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Old 24th December 2010, 18:00   #16
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Default re: Unreasonable dilemma! Thar Vs Gypsy! Mostly resolved Page 9.

Oh I think it is getting very interesting, so I also thought of putting my view point in it.
For me you should asses yourself first that what you want from vehicle and what is your adventurous quotient.
For example you should categorize your self into two categories
1. Adventurous
2. Extreme Adventurous

If you are adventurous and want to stick to OTR’s for 8 to 10 years buy Thar

If you are Extreme Adventurous and do OTR’s and may like to do rallies & high speed Off-roading then go for Gypsy.
Gypsy is a vehicle which can take any amount of torture without making a hole into your pocket. It is an extremely reliable vehicle even at high speeds.

With due respect to everyone based on my experience from Raid-de-Himalaya I can tell you that the gypsy was the best performer. We survived the full rally without a single break down and without any service backup.
Whereas the Scorpios who secured 1st & 2nd position in Adventure category was attended by their service team every day.

To my surprise there was hardly any Mahindra vehicle in Extreme Category, from 1st to last it was all dominated by Gypsies. I simply don’t understand when Scorpio is winning in RDH adventure category, why they always stay away from Extreme category.
As a common man I feel they are afraid of testing their vehicle against gypsies in those extreme conditions.
I don’t know the weight of Thar but again I feel when it come to “Weight to Power” ratio Gypsy is a winner.
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Old 24th December 2010, 18:27   #17
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Default re: Unreasonable dilemma! Thar Vs Gypsy! Mostly resolved Page 9.

Jaggu - I'm sure you have a wishlist. Why don't you put it into an Excel and then start rating these vehicles on a scale of 10. More importanty, share that in this forum so that others can use it too.

Question on the test drive though - Is M&M going to give us off road test drives? If not how can we really evaluate such a vehicle? And if they do, they might be doing only one TD a day.
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Old 24th December 2010, 18:28   #18
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Default re: Unreasonable dilemma! Thar Vs Gypsy! Mostly resolved Page 9.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Crazy4Power View Post
For example you should categorize your self into two categories
1. Adventurous
2. Extreme Adventurous
Am in category 1, though sometimes we cannot really choose and situation can become extreme OTR. By extreme even a souped up Gypsy prepared for a raid will not work out. Offroading is a very different sport and we will require very extreme mods, unlike rally's and raid preparation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Crazy4Power View Post
If you are adventurous and want to stick to OTR’s for 8 to 10 years buy Thar

If you are Extreme Adventurous and do OTR’s and may like to do rallies & high speed Off-roading then go for Gypsy.
Gypsy is a vehicle which can take any amount of torture without making a hole into your pocket. It is an extremely reliable vehicle even at high speeds.
I know Gypsy's are extremely simple and can take a huge amount of abuse. But M&M's are not THAT bad in an OTR environment.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Crazy4Power View Post
With due respect to everyone based on my experience from Raid-de-Himalaya I can tell you that the gypsy was the best performer. We survived the full rally without a single break down and without any service backup.
Whereas the Scorpios who secured 1st & 2nd position in Adventure category was attended by their service team every day.
Thar should be better off, with a lighter mass (approx 450 kg less) compared to Scorp. This also translates to less strain on other parts like suspension and transmission.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Crazy4Power View Post
To my surprise there was hardly any Mahindra vehicle in Extreme Category, from 1st to last it was all dominated by Gypsies. I simply don’t understand when Scorpio is winning in RDH adventure category, why they always stay away from Extreme category.
It's obvious, Scorpio is not an extreme adventure sport vehicle. If you look back in the history, the CJ's and MM's did participate.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Crazy4Power View Post
I don’t know the weight of Thar but again I feel when it come to “Weight to Power” ratio Gypsy is a winner.
Power to weight ratio might be close BUT torque to weight ratio, which matters in offroad. Thar will win.

My apologies for being devil's advocate, siding for both the vehicles. But yes you have a very valid point, Gypsy's are to a great extent indestructible and tried and tested product.

Who know's Thar might just change the scene in the Raid in the coming years.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SafeDrive View Post
Jaggu - I'm sure you have a wishlist. Why don't you put it into an Excel and then start rating these vehicles on a scale of 10. More importanty, share that in this forum so that others can use it too.

Question on the test drive though - Is M&M going to give us off road test drives? If not how can we really evaluate such a vehicle? And if they do, they might be doing only one TD a day.
Good idea with the excel, maybe i will work on it.

Yup! for now i will have to rely more on any official test drive reports by auto journals/forum. I feel M&M should do what Ford did with Endeavor few years back. Create an offroad track and then invite potential customers to TD so that they get some chance to really test the vehicle. I think Toyota also did the same with Fortuner.

