms up!

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Thanks 1100D. So I presume the alternator would be around the same AH or a little more. Any chance of finding out the actual rating of it?
The rating is 90 amp. Just a little curious as to why you ask this?

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Originally Posted by 1100D View Post
Had the 50k service milestone come-up at the end of December. The usual service only costed Rs 1236 in terms of labour and Rs 124 by way of the Sock Absorber Bushing. Total damage Rs 1360.

So total maintenance expenses from start till 50k is Rs 33554. Translates to around 67 paise per Km.

However what these figures do not convey is the immense fun this vehicle is capable of imparting.

The 55k service was sandwitched in between the ABS issue workshop visits. It was done FOC (Free of cost). So the total maintenance expenses (only the one's the vehicle demanded, keeping tyre changes etc out) till date remained at Rs 33554. But that was to change substantially today!!

Had mentioned earlier that the rear left power window had become a bit tempermental. Even the clutch feel was a little suspect, given the mHawk Scorpio's reputation, did not wish to leave anything to chance. Took Marengo to the workshop.

Had a substantial addition of Rs 9797 to the previous figure, taking it up to Rs 43351, odo stands at 56574. An updated cost per km figure of 76 paise per km.

The figure would have gone up even higher, but a lot of stuff was covered under the Mahindra shield warranty, including the clutch and pressure plates.

Here is how

Front Brake pads needed replacement, and its coming up roughly the same time as the last set, so boils down to the kind of traffic Marengo endures, as well as my driving style, which probably will not improve after so many years behind the wheel!

The rear Brake shoes were foil thin. There was a teeny weeny minor leak on the rear wheel cylinder.

The vehicle was originally driven into the workshop to get the clutch system checked as the pedal feel was a little sticky. Hoisting the vehicle, a little trace of oil from the bell housing was evident. GB was opened and it was found that the source was again the concentric slave cylinder, but this time, it had sprayed oil liberally on all the other components, mainly the facing and the pressure plate, which actually helped me to get these replaced under the warranty. Clutch plate had some life left but only some. So here goes the breakup of stuff

The parts charged for (4% VAT included)
  • KIT Pads BIL - 4825
  • Kit lined Shoe - 2985
  • NEF Crankshaft bearing - 178
  • Clevis Pin Pedal - 20
  • Nyloc nut - 16
  • Kit O ring clutch tube - 13

Total for parts replaced Rs 8037

Labour = 1197
Consumables (including 13.5% VAT) - Petrol, brake oil etc = Rs 563.

Total charge Rs 9797.

Beyond this, the following were replaced under extended warranty

  • Clutch driven plate - 3003
  • Concentric slave cylinder - 2360
  • clutch cover assembly - 2052
  • Rear Power window motor (Left) - 1735
  • Clutch Master cylinder assembly - 1428
  • Wheel cylinder assembly - 874

Of these the clutch cover, clutch plate and the wheel-cylinder would have definitely come under my expenses sooner or later (a total of around Rs 6k)

So in the end, feels good that the company does takes care of expenses, especially those caused out of replacement parts.

However there is something to think about.

For example, now I can say all the power window motors on Marengo had to be changed atleast once within these 2.5 yrs of ownership. At the same time, I have an almost 9yr old Ford Ikon 1.6 nxt (not regarded the best in terms of reliability), none of the power window motors, or switches have failed on it. Even the cabin lights have never fused.

But still, am more confident and comfortable with Mahindra, they have the ability to get me up and atleast running from any corner of India. That is a great assurance.
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Old 31st March 2013, 12:35   #163
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Default re: Marengo: Rocky Beige Scorpio mHawk 4WD & MLD. 80000 kms up!

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The rating is 90 amp. Just a little curious as to why you ask this?
I am planning to install some running lights, and wanted to estimate the electrical load vs what the stock alternator is able to provide. Thanks for the info.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1100D View Post
The figure would have gone up even higher, but a lot of stuff was covered under the Mahindra shield warranty, including the clutch and pressure plates.

So in the end, feels good that the company does takes care of expenses, especially those caused out of replacement parts.

But still, am more confident and comfortable with Mahindra, they have the ability to get me up and at least running from any corner of India. That is a great assurance.
While the design / manufacture is not as robust as it should be, what is heartening is that the company stands behind its product and warranty. This and the ubiquitous service available make this very attractive for me. Thank you for these comments. Your posts are always very helpful for a prospective buyer!
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Old 2nd May 2013, 22:42   #164
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Default re: Marengo: Rocky Beige Scorpio mHawk 4WD & MLD. 80000 kms up!

