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Old 9th February 2013, 16:49   #121
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Default Re: Marengo- Rocky Beige Scorpio mHawk 4WD- Only one in India till now (Updated with

1100D remember those climb down with me in the backseat of marengo?? That offroading at Pandua was just awesome. Enjoyed each moment of that trip. And regarding the tyres: why don't you check out for MRF wanderer?? Have seen these tyres perform quite well on the road atleast. In my friends tavera. Tyre noise is not too much. Grip seemed good enough. Do check on them too incase you're not upsizing. Also there is the Apollo Hawkz A/T. Do post in further on the tyre change and upsize. I just considered the options available and am not an expert like you in offroad tyres. Why don't you check with Indo Radial Club. Minku Agarwal can provide some links I guess.
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Old 9th February 2013, 22:18   #122
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Default Re: Marengo- Rocky Beige Scorpio mHawk 4WD- Only one in India till now (Updated with

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Originally Posted by tacho9000 View Post
1100D remember those climb down with me in the backseat of marengo?? That offroading at Pandua was just awesome. Enjoyed each moment of that trip. And regarding the tyres: why don't you check out for MRF wanderer?? Have seen these tyres perform quite well on the road atleast. In my friends tavera. Tyre noise is not too much. Grip seemed good enough. Do check on them too incase you're not upsizing. Also there is the Apollo Hawkz A/T. Do post in further on the tyre change and upsize. I just considered the options available and am not an expert like you in offroad tyres. Why don't you check with Indo Radial Club. Minku Agarwal can provide some links I guess.
Yes remember everything!

When speeds are high on the expressway, little imperfections on the tyres tell in a big way. I am talking 3500+ rpm 5th gear speeds. What was the highest speed you experienced in the Tavera?

Read about the Apollo Hawkz A/T here

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/long-t...ml#post2955489 (Mitsubishi Pajero: The Dark Horse comes home)

This, I guess, is actually a problem with Indian manufactured tyres for the domestic market, not necessarily Apollo. Quality control not needing to be enforced enough, infact not "built" into the product. The target market (mainly commercial UV's) dont care. Consistency is also found lacking, You never know, you could get one horrible sample out of 9 good ones. I could probably try my luck out, but cant afford the multiple follow-ups and resultant hassles, should something go wrong.

In general the tyre shops also say that Indian tyres require on an average more weight to be balanced properly. In many cases to proper balance is not achieved. But material, longevity wise, they all go on and on and on.

Minku though very helpful is sometimes constrained by his business compulsions!
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Old 10th February 2013, 12:13   #123
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Default Re: Marengo- Rocky Beige Scorpio mHawk 4WD- Only one in India till now (Updated with

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Yes remember everything!

When speeds are high on the expressway, little imperfections on the tyres tell in a big way. I am talking 3500+ rpm 5th gear speeds. What was the highest speed you experienced in the Tavera?

This, I guess, is actually a problem with Indian manufactured tyres for the domestic market, not necessarily Apollo. Quality control not needing to be enforced enough, infact not "built" into the product. The target market (mainly commercial UV's) dont care. Consistency is also found lacking, You never know, you could get one horrible sample out of 9 good ones. I could probably try my luck out, but cant afford the multiple follow-ups and resultant hassles, should something go wrong.

In general the tyre shops also say that Indian tyres require on an average more weight to be balanced properly. In many cases to proper balance is not achieved. But material, longevity wise, they all go on and on and on.

Minku though very helpful is sometimes constrained by his business compulsions!
Those words about Minku are very true but just for the sake of trying we can try via BHPian blackasta who has very good relations with Minku IIRC. And the tyre saga with indian tyres is all very true. We tried taking the wanderers till 120kmph only couldn't do more on account of traffic but they held on quite good enough. Infact one instance there was hard braking at 80kmph around and the tavera held on to it's line more or less. Just for your information at the last OTR at Pandua BHPian sinhsha had come with his brother with whom while talking after breakfast at Azad Hind Dhaba,Gopalpur have come to know that he can source Michelin tyres at slightly lower rates compared to the market prices. He also did mention that the tyres will need to be mounted though once supplied. Maybe you can contact BHPian sinsha for further information. If his number is needed PM me I'll forward them to you.
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Old 10th February 2013, 15:59   #124
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Default Re: Marengo- Rocky Beige Scorpio mHawk 4WD- Only one in India till now (Updated with