M&M you listening???

Last edited by Jaggu : 24th December 2010 at 18:32.
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Old 24th December 2010, 18:54   #19
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Default re: Unreasonable dilemma! Thar Vs Gypsy! Mostly resolved Page 9.

Jaggu, we are all in the same boat, and sailing pretty roughly so to say, my wife is fed up with my Tharonomics and Tharabilities, i have my white MM550, selling it for 3 lacs ??? and buying a Thar with all the mods and additions u have quoted looks quite expensive, 550 is a pretty capable off roader, we all know that, will the thar be worth it, as like you i might drive to a max of 1-1.5 k a month?? as regards cruising ability on the highway, how many highway journeys do we actually do on a jeep, as regards outstation OTrs, they might be for 7-8 times a year, and anyways i have the 550 Xdp, 5 speed, so cruising for me is not such a great problem, so i think i stay with the 550, but a new vehicle the Thar is it.
** your thinking and being in confused mode prompts me to ask, are you a libran by any chance???
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Old 24th December 2010, 18:54   #20
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Default re: Unreasonable dilemma! Thar Vs Gypsy! Mostly resolved Page 9.

Jaggu - you're better off with the Thar.
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Old 24th December 2010, 19:35   #21
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Default re: Unreasonable dilemma! Thar Vs Gypsy! Mostly resolved Page 9.

What a jeep can do, a gypsy will manage somehow (given the lower torque of the petrol mill). However the vice-versa isnt always true. Have seen this many times especially in slush and steep climbs when a run up is required and weight plays a key role. BUT this was with traditional MM jeeps and the Thar could change that.

I think you have already outlined the limitations and advantages of the Gypsy and the Thar. So decide
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Old 24th December 2010, 19:36   #22
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Default re: Unreasonable dilemma! Thar Vs Gypsy! Mostly resolved Page 9.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaggu View Post
Am in category 1, though sometimes we cannot really choose and situation can become extreme OTR. By extreme even a souped up Gypsy prepared for a raid will not work out. Offroading is a very different sport and we will require very extreme mods, unlike rally's and raid preparation.
Then it is the Thar for you. Thar offers you more in terms of comfort, cruising ability and also superior engine with added fuel economy benefits.

Gypsy can withstand far more abuse than any other vehicle out there. Its not just on the raid or the rally circuit. In INRC, while navigating in an esteem, we used to run and work on our car like crazy during the service time. Now in a gypsy, we use the same time to catch our breath and relax as hardly anything breaks on a gypsy.
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Old 24th December 2010, 19:40   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whitemm550 View Post
Jaggu, we are all in the same boat, and sailing pretty roughly so to say, my wife is fed up with my Tharonomics and Tharabilities, i have my white MM550,
---------
** your thinking and being in confused mode prompts me to ask, are you a libran by any chance???
Lol my wifee just gives me a stare and says chuuuup, shhhhhhh etc!

For you no reason to upgrade, coz 550 is pretty decent even on highways. And am the Crab

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Jaggu - you're better off with the Thar.
But why Mag? Will look good along with your new?
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Old 24th December 2010, 19:46   #24
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Exclamation re: Unreasonable dilemma! Thar Vs Gypsy! Mostly resolved Page 9.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaggu View Post
First you share your feedback on the overdrive you put on CJ?!!
That is too harsh!!

There is a definite reason for me not to disclose it at this point, however I will not run without updating my thread with necessary details.

Now tell me how is my OverDrive setup feedback going to help this thread in anyway, If I understand you were clearly asking everyone to post comments on only Thar or Gypsy mode. No OffTopic

Last edited by trammway : 24th December 2010 at 19:50.
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Old 24th December 2010, 20:11   #25
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Default re: Unreasonable dilemma! Thar Vs Gypsy! Mostly resolved Page 9.

If only a 2nd vehicle, max 5-7K Kms a year - i would go for a new gypsy.

Why?

Less complicated
Any mech can help you with it almost anywhere.
Lesser parts inside the hood (point 1)
If you can clone it to spidey-2, it is on par/above par with a Thar-Crde (and have spoa )
Oil service bills are faar less than a ~7-liter sump'd thar
You can have FFE and K&N
You can do the spiti loop with out opening a 'can a thar do it' thread - Tanveers numerous queries about high altitude testing has no replies till date
Maruti Vs Mahindra
Raju cant fix a thar (will do eventually)
You wont be flagged down 10 times on the way to udupi
Swastik Fabs makes more parts for a Gypsy than a thar..!!