Time to update this space!

Marengo has added another feather in his cap. Has successfully managed to conquer the highest point in the state of West Bengal (India), namely Sandakphu (almost 12k feet), and come back without even a hint of a sneeze.

Read more about it here, if interested.

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/travel...territory.html (Sandakphu Phalut Kolakham - Unleashing a Mahindra Scorpio on Land Rover territory)

Here it can be seen basking against the pristine view of the Khanchenjungha peak that is a signature of the place called Sandakphu.

Marengo: Rocky Beige Mahindra Scorpio mHawk 4WD & MLD. 4 years & 1 lakh kms up!-img_1065-copy.jpg

Sandakphu being a predominant trekking destination with vehicular traffic limited to prehistoric LandRovers, Marengo had to climb through some of the roughest and trickiest roads to drive on.

Marengo: Rocky Beige Mahindra Scorpio mHawk 4WD & MLD. 4 years & 1 lakh kms up!-img_0929.jpg

A exotic parking spot at another foresty offroad destination - Kolakham
Marengo: Rocky Beige Mahindra Scorpio mHawk 4WD & MLD. 4 years & 1 lakh kms up!-img_1103.jpg

The New Maxxis Bravo 771 AT had their baptism by the fire..er Rocks. Emerged victorious,

Marengo: Rocky Beige Mahindra Scorpio mHawk 4WD & MLD. 4 years & 1 lakh kms up!-img_1154.jpg

Marengo: Rocky Beige Mahindra Scorpio mHawk 4WD & MLD. 4 years & 1 lakh kms up!-img_1156.jpg


Since most of the posts on this thread has dealt with problems encountered, the costs involved, the headaches earned. Happy to say that since the last post, till date, standing at 59,500 kms on the odo, there is nothing, absolutely nothing, not even a squeek (Only seat rattles that was part of it from month 1).

Though the elapsed kms since last post is nothing, of the order of about 3000 kms. But if one looks at the quality of each one of those 3000 kms driven on, its really commendable.

Keep it up Marengo!


Marengo: Rocky Beige Mahindra Scorpio mHawk 4WD & MLD. 4 years & 1 lakh kms up!-img_07072.jpg
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Old 8th May 2013, 23:40   #165
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Default re: Marengo: Rocky Beige Scorpio mHawk 4WD & MLD. 80000 kms up!

Marengo had been to the workshop today for its scheduled 60k service at an Odo reading of 59963 (crossed 60k as I type this).

There were no signs of uncanny behaviour, just a scheduled pitstop.

The 60k service is one where most oils get replaced (Engine oil, Differential oil at both ends). The monetary damages were substantial with respect to what it has seen till date.

The maintenance expenses at start was Rs 43351, it has been upped by Rs 10283 to Rs 53635. The maintenance cost per km inched up substantially to 89 paise per km. However, till the next major milestone at 80k, this figure is likely to level out to former levels.

Here's a breakup of the expense in this installment, should anyone be interested.

60k Service items
  • Fuel Filter - 1878
  • Maximile Ultracool 7 liters - 1386
  • Maximile Elite 3.6 liters - 1320
  • Maximile FEO 6 liters - 1708
  • Maximile Universe Oil Filter - 166
  • consumables - 160
Total Service items 6618


Additional Parts replaced

  • Washer Copper M14 - 5 Nos - 50
  • Seat Spring - 2 nos - 194
  • Bush Stabiliser Bar front - 2 nos - 137
  • Bush Stabiliser Bar rear - 2 nos - 96
Total additional Parts replacement - 477


Total Parts + consumables = 7095


Labour Charges
  • Labour (60k) - 2850.57
  • Wash - 337
Total Labour - 3187.57


Final Bill = 10282.57


Found the Labour for the 60k service to be on the high side with respect to the other items.

However, given the terrain Marengo has seen from the last checkpoint all is forgiven!

As of now, Marengo continues marauding everything in its path (as it is seen doing it to a LandRover in the picture below at Sandakphu, a place usually considered as LandRover territory, with the majestic Mt Khanchenjunga peak in the backdrop)


Marengo: Rocky Beige Mahindra Scorpio mHawk 4WD & MLD. 4 years & 1 lakh kms up!-img_1043.jpg
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