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Old 25th December 2010, 16:14   #46
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Jaggu of the 14000 kms on my CJ3B since the petrol engine swap 11000 are on highways. I've done Bangalore, Bombay and Orissa border, not to mention countless trips to forests around Hyderabad.

The CJ3B petrol is divine on the road. Its fun and a unique way to travel. Mind you my 81 year old mother did Bombay with me !

When I'm not offroading its my convertible around town for coffee and ice cream jaunts. I get stares from people in sclass mercedes and 7 series like they just saw an alien for the first time in their life and people on the street smile and relate to this fabulous car.

It has its flaws. Its archaic, handles poorly on rough roads but things are changing. Our highways have become super smooth. The drive from Bangalore back to Hyderabad I clipped at a steady 80 with the top down all the way to Kurnool. I would rate it one of my most memorable drives

I am willing to drive to Kashmir if I have company with one or two other vehicles but no one is game so far.

Buy a hot hatch and keep Dwarf for your offroad fun. Its a offroad go kart alright.

If we didn't have the CJ3B's I would anyday buy a new Thar. Its torquey engine is a delight.

But honestly get a nice hatch and have fun with it. Just make sure your Dwarf is super reliable and ready for any long distance journey. I am thinking of installing double electric fuel pumps, an additional tank for 50 litres of fuel, a spare coil behind the dash just in case and I can head into the Himalayas for sure.

What's the best part about the CJ3B? I don't bat an eyelid when it scrapes somewhere, cause I know it will cost me a pittance to fix it. Its a bit like a Harley, all quirky but with oodles of character. I call it my four wheel motorcycle. As for falling behind on OTR convoy trips, I can understand its a drag but its pointless to drive in convoys in any case if all that everyone does is speed away. 80 kmph should be the agreed speed limit and your Dwarf can do that all day. BTW I drive alone on long journey not in a convoy so its obvious I am 100% sure of the Jeep's reliability. It won't fail you. Even if it does you can overhaul it yourself under a tree !!

Get the Punto 90 bhp, haven't driven it but it should be a fun car with that engine

Last edited by DKG : 25th December 2010 at 16:30.
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Old 26th December 2010, 10:27   #47
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Originally Posted by Jaggu View Post
I have a decent CJ3B with me, my beloved DwArF. I love him! BUT when it comes to travelling long distance, my nightmare begins. No its not because DwArF sips petrol nor from reliability perspective. Its more to do with the high speed cruising and comfort. I can manage the elements, but the CJ3B is comfortable at 60-70 kmph, beyond that its spoiling the overall feel.

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Originally Posted by DKG View Post
Jaggu of the 14000 kms on my CJ3B since the petrol engine swap 11000 are on highways. ...

@Jaggu: Personally, the 3B petrol is one vehicle to own for life! Period.

THARs can come and go, but if you wanna trade in your DWARF, you know whom to call

IMO Thar would make a good 2nd or 3rd vehicle, but for the price does it have a lockable cabin / AC ? Also the disadvantages stated in the THAR bashing threads need to be proved wrong - so lets wait for the first 10,000 THARs to be sold.

BTW, @Spike/Vinod/BD Sir, where in Chennai do we TD a THAR? Can we TD it offroad?
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Old 26th December 2010, 10:38   #48
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Originally Posted by Red Liner View Post
otherwise investing in a TATA 207 makes superb sense, load it in the loading bay and drive off.

Actually, this seems like a decent idea. Is there space in the loading bay?
I have a 207. The bed is 8 feet, we need an additional 18 inches to get the wheels of the CJ3B inside. Only catch is mine is a flat bed and it sits pretty high, 3 feet off the ground. Later if the long distance offroading becomes a routine I may take the bed off (it comes off by unbolting it) and have a track installed so the CJ3B sits snug and low so I have a better CG on highway speeds. Its rated officially for 1.3 tons but regularly does duty upto 2.5 tons in commercial application
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Old 26th December 2010, 13:00   #49
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Hi Jaggu Sir, take my advice sell DwArf, buy a gypsy, if you want i will find a mpfi for you, even i can help you to sell DwArf, are else one more Advice buy a big camera, any how you have two seats readily available to Attend the OTR's. decide it fast you have my mobile number.
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Old 26th December 2010, 13:56   #50
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Originally Posted by headers View Post
@Jaggu: Personally, the 3B petrol is one vehicle to own for life! Period.