Will come up with more...
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Old 24th December 2010, 20:12   #26
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Default re: Unreasonable dilemma! Thar Vs Gypsy! Mostly resolved Page 9.

Want my honest advice? Think with your heart, then with your head, and you'll only have one answer : RETAIN THE CJ3B! I don't know of anyone who would own a truly iconic Jeep like the petrol CJ3B, a well-maintained one at that, and sell it for the Thar. You have got to be kidding me. Does the light weight, SWB non-IFS have an advantage off the road? You bet. Is the Thar better on road? Sure, but you do have other cars right? Since you have the luxury of owning more than 1 car, get your priorities right.....a proper car for the road (i.e. Swift diesel) and a proper Jeep for off road (i.e. your CJ3B).

Cars come and go. In '97 there was the Classic. Then there was the Gurkha. Today, there is the Thar. Tomorrow there will be another. BUT THERE IS NO REPLACEMENT FOR AN ICON. Would you agree that only a nutjob would sell an immaculately maintained W126 V8 for a new E Class? Or a 50's Beetle trade-in for a 2010? Or a '67 Mustang for a new?

You own a classic, you own a special breed...you have a beautiful, capable offroader in the CJ3B. Anyone can buy a Thar and go wheeling, only a true connoisseur has a CJ in his garage. Selling your CJ for a Thar is sacrilege!!

Now, if you didn't own a 4x4, I'd suggest the Thar over the Gypsy 99 times of 100. But as things stand, keep your Jeep. Hey, you'll save some money too. Invest that $$$, use the Swift for another couple of years, and then combine them both (Swift resale + investment) for a killer street car. That way, you have a tarmac burner and an offroad king, BOTH, in your garage.

Sometimes in life, a specialist approach is better than being a generalist.

P.S. For the record, I am putting my money where my mouth is. The Classic in my garage ain't making way for any Thar.

Last edited by GTO : 24th December 2010 at 20:17.
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Old 24th December 2010, 20:25   #27
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Default re: Unreasonable dilemma! Thar Vs Gypsy! Mostly resolved Page 9.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sreejeshmp View Post
According to me Its like..

If CJ/MM jeep is a Beedi then Gypsy is a cigarette.
But Thar is a "sigaar" so follow your Heart Its time for a Change

- Sreejesh

Allow me to correct the "sigaar" - it is CIGAR. No offence bro, just loved the comaprison & thought I should correct the oversight



Cheers
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Old 24th December 2010, 20:31   #28
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Default re: Unreasonable dilemma! Thar Vs Gypsy! Mostly resolved Page 9.

Jaggu,
As your thread topic says..I think this thread itself is unreasonable and should be closed!

Come one man give me a break!! Out of all the people here.. you are in a dilemma!! I cant believe it!! Or is this kind of a joke or April Fool thingy!! But its not even April.

Moderators please close this thread!

Jokes apart.. as GTO said.. listen to your heart and go with what it says!!

I know you haven't even thought of selling your dWarf even in your wildest dreams and you are looking for a 2nd offroader. But I don't think I am qualified to recommend you any 4x4!!

Mr Moderator Jaggu! You should be knowing it better than a lot of us here.

Merry XMas to you and your loved ones!!
JC
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Old 24th December 2010, 20:32   #29
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Default re: Unreasonable dilemma! Thar Vs Gypsy! Mostly resolved Page 9.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaggu View Post
But why Mag? Will look good along with your new?
1. The ~70K price difference you've calculated is not tangible for the usability offered by the diesel Thar over the petrol Gypsy, especially considering the long-term keep you've foreseen. If there were a diesel Gypsy, then it would be fairly lopsided then.

2. I like the Thar - in white (hint), and want to borrow it from you quite frequently.


Quote:
Originally Posted by JeepCaptain View Post
Jaggu,
Moderators please close this thread!

Mr Moderator Jaggu! You should be knowing it better than a lot of us here.
Moderator Jaggu will be infracted shortly for teasing.

Last edited by theMAG : 24th December 2010 at 21:02.
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Old 24th December 2010, 20:37   #30
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Default re: Unreasonable dilemma! Thar Vs Gypsy! Mostly resolved Page 9.

Jaggu,

I have a response which you might not quite like, its almost the same thing I had mentioned in the Thar thread.

All you have to do is wait for Thar to be a success and not buy it. I can bet MSIL would be looking at the Thar launch with close watch.
Just if the Thar becomes a success expect MSIL to bring in a cool form of Gypsy with DDiS Engine and slightly better looks.

I am sure this will happen it Thar clocks in good numbers. The reason MSIL have kept Gypsy alive for so long is because they see that the product still have some life in it in generations to come, if Thar succeds you will surely get a freshened Gypsy
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