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Old 25th March 2013, 15:22   #121
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Default Re: Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde- From Doctor to Jeeper

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Originally Posted by Shubhendra View Post
I am really interested in temperature readings of engine in AC usage during summer and Bangaluru traffic....
It is stuck @ 80 in peak traffic, I have lost count how many times Madhu has called me like a damsel in distress last 3 weeks, each time from peak traffic - 'buddy, needle @ 60 70 80, what should I do, urgent, help'

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Originally Posted by dhanushs View Post
Can you please share/PM me the total cost incurred? If its truly cheap, then please tell the guy that you have one more customer lined up
I think doc is yet to revisit his thread, It was 12,000Rs for ALL USED, we upgraded to 15,500Rs with all-but-Blower-old option, and while delivery he took only 15,000Rs and said get lost!

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Originally Posted by Samurai View Post
That blower position, does it block any of the levers?

It is this thought that made me shift to DI.
1) No Samu, all 1-2-3 levers Ok

2) One lady is going to be a bit angry and couple of gents very happy in coming weeks!! (God willing 2nd lady and same bunch of Gents - same story!!) Keep watching...
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Old 26th March 2013, 06:09   #122
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Default Re: Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde- From Doctor to Jeeper

Thanks for the comment guys and thanks Santosh for filling up the details. I can share the details of the AC guy here or even PM to those who want it.
Yes the temp does shoot up to 80 in 4-5 minutes and stays just below 80 mark even after a 30 Km ride with AC full on. There is no fouling of the blower with the gear levers and the cooling is effective as I have a roll down partition to my soft top that effectively makes it into a two cabin compartment. Been enjoying this summer within the Jeep and drive it to my Hospital 32Km away almost daily.
Nice teaser trailer Santosh. Yes its time to give wings to my RANGER!

Last edited by madhkris : 26th March 2013 at 06:11. Reason: typo
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Old 26th March 2013, 18:01   #123
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Exclamation XD3P overheating

Dr Madhu, before I start here, request you to read this post of mine regarding overheating of XD3P engines - http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/4x4-te...ml#post3074255 (Hood Vents - Do they work in lowering temperature?)

Think -

1. What is so special in a MDI engine, which does not let it overheat vis-a-vis XD3P ?
2. GTO also has a XD3P in his Classic, it has an AC too, afaik, it does not overheat. Now, argument may arise that -
a) His engine is new from the factory,
b) His engine has not been rebuilt,
c) His is a Classic, hence lesser load on the AC due to lesser greenhouse volume.

Ok, so why does an overhauled XD3P engine overheat, there must be something behind it right? What is that thing - man (the person who does the job) , machine (the engine and the design itself) or material (spare parts ) ?

GTO, your feedback on the XD3P would be welcome.

3. I understand that you are on a hunt for a MDI 3200 NA engine, assuming that the XD3P is bound to overheat or have you been told so? Had it been an engine which is not designed for an AC application, I would agree with your thoughts. But this engine does duty in many models - for e.g. ask MP Sreenivasan, I doubt if his Armada overheats. Yeah, it is understandable as the engine gets older, there may be chances it shows overheating symptoms. But, somehow I feel, it is being projected that all Peugeot engines are bound to overheat, no matter come what may, which obviously is not true.

I have heard of radiators being changed / upgraded due to engine overheating, engine upgrade due to engine overheating is new to me. Somehow, my tiny brain fails to understand this reasoning.

Spike
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Old 26th March 2013, 18:56   #124
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Default Re: Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde- From Doctor to Jeeper

Dr.,
I thought Its is a MM540 DP. When you swapped the Engine to XD3P ? do you have the same heating issue after AC install ? How many kilometer it run after the Engine rebuild ?
Sorry too many questions .

BTW - Spike, Any idea of the odometer reading of GTO's Classic after XD3P swap ?

- Sreejesh
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Old 26th March 2013, 19:48   #125
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Default Re: XD3P overheating

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Originally Posted by SPIKE ARRESTOR View Post
I have heard of radiators being changed / upgraded due to engine overheating, engine upgrade due to engine overheating is new to me.
As the latest one to upgrade to DI, let me try to address this. I don't think anyone with perfectly working XD3P would upgrade to DI. It would very unnecessary.

Until I traveled to back to Bangalore for the annual OTR, I had no immediate plans to change the engine. I knew it was an engine with unknown history, but I was hoping to leave it alone as long as it performs well. But I started having the overheating problem once the AC was installed. At first I suspected the AC to be responsible, but while climbing the ghats with AC off, it still overheated. When I came back 1000kms later, I knew the engine was in deep trouble. The question was between expensive overhaul of XD3P or upgrade to a DI engine with known history. And I knew that the overhauled XD3P can be back in the dog house after just one overheating incident. That's how the decision process worked in my case.
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Old 26th March 2013, 20:25   #126
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Default Re: Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde- From Doctor to Jeeper

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Originally Posted by sreejeshmp View Post
Dr.,
I thought Its is a MM540 DP. When you swapped the Engine to XD3P ? do you have the same heating issue after AC install ?
Oops, seems like I jumped the gun. Off late have been seeing a lot of XD3P stuff so I thought his one too is a XD3P

Quote:
BTW - Spike, Any idea of the odometer reading of GTO's Classic after XD3P swap ?
No idea about the odo reading but a close friend of mine in Bangalore had a 2WD Bolero XD3P with AC, it was stock, it also never overheated. Any idea why? Don't tell me the engine was not old and not rebuilt, that is a lousy reasoning.