THARs can come and go, but if you wanna trade in your DWARF, you know whom to call

IMO Thar would make a good 2nd or 3rd vehicle, but for the price does it have a lockable cabin / AC ? Also the disadvantages stated in the THAR bashing threads need to be proved wrong - so lets wait for the first 10,000 THARs to be sold.

BTW, @Spike/Vinod/BD Sir, where in Chennai do we TD a THAR? Can we TD it offroad?
i would place my money on Thar MDI and not on Thar CRDe to cross 10,000 mark!
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Old 26th December 2010, 14:42   #51
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Originally Posted by trammway View Post
That is too harsh!!
======
Now tell me how is my OverDrive setup feedback going to help this thread in anyway, If I understand you were clearly asking everyone to post comments on only Thar or Gypsy mode. No OffTopic
It was a pleasure talking to you on Friday.

Well the relevance of overdrive is that i can take DwArF on longer drives and make this thread not relevant I will research on your advice and will keep you updated.

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Originally Posted by svsantosh View Post
If only a 2nd vehicle, max 5-7K Kms a year - i would go for a new gypsy.
=======
Will come up with more...
Thanks man, yes the potential of mods is much more on a Gypsy and that is a big plus in the longer run.

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Originally Posted by GTO View Post
Want my honest advice? Think with your heart, then with your head, and you'll only have one answer : RETAIN THE CJ3B!
========
P.S. For the record, I am putting my money where my mouth is. The Classic in my garage ain't making way for any Thar.
I dont think ill be able to sell DwArF without injury from you. So for the time being, DwArF stays, even if there is a new purchase.

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Originally Posted by JeepCaptain View Post
Jokes apart.. as GTO said.. listen to your heart and go with what it says!!
Heart or Head, still confused!

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Originally Posted by theMAG View Post
1. The ~70K price difference you've calculated is not tangible for the usability offered by the diesel Thar over the petrol Gypsy, especially considering the long-term keep you've foreseen.
No mag, for a low mileage vehicle, diesel vs petrol does not work out. Look at what Santhosh has mentioned.

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Originally Posted by xingamazon View Post
All you have to do is wait for Thar to be a success and not buy it. I can bet MSIL would be looking at the Thar launch with close watch.
Just if the Thar becomes a success expect MSIL to bring in a cool form of Gypsy with DDiS Engine and slightly better looks.
I dont think MUL will care a hoot, they will keep on selling the petrol gypsy to armed forces and be happy with it. Gypsy is not going to be promoted in the civilian market, the DDIs engine limited production number etc are going to big hurdle for this dream to be a reality.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 4x4addict View Post
@Jaggu:

My vote is to go for the Thar as it will be much more refined and you have kick-@ss Torque . Remove the anti-roll bars, add a shackle lift & jack up the front torsion bar, put bigger tires and you have an very off-road capable vehicle. The only concern will be the strength of the front axles. I sincerely doubt the Mahindra test track is as brutal as some terrain inhabited by Bangalore jeepers.

The gypsy and thar is a compromise, but I feel Thar will be the lesser of the devils.
How will be the reliability if we do all this? We need to wait and watch for the time being is what i feel. Am not talking about warranty cover, which will cease to exist, but the vehicle reliability after all this :(

Quote:
Originally Posted by starter View Post
Hey Jaggu,
My thoughts: when you have 2 vehicles basically for off-road use, you would slowly start liking one more than the other.
==========
PS: If its between the two, it shall be the Gypsy for me Ease of maintaining it, over Thar CRDe and access to Khan/Vijay for suggestions/help in case you want to get it off-road prepped.
True if so, DwArF will be maintained well with very limited offroad outings. More of a show piece.

Yes Gypsy somehow gives so much of comfort factor inside the head when it comes to fuss free maintainability.

