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Old 4th January 2011, 12:33   #631
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Default Re: Mahindra Thar Launch on 21st December 2010. Update: Price on Page 2!

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Originally Posted by DKG View Post
There's another very interesting story I must share with you guys here as it proves a point relevant to our current discussion.
===============
You know what one purist buddy told me when I told him to join me on the Himalayan expedition? He said if we aren't offroading I'd rather drive an Innova than drive the Jeep all the way up !
VFR is one of the best bikes to own! You are lucky to have one in your garage.

And yes Thar will be like VFR (except for fit and finish lol), it will do most of the stuff in relatively good comfort. Thar Mdi will be like the latest classic bullet and Gypsy will be like, hmmmm BMW 650. Ok let me stop the comparison business now.

And in real world your purist buddy is 100% correct. Ask Rudra he has decided that all his future himalayan trips will be in the comfort of an Innova or a Scorpio and NOT on a hard top gypsy.
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Old 4th January 2011, 12:39   #632
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Default Re: Mahindra Thar Launch on 21st December 2010. Update: Price on Page 2!

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Originally Posted by SPIKE ARRESTOR View Post
Samurai, you have driven and seen 521. You may have noticed, it only had a snorkel (temporary) built into it and nothing special was done for water wading. The snorkel is doing its duty on 521 for a few reasons other than water fording:-
a) NVH
b) Intake pressure depression
c) Power delivery
d) Smoke
e) Establishing Air filter / oil filter / oil service intervals
f) Oil analysis (Millipore values)

This is for our understanding only. I hope that pretty much answers your query on water fording for Thar.

Spike
In other words, had the 521 entered the raging river at AKC, what would have been the damage? We both were there, so we know how much water we are talking about. Keep in mind that all the Jeeps and Gypsies came out of there without any water damage, at least none that I know about.
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Old 4th January 2011, 12:43   #633
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Default Re: Mahindra Thar Launch on 21st December 2010. Update: Price on Page 2!

Jaggu,

I fully agree with your fist 6 points. This was the reason for my decision on Thar.
It is over priced for the fit and finish and the quality of materials used.

- Sreejesh
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Old 4th January 2011, 13:18   #634
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Default Re: Mahindra Thar Launch on 21st December 2010. Update: Price on Page 2!

Since no one invited me to go see the thar

i went myself to go have a look at it.

below are just my personal views as a customizer and an offroader

the Adventure Model:
this vehicle is for posers,
looks horrible to me and has so much going on that theres no room to customize it
sometimes mahindra needs to realise that simple is just better,
even a chrome bullbar, one knock on a rock and she will start chipping
cannot be touched up
Again the winch just makes the entire front droop down and from the side the entire profile looks ugly
from what i see, i think the front has very very little articulation,

the normal crde:
looks way better
lots of scope to improvise
again restriction on weight that can be added to the front cause of the ifs
mechanically drivetrain is superb
front suspension is gonna let people down.(i have a scorpio fully modded for offroading hence i know)
Also on a stock model i think 31 inch tyres will foul with the fenders under articulation, actually maybe not since the front wont articulate that much.
my scorpio has a front suspension lift by the way, but thats eating into my tyres. not recomended
fit and finish of the body is really bad, thumbs down to mahindra for that.

this said and done
ill be starting work on a thar this month, spedy's that is
hopefully bring out the best in her
dkg sir, thank you for the confidence showed in me
shall incorporate ur ideas as well
just wait and watch i say

btw, mahindra should send me one to test
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Old 4th January 2011, 13:44   #635
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Default Re: Mahindra Thar Launch on 21st December 2010. Update: Price on Page 2!

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@speedy:
For seven lakhs plus you get the basic soft top with side facing seats. At the most you will use it as a runabout? How about the safety of your belongings and keeping the dust out of the interiors? You will want a hard top. This will add a about 60K to the price and whole lot of headache with the Tinker unless mahindra offers OEM version.
The car in Bombay individual reg is for 7.01 lakh and for company reg is 7.46 lakhs. I have booked my car.
The vehicle is aimed as being a lifestyle vehicle and not a first car atleast in Bombay. I mean more like a night drive or sunday drive car. If i every told my family memebers we would go for a trip to pune in a jeep, i'd be the only one in the Jeep,They would be in the other cars with the luggage. I am sure there are people already in place to clean the existing cars, so just one car gets added. Even cars like the E class get dust in the interiors, does not mean we dont use them. No Sir i do not want a hardtop, but for the people who would want to have one, either spend time at the tinkers like you mentioned or wait for M&M to launch it.

