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Old 3rd January 2011, 16:48   #91
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Default re: Unreasonable dilemma! Thar Vs Gypsy! Mostly resolved Page 9.

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Originally Posted by gsferrari View Post
What for? You just need a compressor right? Isn't the blower factory fitted? Even if it isn't - shouldn't cost more than 15k for the LOT!

Another ploy to make sure the customer is at the mercy of the dealership. Maruti follows a similar policy with the Gypsy. I paid 45000 for my Gypsy AC installation but it included everything and then some. Thermal insulation, piping, 6V10 compressor, Superking blower, custom ducting etc. At least I am happy with my install.

What is the breakup for the 48k?
@gs: The thar has only the blower. In addition to this you will need to buy the following:

1) Compressor, mounting & fanbelt
2) Evaporator coil & fan
3) Condensor
4) Gas Tank/reservoir
5) Additional Piping
6) Labout.

Even then 48K is expensive. However, it will cost atleast 25K at the dealer for these things.
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Old 3rd January 2011, 16:50   #92
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Default re: Unreasonable dilemma! Thar Vs Gypsy! Mostly resolved Page 9.

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Originally Posted by 4x4addict View Post
@gs: The thar has only the blower. In addition to this you will need to buy the following:

1) Compressor, mounting & fanbelt
2) Evaporator coil & fan
3) Condensor
4) Gas Tank/reservoir
5) Additional Piping
6) Labout.

Even then 48K is expensive. However, it will cost atleast 25K at the dealer for these things.
Thar already comes with:

- Compressor mounts & fanbelt
- Fan
- Insulated Piping.
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Old 3rd January 2011, 16:53   #93
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Default re: Unreasonable dilemma! Thar Vs Gypsy! Mostly resolved Page 9.

No Tejas those pipes are for heater fluid circuit. AC will need separate aluminum pipe, also compressor mount since what it comes with is a dummy pulley fitment, which when removed will give access to the engine for mounting bolts.

Belt am not sure but if the dia of compressor pulley is small then yes, otherwise you will require plus size belt. But should be readily available.

Spike can you clarify if ^^^ is correct.
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Old 3rd January 2011, 16:59   #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tejas@perioimpl View Post
Thar already comes with:

- Compressor mounts & fanbelt
- Fan
- Insulated Piping.
The Fan is for the Radiator. You'll require another 1 or 2 fans for the evaporator. Else its a recipe for Engine Over heating

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaggu View Post
No Tejas those pipes are for heater fluid circuit. AC will need separate aluminum pipe, also compressor mount since what it comes with is a dummy pulley fitment, which when removed will give access to the engine for mounting bolts.

Belt am not sure but if the dia of compressor pulley is small then yes, otherwise you will require plus size belt. But should be readily available.

Spike can you clarify if ^^^ is correct.
Jaggu Bhai, The pulley and belt is not a problem as they are a direct transplant from the Bolero/Xylo. The major issue is placement of the evaporator coil.

Last edited by MileCruncher : 3rd January 2011 at 17:01.
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Old 3rd January 2011, 17:05   #95
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Default re: Unreasonable dilemma! Thar Vs Gypsy! Mostly resolved Page 9.

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Originally Posted by MileCruncher View Post
...The major issue is placement of the evaporator coil.
MM is in the process of creating a SoP for the same. The same procedure will be followed by all dealers for A/C fitment. That's what the news is from MM
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Old 3rd January 2011, 17:09   #96
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Originally Posted by MileCruncher View Post
Jaggu Bhai, The pulley and belt is not a problem as they are a direct transplant from the Bolero/Xylo. The major issue is placement of the evaporator coil.
Yup thats what i meant also, the one that comes in the Thar from factory cannot be reused for AC.

What is SoP? ^^^
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Old 3rd January 2011, 17:14   #97
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Originally Posted by Jaggu View Post

What is SoP? ^^^
Standard Operating Procedure AFAIK
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Old 3rd January 2011, 17:17   #98
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Originally Posted by MileCruncher View Post
Standard Operating Procedure AFAIK
LOL am indeed , i thought it was another new part. That would be nice though, so that the dealers wont goof it up while fitting an AC.

How is bolero set up? One of 2 fans? The pics posted elsewhere did not show any additional fans. So if the stock one can be replaced with an upgraded electric fan, it should work? right?
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Old 3rd January 2011, 17:17   #99
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Default re: Unreasonable dilemma! Thar Vs Gypsy! Mostly resolved Page 9.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tejas@perioimpl View Post
Thar already comes with:

- Compressor mounts & fanbelt
- Fan
- Insulated Piping.
Insulated piping?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 4x4addict View Post
4) Gas Tank/reservoir
??