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Originally Posted by Amar82 View Post
I beg to differ in case of highway cruiseability of gypsy vs thar.
Gypsy is very light on the hands and superb cruiser, the Crde should be a good competition and am eager to see the real reports.

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Originally Posted by Zorro4X4 View Post
Thar does look impressive currently, but overall I am sure you will end up paying a lot on maintenance if you do buy the Thar.
Yes i have this fear too.

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Originally Posted by khan_sultan View Post
Simple solution:
Use the TOW BAR that you have. SERIOUSLY. It will work 100% of the time. It's just that you have not used it. I wonder why you then installed it in the first place.
========
Even if you want to do LEH, then these days you can do it extremely comfortably in your FIAT powered Suzuki Swift
Do you seriously think Towing can achieve better speeds and timings compared to me driving DwArF in our indian highway? I really dont think so, after all our experiences. Tow bar is a back up plan and i think at this point of time, it will stay that way. Atleast that is what i feel.

Fun of doing leh in a 4x4 Vs an Innova! I really cant buy into the latter.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ex670c View Post
Which is easier to modify for OTR Requirements?

Do you want to modify a vehicle within its warranty/extended warranty period and get it cancelled or void.
Modification Gypsy wins any day at this point of time, Thar is too new for me to even comment.

Warranty i really am not bothered coz both MUL and M&M will disown me within a week of purchase

Quote:
Originally Posted by fazalaliadil View Post

Selling your CJ3B? If so please don't. Your petrol 3B is for keeps!
===========
CRDE under the hood for highway cruising which is proven and tested on a Scorpio for years doesn't need more of the same. It is you who will need to wait for them to catch up when driving for an OTR venue.
Yes sir 3B stays for now, more i read all of your comments, the more i am sure!

Crde engine definitely is a HUGE advantage for a stock Thar and hence adds to my dilemma over gypsy!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Crazy4Power View Post
@Jaggu - I donít agree to this,

Torque to weight ratio only helps in OTR where surface has something to offer. Other then rocks or very long climbs every thing can be managed with the momentum gained in short distance.
Crawl! And if its Crawl + light vehicle like my 3B, nothing like it!

Quote:
Originally Posted by GTO View Post
Now we are talking. Just wait another week (or in the whereabouts) for the Team-BHP Thar Review. You'll have your answer.
Yes one of the most eagerly awaited test drive report ever, atleast for me personally.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DKG View Post
Jaggu of the 14000 kms on my CJ3B since the petrol engine swap 11000 are on highways. I've done Bangalore, Bombay and Orissa border, not to mention countless trips to forests around Hyderabad.

The CJ3B petrol is divine on the road.
==============
I am willing to drive to Kashmir if I have company with one or two other vehicles but no one is game so far.
=======
Buy a hot hatch and keep Dwarf for your offroad fun. Its a offroad go kart alright.
=========
If we didn't have the CJ3B's I would anyday buy a new Thar. Its torquey engine is a delight.
=============
What's the best part about the CJ3B? I don't bat an eyelid when it scrapes somewhere, cause I know it will cost me a pittance to fix it. Its a bit like a Harley, all quirky but with oodles of character.
I completely agree with you! You are my inspiration right from the day i purchased till today. And now 99% DwArF stays and he is gonna go in for some tune up soon. Am also researching on some know mods that will help me solve my highway dilemma.

Quote:
Originally Posted by headers View Post
@Jaggu: Personally, the 3B petrol is one vehicle to own for life! Period.
Yes sir, point taken!

Quote:
Originally Posted by swastikviji View Post
Hi Jaggu Sir, take my advice sell DwArf, buy a gypsy, if you want i will find a mpfi for you, even i can help you to sell DwArf
No sir, if it is going to be another vehicle. Thar or Gypsy, it is going to be new!
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Old 26th December 2010, 15:37   #52
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hi jaggu,
i too have been giving thought to the relevance of the 3b and the need for a modern 4x4 in my garage.

i made a sheet of my needs:
offroading
long distance travel with 4x4 capability
reasonable comfort
some basic creature comforts: ac. good seats.
rally ready; as i officiate in them and plan to compete soon

so i drew up many permutations/combinations including selling the 3b , selling both-santro and swift(d) which me and my wife drive, selling all 3 and what not.

at the end of the day some clarity emerged for me , so will share it with you.