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Originally Posted by 4x4addict View Post
Add the AC? If your friend and family complains about having to sit sideways on a bench seat, you will want to change the seating configuration to front facing rear seats. This will accomodate two people at the rear and some stuff. However the entry/exit will be painful as the front seats don't flip like in the gypsy with front facing seats.
My friends allready want it, but i am not getting the jeep as a daily drive, its being bought for a purpose and hence do not want the AC. There wont be complains of sitting sidways as i used to have a Gypsy ages ago, so they are used to it. In the Thar they would have to make do with lyeing down if they please as the rear seats will be coming off.
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Old 4th January 2011, 14:20   #636
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Default Re: Mahindra Thar Launch on 21st December 2010. Update: Price on Page 2!

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Originally Posted by Samurai View Post
In other words, had the 521 entered the raging river at AKC, what would have been the damage? We both were there, so we know how much water we are talking about. Keep in mind that all the Jeeps and Gypsies came out of there without any water damage, at least none that I know about.
Yes, I remember! 521 would have come out unscathed.

Spike
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Old 4th January 2011, 14:26   #637
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Default Re: Mahindra Thar Launch on 21st December 2010. Update: Price on Page 2!

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Yes, I remember! 521 would have come out unscathed.

Spike
Happy Birthday Spikeee!

So does that mean you guys have done water fording tests? Coz with scorpio's thats a perennial problem. Hence checking.
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Old 4th January 2011, 15:35   #638
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Default Re: Mahindra Thar Launch on 21st December 2010. Update: Price on Page 2!

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Happy Birthday Spikeee!

So does that mean you guys have done water fording tests? Coz with scorpio's thats a perennial problem. Hence checking.
Thank you Jaggu bhai for the Bday wishes, I appreciate!

Yes we have done water fording, though without a snorkel. OK, as its my Bday, chalo let me give you a hint, on Thar's fording capability (stock). Army vehicles are tested for water fording in two conditions 1. Shallow 2. Deep. Thar's fording depth (stock) is an arithmetic mean of both these depths. I cannot disclose values due to obvious reasons. If people know about these depths fording depth can be ascertained.

Spike
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Old 4th January 2011, 16:31   #639
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Default Re: Mahindra Thar Launch on 21st December 2010. Update: Price on Page 2!

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Originally Posted by SPIKE ARRESTOR View Post
Yes we have done water fording, though without a snorkel. OK, as its my Bday, chalo let me give you a hint, on Thar's fording capability (stock). Army vehicles are tested for water fording in two conditions 1. Shallow 2. Deep. Thar's fording depth (stock) is an arithmetic mean of both these depths.
Which is indeed a good news and thanks for the bday treat
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Old 4th January 2011, 18:05   #640
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Default Re: Mahindra Thar Launch on 21st December 2010. Update: Price on Page 2!

Just back from a showroom visit in Gurgaon, to take a look at the Thar CRDe. Some observations:
1. It is a big step up from the previous generation jeeps in terms of refinement and finish, but it is still miles behind today's exacting standards.
2. The ergonomics of this vehicle are JUST ABOUT acceptable.
3. To successfully sell this in somewhat decent numbers in North India, AC with HT from company, is an absolute MUST!
4. Train the dealership staff! Heard a dealer boy telling a prospective customer (Jatt Risky after Whiskey types) - "Sir, this vehicle is for off-road. It is 4 Wheel Drive - Very good for high speed on highways." I was appalled!!!!
5. Fire your corporate communications head! Evidently the guy knows nothing about disseminating information. The dealership guys have zilch knowledge, more than 6.5ish Lacs On-Road and 2 months waiting.
6. Why not also at least enable Urban dealers to sell the MDI version. So what if it is not BS4? Most of us would anyway succeed in getting the vehicle registered elsewhere!

I'd be very sad to see this vehicle NOT becoming a success.
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Old 4th January 2011, 18:08   #641
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Default Re: Mahindra Thar Launch on 21st December 2010. Update: Price on Page 2!

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So sometimes when you consider real world scenarios a compromise solution (if it will please my purist buddies to call the Thar so) is sometimes the more sensible decision.