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Originally Posted by Samurai View Post
As the latest one to upgrade to DI, let me try to address this. I don't think anyone with perfectly working XD3P would upgrade to DI. It would very unnecessary.
True that.

Quote:
Until I traveled to back to Bangalore for the annual OTR, I had no immediate plans to change the engine. -----
That's how the decision process worked in my case.
Sounds reasonable in your case.

Spike
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Old 26th March 2013, 20:54   #127
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Default Re: XD3P overheating

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Originally Posted by SPIKE ARRESTOR View Post
... the guy who had overseen the build, knew what he was doing. Everything was from Bolero parts bin. It never overheated.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SPIKE ARRESTOR View Post
Ok, so why does an overhauled XD3P engine overheat, there must be something behind it right? What is that thing - man (the person who does the job) , machine (the engine and the design itself) or material (spare parts ) ?
Dear Spike, I have not driven too many engines extensively, but, among those I have driven, I absolutely love the XD3P! If at all, I have to rebuild my engine, my heart would still say to stick on to XD3P. (Atleast for my humble Jeep)

I'm also ready to spend on the rebuild, with all those shiny new M&M OE parts..

However: Please give me ONE mechanic and industrial work person who can guarantee a perfect rebuild, so that engine does not heat up even if its in 2nd LOW and AC, all day long and a life of 1 lac kilometers - APART from the Mahindra Manufacturing Facility, whom us lesser mortals have no access to.

As you know I have some good friends inside the Mahindra service center (which is supposed to be the best place to send a Mahindra vehicle??) , here as well as Calicut, which is a fairly big city, or more importantly, a center with lots of XD3P engined vehicles... Even they cant be trusted with this rebuild. So, what is XD3P users option??..

Quote:
1. What is so special in a MDI engine, which does not let it overheat vis-a-vis XD3P ?
Now, I don't know the internals of both the engines, and why this is happening, but I can give you a handful of mechanics who can sort out the Di engines as good as new. So, again, what is our options Di or XD3P?
Quote:
I have heard of radiators being changed / upgraded due to engine overheating, engine upgrade due to engine overheating is new to me. Somehow, my tiny brain fails to understand this reasoning.
This is the least we people, with limited skilled resources can do.

Let me lay down my choices:
  1. Spend as much money that is needed on a XD3P rebuild with OE parts, and live with the fear if it will overheat?
  2. Spend the same money and get a Di or Scorpio engine which will also fetch you more money, if at all you sell your Jeep.
So, what would I chose?
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Old 26th March 2013, 21:10   #128
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Default Re: XD3P overheating

Quote:
Originally Posted by dhanushs View Post

However: Please give me ONE mechanic and industrial work person who can guarantee a perfect rebuild, so that engine does not heat up even if its in 2nd LOW and AC, all day long and a life of 1 lac kilometers - APART from the Mahindra Manufacturing Facility, whom us lesser mortals have no access to.
I agree, skilled labour IS a problem.

2nd low with AC running all day long for 1 lac kms will be a bit difficult man, it would be asking TOO much.

Quote:
As you know I have some good friends inside the Mahindra service center (which is supposed to be the best place to send a Mahindra vehicle??) , here as well as Calicut, which is a fairly big city, or more importantly, a center with lots of XD3P engined vehicles... Even they cant be trusted with this rebuild. So, what is XD3P users option??..
True.

Quote:
Now, I don't know the internals of both the engines, and why this is happening, but I can give you a handful of mechanics who can sort out the Di engines as good as new. So, again, what is our options Di or XD3P?
Quite logical, considering the amount of DI engined models in the field.

Quote:
Let me lay down my choices:
  1. Spend as much money that is needed on a XD3P rebuild with OE parts, and live with the fear if it will overheat?
  2. Spend the same money and get a Di or Scorpio engine which will also fetch you more money, if at all you sell your Jeep.
So, what would I chose?
For the same money, if you get a DI, it is the way to go. I do not deny that DI is a very good engine, my only dissent is with the "labeling" being associated with XD3P engine. BTW, for the same money, if one can get a Scorpio engine, will someone go for a DI?