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Those words about Minku are very true but just for the sake of trying we can try via BHPian blackasta who has very good relations with Minku IIRC. And the tyre saga with indian tyres is all very true. We tried taking the wanderers till 120kmph only couldn't do more on account of traffic but they held on quite good enough. Infact one instance there was hard braking at 80kmph around and the tavera held on to it's line more or less. Just for your information at the last OTR at Pandua BHPian sinhsha had come with his brother with whom while talking after breakfast at Azad Hind Dhaba,Gopalpur have come to know that he can source Michelin tyres at slightly lower rates compared to the market prices. He also did mention that the tyres will need to be mounted though once supplied. Maybe you can contact BHPian sinsha for further information. If his number is needed PM me I'll forward them to you.
Our association with Indo radial club goes back decades and till recently all our tyres used to be from them. So need no help with Minku.

Regarding the Michelin tyres, rather than the rates, is there a way he can help source Michelin LTX (LTX is not "Latitude Cross") in 235/70 R16 (or 255/65 R16) size. Would need a confirmation that its not "Latitude cross". I have already wasted a saturday morning waiting for the wrong tyres at the Michelin dealer.
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Old 10th February 2013, 17:52   #125
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Default Re: Marengo- Rocky Beige Scorpio mHawk 4WD- Only one in India till now (Updated with

@1100D: My Bridgestone Dueler HTs are at 85,000km, without issues. Still got decent tread depth left, good to last for 15-20k km more. Agreed I haven't been off-roading like you do, but then I am still impressed by how well they have lasted.
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Old 10th February 2013, 19:13   #126
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Default Re: Marengo- Rocky Beige Scorpio mHawk 4WD- Only one in India till now (Updated with

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@1100D: My Bridgestone Dueler HTs are at 85,000km, without issues. Still got decent tread depth left, good to last for 15-20k km more.
That's the best tire life I have heard with these tires on a Scorpio, no wonder because I know how you use your Scorpio. Just goes on to show, if things are done the right way, what difference it can make.

Usually, when we test the cars for tire life, they last at the max 50000 kms. While it is a different story, they are run at GVW all the time, but still.

Spike
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Old 10th February 2013, 22:57   #127
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85K:O
My Scorpio has run 44.5K on Michelin Latitude Cross and they are almost EOL wont run more than 5K kms.
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Old 11th February 2013, 10:30   #128
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Default Re: Marengo- Rocky Beige Scorpio mHawk 4WD- Only one in India till now (Updated with

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Regarding the Michelin tyres, rather than the rates, is there a way he can help source Michelin LTX (LTX is not "Latitude Cross") in 235/70 R16 (or 255/65 R16) size. Would need a confirmation that its not "Latitude cross". I have already wasted a saturday morning waiting for the wrong tyres at the Michelin dealer.
This is one part where I think might be possible but first we need to take the due permission and coordination from BHPian sinhsha. As his brother told us about the deal. Let me check with him regarding those Michelin LTX tyres and then he can check with his brother. I do understand Michelin LTX is more hardcore tyres compared to the Lattitude Cross which I have seen on the gypsy at Pandua. I will try to get you the contacts. But if need be do ring me up for any number. Thank you.
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Old 11th February 2013, 13:44   #129
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Default Re: Marengo- Rocky Beige Scorpio mHawk 4WD- Only one in India till now (Updated with

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@1100D: My Bridgestone Dueler HTs are at 85,000km, without issues. Still got decent tread depth left, good to last for 15-20k km more. Agreed I haven't been off-roading like you do, but then I am still impressed by how well they have lasted.
As far as I know, your car gets more highway runs and has accumlated the kms that way. Mine in contrast, see's more of Kolkata roads, most of it in state of permanent disrepair. Moreover Marengo on an average takes substantially less time to dispatch his commute duties, which also means good amount of cornering, braking, dodging and what not. Having said this, the Yoko Geolandars lasted (and is still going) at over 50k and its quite commendable for an A/T tyre. Besides, on my Ikon, I cannot make the tyres last more than 25-28k max and not very upset about it either. So tyre life has not been an issue.

But, after the first week of driving around on the Dueller and then switching to Geolandars, with a firm option given to me of switching back within 7 days (I actually paid after 7 days), I did not wish to switch back at all.