You know what one purist buddy told me when I told him to join me on the Himalayan expedition? He said if we aren't offroading I'd rather drive an Innova than drive the Jeep all the way up !
Hi DKG,

The Thar is the Thar. I wouldn't say it is a compromise. It was designed to go "fast" and Emission Norms compelled it to carry a Front Axle, albeit, an IFS.

To project this a the Ultimate Off-Roader's Dream vehicle and what we have been waiting for, is taking this very very far.

We have collectively stated, what we wished for in an Off-Road Vehicle, this only Looks like it.

One of the Key Features is Modify or Upgrade the Vehicle, this vehicle has lost it due to the IFS.

Those who wish to put their money will do so for various reasons, but they should be well aware of what the system comprises of, and what are its drawbacks.

And I think this decision will surely help them, we are not bashing the Thar CRDe's off-road capabilities, we are discussing the Front Suspension and Steering System, which many have seen to fail in 4WD Scorpios.

There are no trails in INDIA, INDIA, is the biggest trail, toughest trail, that is precisely why even today, M&M makes Solid Axles (Dead or Live), which sell more than their IFS (Live or Dead) counterparts.

Regards,

Arka

Last edited by ex670c : 4th January 2011 at 18:14.
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Old 4th January 2011, 18:21   #642
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Default Re: Mahindra Thar Launch on 21st December 2010. Update: Price on Page 2!

Arka,

Did you off road with the Thar yet?

- Hobbes
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Old 4th January 2011, 18:37   #643
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Default Re: Mahindra Thar Launch on 21st December 2010. Update: Price on Page 2!

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Arka,

Did you off road with the Thar yet?

- Hobbes
Hi Hobbes,

I had a short drive, during the Mumbai OTR.

Regards,

Arka
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Old 4th January 2011, 19:51   #644
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Default Re: Mahindra Thar Launch on 21st December 2010. Update: Price on Page 2!

arka, exactly my thoughts,
even a gypsy's stock articulation is quite less, but then again i have the option to put diff locks in the rear and in the FRONT

the thar, well rear lockers is all we can do
and for the thar to perform well, id say these lockers on the rear to some extent can compensate for the front articulation

As a customizer i have alot of problems with the front ifs
major being that any weight added in the front and mid portions will add to the vehicle stooping low and this cannot be rectified within a small budget

id still prefer the ngcs 550 with an engine transplant
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Old 4th January 2011, 19:58   #645
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Default Re: Mahindra Thar Launch on 21st December 2010. Update: Price on Page 2!

Just had the "previlage" of seeing the Thar in flesh at the Sterling Gurgaon Showroom. On first sight I was happy to atleast see what has already been made into an Icon here at T-Bhp !!

As pointed out by roy_libran. The staff has Z E R O knowledge of the vehicle. The fit & finish is definately below par to say the least.

The vehicle provided it drives & handles well can ONLY SELL in the North IF it comes with Airconditioning & a Hard top. The weather here is extreme. Extreme heat, extreme cold like nowadays, heavy rains (if & when it rains) - with these conditions a given which eccentric person would drive it out of choice ? Maybe the recently- got - rich farmer at best. Though I even doubt that. Coz he will pay 2 Lacs premium & buy the Fortuner !!

So who are we targeting in the cities ?? The vehicle has potential to be a Wrangler (at least partly so), but would take a fair amount of work & time, not to forget $$$

The seats are quite uncomfortable. The steering angle was weird, the stock switches do not seem sturdy at all. The Bull bar I would much rather have in powder coated black. The tail gat does not shut properly. The handle was ready to fall off. The front door handle was falling off. There is no possibility of putting captain seats at the back, as the front seat does not fold forward.

The list of negatives can go on & on !!! :-( I had gone with my chequebook, but did not book one. The dealer had no information on the accessory package. Did not know if the hard top is going to be available. Did not know if the company will sell a factory fitted A/C.

In other words, after a test drive IF I buy it, I would budget atleast 2 lacs to bring it to the shape I want it to be in. Is M&M customisation department going to provide an option on this ??

Interesting jeep but not well put together. If I can find a fabricator to build on this - I might still buy one, just because I want one.

Would be keenly watching what xtreme power does with the Thar !! Do keep us updated Allan.





Cheers

Last edited by Ricky_63 : 4th January 2011 at 20:00.
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