Quote:
Originally Posted by MileCruncher View Post
The Fan is for the Radiator. You'll require another 1 or 2 fans for the evaporator. Else its a recipe for Engine Over heating
Why 2 fans?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaggu View Post
No Tejas those pipes are for heater fluid circuit. AC will need separate aluminum pipe, also compressor mount since what it comes with is a dummy pulley fitment, which when removed will give access to the engine for mounting bolts.

Belt am not sure but if the dia of compressor pulley is small then yes, otherwise you will require plus size belt. But should be readily available.

Spike can you clarify if ^^^ is correct.
Jaggu, you are correct, AC inlet and outlet pipes are different. Did you notice two holes plugged with rubber grommets near the firewall?

Throw away the idler pulley replace with a compressor, no change in belt, belt tension etc.

Spike

PS-Can help you out with parts if required.
PPS- SoP also means Start of Production :-P

Last edited by SPIKE ARRESTOR : 3rd January 2011 at 17:19.
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Old 3rd January 2011, 17:23   #100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaggu View Post

How is bolero set up? One of 2 fans? The pics posted elsewhere did not show any additional fans. So if the stock one can be replaced with an upgraded electric fan, it should work? right?
Quote:
Originally Posted by SPIKE ARRESTOR View Post
Why 2 fans?
The Bolero Setup is 1 electric fan for the evaporator and one fan for the radiator. The Radiator Fan unlike smaller petrol / diesel engine is always rotating. I understand due to absence of regulated airflow to the radiator as well the smaller evaporator coil requiring higher per sqcm heat dissipation 2 electric fans might be needed.

Let Spike clarify!

Cheers
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Old 3rd January 2011, 19:01   #101
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The fan for the Radiator in a Bolero is of Viscous clutch type.

Spike
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Old 3rd January 2011, 19:29   #102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SPIKE ARRESTOR View Post
Did you notice two holes plugged with rubber grommets near the firewall?
Yup i saw those plugs. No need for cutting hole on fire wall etc.


Quote:
Originally Posted by SPIKE ARRESTOR View Post
Throw away the idler pulley replace with a compressor, no change in belt, belt tension etc.
This i didnt quite understand, do you mean the AC pulley is similar in size? Idler pulley seemed small?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MileCruncher View Post
The Radiator Fan unlike smaller petrol / diesel engine is always rotating.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SPIKE ARRESTOR View Post
The fan for the Radiator in a Bolero is of Viscous clutch type.
And hence it runs through out, and if am not mistaken saw the same set up on the Thar Crde?
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Old 3rd January 2011, 20:21   #103
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaggu View Post
a) This i didnt quite understand, do you mean the AC pulley is similar in size? Idler pulley seemed small?

b) And hence it runs through out, and if am not mistaken saw the same set up on the Thar Crde?
a) Yes, same to same. Remove dummy pulley, fit Compressor, bolt on!

b) The viscous fan is engaged only under 5-15% of normal operating conditions, otherwise the radiator is cooled through Ram air cooling, this is done to reduce the parasitic losses resulting due to parts coupled to the power plant. The viscous fan engages and disengages in accordance with the bimetallic coil placed inside the assembly. This happens when a pre-set temperature is reached.

Spike
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Old 3rd January 2011, 20:42   #104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SPIKE ARRESTOR View Post
b) The viscous fan is engaged only under 5-15% of normal operating conditions, otherwise the radiator is cooled through Ram air cooling, this is done to reduce the parasitic losses resulting due to parts coupled to the power plant. The viscous fan engages and disengages in accordance with the bimetallic coil placed inside the assembly. This happens when a pre-set temperature is reached.

Spike
So what you mean to say that there will be instances when the fan shouldn't be moving right. But I have never seen that happen i.e. the fan actually not rotating while the engine is on.

Could you please explain further.
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Old 3rd January 2011, 21:08   #105
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@MC, have you seen it when the Ram air is actually in full swing ? No, you must have seen it while in Kerb idle, in most conditions the fan is just freewheeling and not actually engaged. During freewheel the fan rotates but only at ~ 800 RPM, it is only when the engine is loaded the fan engages. This is felt when:-
1. The engine sound increases to a slight roar
2. Fan spins faster ~ 1800 RPM and above.

Spike
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