Coincidentally it was raining the day the switch was made and the difference was immediately apparent. Went back the same roads. There was one Kutcha (unpaved) road where Marengo had gotten stuck the day before and needed 4wd to extract itself out. The next day after the rains, on that same stretch, was on 2wd and was never stuck (even from stop at the same place). The ride was better, grip was better, a little less communication from the steering but thats it.

Apart from the fragile sidewall, I do not have anything else on the Yoko Geo. Even on slippery wet rocks, the Geo's grip well. A different matter that one is always worried about not getting a rock to puncture the sidewall.

However, Dueller A/T would have been fine with me. Drove a Toyota Hi-lux with worn out Dueller A/T tyres and it was fabulous. That Hi-Lux now runs on Yoko Geo.



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That's the best tire life I have heard with these tires on a Scorpio, no wonder because I know how you use your Scorpio. Just goes on to show, if things are done the right way, what difference it can make.

Usually, when we test the cars for tire life, they last at the max 50000 kms. While it is a different story, they are run at GVW all the time, but still.

Spike
So I got more than that, maybe not with GVW but with real world abuse on Tarmac (With a very cautious footing on other surfaces)!

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85K:O
My Scorpio has run 44.5K on Michelin Latitude Cross and they are almost EOL wont run more than 5K kms.
Well, what are the signs you got of the EOL being near? For me its treadwear and lack of wet grip and ABS kicking in for most rapid braking sessions), one tyre has a superficial sidewall cut (but holding) ,besides one tyre has gone slightly oblong

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This is one part where I think might be possible but first we need to take the due permission and coordination from BHPian sinhsha. As his brother told us about the deal. Let me check with him regarding those Michelin LTX tyres and then he can check with his brother. I do understand Michelin LTX is more hardcore tyres compared to the Lattitude Cross which I have seen on the gypsy at Pandua. I will try to get you the contacts. But if need be do ring me up for any number. Thank you.

LTX is not more hardcore than Latitude cross. Its two different horses for two different purposes. The Gypsy that you were referring to belongs to Vivek Arora and I saw it take one of the sandy inclines and have made my inference without going into the specifics of it.
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Old 11th February 2013, 14:53   #130
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Default Re: Marengo- Rocky Beige Scorpio mHawk 4WD- Only one in India till now (Updated with

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Well, what are the signs you got of the EOL being near? For me its treadwear and lack of wet grip and ABS kicking in for most rapid braking sessions), one tyre has a superficial sidewall cut (but holding) ,besides one tyre has gone slightly oblong




LTX is not more hardcore than Latitude cross. Its two different horses for two different purposes. The Gypsy that you were referring to belongs to Vivek Arora and I saw it take one of the sandy inclines and have made my inference without going into the specifics of it.
Tread wear is the primary sign.
Also LTX is more robust than Latitude Cross,Latitude Cross have a soft compound,i have had 2 major Punctures While driving through Himalayas.
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Old 11th February 2013, 15:00   #131
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Default Re: Marengo- Rocky Beige Scorpio mHawk 4WD- Only one in India till now (Updated with

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That's the best tire life I have heard with these tires on a Scorpio.
Hariya's OE BS Duelers were replaced at 81k kms last week at Gurgaon and I have now chosen 25570R16 Geolandars as his new shoes. They had enough tread for another 8-10k kms but I replaced them since I wanted to.

And yes, the Geolandars are really good tires. Weak sidewalls? My recent trip to HP saw some very bad roads/trails and I ve been without any damage so far. I ll see how they measure up in the future.
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Old 11th February 2013, 18:06   #132
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Default Re: Marengo- Rocky Beige Scorpio mHawk 4WD- Only one in India till now (Updated with

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LTX is not more hardcore than Latitude cross. Its two different horses for two different purposes. The Gypsy that you were referring to belongs to Vivek Arora and I saw it take one of the sandy inclines and have made my inference without going into the specifics of it.
Agreed. It is a bit like carthorse tyre and racing horse tyre. Same constitution but different approach and offcourse different life in terms of abuse handling capacity. The LTX will definitely be better where roadholding is required in poor road condition but Lattitude Cross will be better for more highway compared to offroading. Don't get me wrong but with regards to life off the beaten track where I personally think LTX will be better compared to Lattitude Cross. Had talked with Vivek Arora last thursday and even he was of the same opinion with regard to offroading and onroad performance. By the way did you check at M.D.Tradelinks at Lake Town. They just might have some tyres of your choice available because last time I had gone about 6months back had seen Yokohama Geolander at their shop. Did you check with them.