3b : never sell- why? its too good to be sold just for the need for better cruising ability. i too am looking at how to make the overdrive more cost-effective, had spoken to trammway almost an year back for the same, and yet am tring to find the way out. i have done nearly 8000km as yet and its a dream.

buy the gypsy: why/how?
why: its time tested , has good ability, cheapest to keep, peppy , can be rally prepped at minimal costs, easy to drive.
i have been to all these rally's and otrs and find that it fits the bill well.

@khan sultan: i wish that you were up north in delhi....i too would love to get a fixed towing veh for my 3b. what a generous offer jaggu, grab it.

the thar doesnt fit in as its expensive,heavy, bigger and bulkier than the gypsy, cant be rally prepped, and ahemmmmmm. ...doest look as good as rally gypsy at all.

regards
sharat
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Old 26th December 2010, 16:21   #53
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Dear Jaggu - let me disclose the 'real" reasons why I did Thar? Because I knew from 2002 (when Scorpio was launched), that it could be done. The right time came, so I did it. I had a brand new January 1995 purchased red CL340, MH01P8300. I was forced to sell it because I needed money to make "upfront" payment to a builder for my Pune house. I cried that day as I wanted my car back at any cost. I had highway cruising issue on my CL340 due to the 5.38:1 ratio, therefore I had changed it to 4.27:1 which made it an excellent highway cruiser, which I missed after I sold it. The day I sold it, before giving it away, I had taken it to a fire temple in Mumbai (I am a Bawa, you know). That day, inside the fire temple, I had made a silent agreement with myself that one day I will make a 4*4 vehicle which will sprint like a cheetah and also provide amazing off road capability. Believe you me, M&M is the only organization where I could convert this dream of mine into reality. Thank you M&M. So, what now?

NOW, AS A FINAL STEP TO THE REALIZATION OF MY DREAM, I MUST PHYSICALLY OWN A BRAND NEW THAR CRDe AS MY PERSONAL CAR. AFTER IT IS REGISTERED AS MH15 SOMETHING, THEN I WILL DO WHATEVER I WANT TO DO WITH IT. EVERYTHING IS COMPLETELY READY IN MY HEAD SINCE 2002.

TODAY, MY PERSONAL CAR IS MH15CM6341, THE FASTEST BOLERO VLX IN INDIA. I REGULARLY DO MUMBAI / NASIK IN 2 HOURS AND 7 MINUTES AND I DON'T EVEN PUSH IT.

THE THAR WILL BE WAY FASTER! . THINK GUYS, THINK OUT OF THE BOX.

Would I even consider buying a brand new Gypsy? In 1986 (24 years ago), Maruti had offered me a brand new Gypsy in dark green colour for 1,13,000 rupees on road in Mumbai (I did not even have 13000 rupees in 1986, let alone 1,13,000 rupees). Today, they are selling a later version of it for more than 6 lakhs. And it is not even diesel. That too a long wheel base version with extended overhang? They don't sell the original short wheel base in India at all (they can't - 7 seats, remember?). NO WAY! Now you can decide.

And by the way, if at all you become crazy enough to ever sell the DWARF, "SIRJI, HUM KATAAR MEIN HAIN JI"! But if you ever sell it, you will regret it, like I am still regretting for the last 14 years, since I have sold my CL340.

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar
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Old 26th December 2010, 16:34   #54
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Jaggu, simply go to India Garage and book a THAR. Behram is always with us to guide in whatever mods you want to do with THAR.
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Old 26th December 2010, 19:06   #55
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Since the DWARF stays and the new purchase is going to happen anyways, I would suggest you to give your Swift to wifey and make the new vehicle as your daily drive. For that you need a comfortable vehicle. There is not much difference between the ride quality of both Gypsy and THAR and hence the criteria for me would be AC.