Spike
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Old 26th March 2013, 21:32   #129
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Default Re: Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde- From Doctor to Jeeper

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Originally Posted by SPIKE ARRESTOR View Post
2nd low with AC running all day long for 1 lac kms will be a bit difficult man, it would be asking TOO much.
Ok, well, yeah.. I was going a bit overboard!
Quote:
For the same money, if you get a DI, it is the way to go. I do not deny that DI is a very good engine, my only dissent is with the "labeling" being associated with XD3P engine. BTW, for the same money, if one can get a Scorpio engine, will someone go for a DI?
Well, you get a scorpio engine for the same or ~5-10k more than the Di Turbo. But, the issue is FE. That is why people prefer Di.

Coming to that topic, one more reason why people prefer Di over XD3P, is the FE.

If at all I have an option, I would still stick on to my XD3P!
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Old 26th March 2013, 21:57   #130
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Default Re: Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde- From Doctor to Jeeper

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Originally Posted by dhanushs View Post

Coming to that topic, one more reason why people prefer Di over XD3P, is the FE.
That is also a valid point and must be taken into consideration.

Older DI engines also have their own gremlins, rear end oil seal being one among them.

Spike
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Old 27th March 2013, 08:05   #131
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Default Re: Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde- From Doctor to Jeeper

Dhanush ,Spike Saars

what is the torque figure of the desired DI engine and at what RPM ?

Are these engines as responsive as the French once ? WRT RPM ? whats your take . My take is they are slow . ( don't go by the word , I mean the overall feel )

Sudarshan .
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Old 27th March 2013, 11:53   #132
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Default Re: XD3P overheating

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Originally Posted by SPIKE ARRESTOR View Post
GTO also has a XD3P in his Classic, it has an AC too, afaik, it does not overheat. Now, argument may arise that -
a) His engine is new from the factory,
b) His engine has not been rebuilt,
c) His is a Classic, hence lesser load on the AC due to lesser greenhouse volume.

GTO, your feedback on the XD3P would be welcome.
Do note that I ran an A/C on the stock 2.1 motor too. The compressor was a massive unit from the Tata Sierra. Here's how I solved the over-heating problem:

1. An effective radiator cowl design. This is an area often overlooked by most Jeep owners, yet it can make a lot of difference to the effectiveness of your cooling fan.

2. Fitted the largest radiator that would fit in my engine bay (bought from the excellent folk @ Lawrence Radiator Company (Radiators - Lawrence Radiators (Mumbai))).

3. I do remember that Milestone changed the radiator fan, but am not sure if it was bigger or had more blades.

Of course, my Jeep had jet black sunfilm. That, and the small cabin, meant the air-con compressor didn't have to work as hard.

Our last resort was fitting an electric fan, but this wasn't required as the above-mentioned points kept the engine cool.

The 2.1 & 2.5 both, ran cool as a cucumber in bumper to bumper traffic on hot summer days. However, if I continuously cruised at 105 kph & max rpm on the highway, the needle would go to 90 - 95 degrees. Getting down to 80ish kph kept the temperature needle flat @ 80 degrees. This was my choice as the Jeep felt unwieldy over 90 kph and I didn't fancy running the engine @ max rpm for an extended duration either.

P.S. : As of date, I've removed the air-con from the Jeep as it's no longer a daily driver. Ferdi fitted the air-con in his Jeep.

P.P.S. : I do NOT recommend removing the thermostat valve. We removed it once and the Jeep took way too long to reach operating temperature. Fitted it back immediately.

Last edited by GTO : 27th March 2013 at 22:00. Reason: Adding point on sunfilm
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Old 2nd April 2013, 20:23   #133
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Default Re: Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde- From Doctor to Jeeper

Spike, dhanush, sree, bhai

One more point - XD3P #s are @ 195~ Kilos, Di-NA is lot less#s at 270+~Kgs but at much lower RPMs? How is it supposed to feel?

Sharath - Our plans are on hold until we get a see & feel of your Di+KMT90, too much confusion. I guess a real TD would help us in making a informed decision.
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Old 2nd April 2013, 21:07   #134
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Default Re: Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde- From Doctor to Jeeper

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Originally Posted by svsantosh View Post
One more point - XD3P #s are @ 195~ Kilos, Di-NA is lot less#s at 270+~Kgs but at much lower RPMs? How is it supposed to feel?
Santosh, IIRC, Di is more than 300 kilos?.

However coming to the point: older C-section 'Jeep's with MDi ran fine. So, I guess with properly measured and marked mountings, it should not be a problem?.

Or is there some other reason why the 540/550 (C-Section) didn't come with a Di engine?
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Old 26th May 2013, 08:22   #135
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Default Re: Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde- From Doctor to Jeeper

A small OTR with some friends (Bhpians SV Santosh, Mohan G, Tejas, myself along with Sidhu, Arun and Prashanth and a few families too) on a lazy Saturday morning between Hosur and Krishnagiri saw 4 jeeps and a Jonga (A finely restored one with care!) raiding the Hills.
It was mostly a rocky terrain with steep hills to add to the fun.
My 'Ranger' performed well and even had the opportunity to winch out the Jonga at an obstacle. It was one of the rare OTRs where all Jeeps came out without any damage.
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