Regards,
Subhra
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Old 11th February 2013, 22:56   #133
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Default Re: Marengo- Rocky Beige Scorpio mHawk 4WD- Only one in India till now (Updated with

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And yes, the Geolandars are really good tires. Weak sidewalls? My recent trip to HP saw some very bad roads/trails and I ve been without any damage so far. I ll see how they measure up in the future.
They will serve you well. Just take sharp rocks, pavement and jutting manhole covers with a little bit of caution. One Geolandar gave up after the tyre grazed a slightly pointed (not sharp) rock on a surface like in the pics below.

Marengo: Rocky Beige Mahindra Scorpio mHawk 4WD & MLD. 4 years & 1 lakh kms up!-img_36731.jpg

Marengo: Rocky Beige Mahindra Scorpio mHawk 4WD & MLD. 4 years & 1 lakh kms up!-dsc09335.jpg



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By the way did you check at M.D.Tradelinks at Lake Town. They just might have some tyres of your choice available because last time I had gone about 6months back had seen Yokohama Geolander at their shop. Did you check with them.

Regards,
Subhra
Spoken to them. Their A/T options are limited to Indian manufactured tyres. Procuring Geolandar is not at all an issue and the best bet regarding that is Indo Radial.

Now reading the other thread, have also added the Dampers (or suspension upgrade) to the list of things to be added!
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Old 12th February 2013, 11:52   #134
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Default Re: Marengo- Rocky Beige Scorpio mHawk 4WD- Only one in India till now (Updated with

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...have also added the Dampers (or suspension upgrade) to the list of things to be added!
Had an email exchange with Red Rooster Performance regarding the TEIN suspension upgrade for the Scorpio.

1. The upgrade includes coil springs and dampers for the rear suspension only. The front suspension (torsion bar and dampers) cannot be upgraded by them. They can only upgrade front suspension on 2wd Scorpios with coil springs.

2. It's a TEIN Street Basic upgrade, not the SuperStreet suspension with electronic control of the dampers to adjust ride height & damping force.

3. All other parts of the suspension will continue to remain stock, incuding link/Panhard rods, stabiliser bars and bushes.

4. Suspension travel and ride height will continue to be the same, and no alteration of the existing mountings is required for installing the coil and damper upgrade.

5. Just the rear suspension upgrade costs Rs.34,000 plus Rs.2,500 for installing in Delhi through a third party installer.

6. They have not installed just the rear suspension on a 4wd Scorpio before, though I was given references of 2 customers (none of them located in my (or your) part of the country), who had a TEIN Basic suspension upgrade done for their Scorpios.

I have no way of test driving a Scorpio with the basic upgrade and see how it performs, and I have no idea (nor do RRP) about how much of a performance/handling improvement only a rear suspension upgrade will offer. If you do decide to carry out the upgrade, Anirban, I'd like to first take a test drive of your Scorpio before I plonk that kind of money for the upgrade. You owe it to me anyway!
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Old 12th February 2013, 13:39   #135
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Default Re: Marengo- Rocky Beige Scorpio mHawk 4WD- Only one in India till now (Updated with

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1. The upgrade includes coil springs and dampers for the rear suspension only. The front suspension (torsion bar and dampers) cannot be upgraded by them. They can only upgrade front suspension on 2wd Scorpios with coil springs.

2. It's a TEIN Street Basic upgrade, not the SuperStreet suspension with electronic control of the dampers to adjust ride height & damping force.

Anirban, I'd like to first take a test drive of your Scorpio before I plonk that kind of money for the upgrade. You owe it to me anyway!
If the basic upgrade does not allow change of parameters, then it makes little sense to change what has already been optimised for loaded condition.

If one could change the "fast bump" for the rough road and revert it back for proper corner carving, then it would have made some sense.

Presently the shocks seem to transmit some of the load into the sprung system and that alone helps the cornering abilities (whatever there is). To me, spring stiffness and the damper parameters is what differentiates a "better riding" Safari from a "better lane changing" Scorpio.

However, one solution is to load the rear up with passengers and luggage on a long trip and watch the rear settle down drastically!!
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