So buy a vehicle which comes factory fitted with AC. Period. Believe me you can pioneer a totally new segment of OTR in AC comfort!

Cheers
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Old 26th December 2010, 19:17   #56
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Originally Posted by docfreak View Post
3b : never sell- why? its too good to be sold just for the need for better cruising ability. i too am looking at how to make the overdrive more cost-effective, had spoken to trammway almost an year back for the same, and yet am tring to find the way out. i have done nearly 8000km as yet and its a dream.

buy the gypsy: why/how?
why: its time tested , has good ability, cheapest to keep, peppy , can be rally prepped at minimal costs, easy to drive.
i have been to all these rally's and otrs and find that it fits the bill well
This is where am parked right now

Quote:
Originally Posted by DHABHAR.BEHRAM View Post
Dear Jaggu - let me disclose the 'real" reasons why I did Thar? Because I knew from 2002 (when Scorpio was launched), that it could be done.
======
Would I even consider buying a brand new Gypsy?
=======
And it is not even diesel. That too a long wheel base version with extended overhang?
========
Now you can decide.
=========
And by the way, if at all you become crazy enough to ever sell the DWARF, "SIRJI, HUM KATAAR MEIN HAIN JI"!
Thank you Sirji, i can "feel" all your emotions about Thar 3 cheers to you and your team, once again.

Diesel does not matter for me, as i mentioned this vehicle will always be a second vehicle for me. We have a Crv, Swift, Ritz and the CJ3B in the family right now. Unless Thar came with hard top and AC it cannot replace any of the above.

As far as rear overhang goes, its a 1 week -15k Job.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TAIF View Post
Jaggu, simply go to India Garage and book a THAR. Behram is always with us to guide in whatever mods you want to do with THAR.
I wish it was as simple as that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MileCruncher View Post
Since the DWARF stays and the new purchase is going to happen anyways, I would suggest you to give your Swift to wifey and make the new vehicle as your daily drive.
This is where the problem starts, wifee travels with me almost 90% of the time including office commute. So i need an AC hard top at the least to make it my primary vehicle. Right now it cannot and definitely NOT at the price i will have to spent to accomplish the same.
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Old 26th December 2010, 19:28   #57
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This is where the problem starts, wifee travels with me almost 90% of the time including office commute. So i need an AC hard top at the least to make it my primary vehicle. Right now it cannot and definitely NOT at the price i will have to spent to accomplish the same.
I understand this is going to change very shortly, atleast in the case of THAR so might be worth the wait and watch.

P.S: I also think it will be faster than your set time line of 6 months.

P.P.S: Actually am also in the same boat as you, waiting for AC and HT. In my case the vehicles are fixed. Bolero goes and a THAR and Nano join the stable. So my advice is to wait and watch!
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Old 26th December 2010, 20:58   #58
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Hi,
In your place, I would a) Keep the 3B. b) Keep it as original as possible. c) Hire a driver to transport it for distant OTRs. (Of course fact is I don't do OTRs, but still ...)

If 'winning' at OTRs is important, get another vehicle (550?), and build it up.

Regards
Sutripta
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Old 27th December 2010, 08:53   #59
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Originally Posted by DHABHAR.BEHRAM View Post

TODAY, MY PERSONAL CAR IS MH15CM6341, THE FASTEST BOLERO VLX IN INDIA. I REGULARLY DO MUMBAI / NASIK IN 2 HOURS AND 7 MINUTES AND I DON'T EVEN PUSH IT.

THE THAR WILL BE WAY FASTER! . THINK GUYS, THINK OUT OF THE BOX.
Sir, I think i'm aware of the mods done. Does it improve your top end as well as handling?

How do you manage on the braking front?

Sorry for OT
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Old 27th December 2010, 10:48   #60
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Dear Vikram - the "first" change (you know) has enhanced the acceleration, the top end really does not matter as the roads dictate this need, the "second" change has completely transformed the ride and handling, I now actually accelerate "into the corners", which is not normally done. The "third" change involves working from the laptop. The final package is very very fast. I am going to enhance the brakes shortly. Everything is completely engineered and ensures that desired performance is delivered.

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar
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