A request to all the audio gurus .. Can this be repaired ?? - Team-BHP

mclaren1885 · 8th July 2006, 18:00

Ok guys as u all know i had got the ICE from JB and gunman ages back for my zen .. Also a very well known fact is that my car got totalled and hence i couldnt use the same system in my baleno as i was a bit held up with finance for engine mods .. Now that said and done i have finally fixed the 5.5'' compos in the stock front door locations and also the MRV-f450 under the passengers seat just as a temporary placement until the great guns namely JB and gunman come to this part of the town and setup it up all over again for me

..

Now what i would like to know is during the accident , to my bad luck one of the rear co-axials got damaged .. The damage though not much , im not quite sure if its in a usable condition .. Thus need ur views on this .. Posting a few pics of the speaker which shows the damage .. Kindly request u to advice me asap asto whether this thing can be repaired , if it will make a huge difference to the quality of sound if used like this only etc etc .. If not il have to go in for a new set of compos preferably 6.5'' up front and push the existing compos to the rear ..

Sorry for the poor quality pics , taken from cell phone ..

Also the existing system in the baleno will be :

1. Pioneer 7750 HU soon to be replaced with a kenwood HU ..
2. Hertz ESK-130 compo's at the front ..
3. Hertz ECX-165 coax if these are usable if not the ESK's will be used at the rear and HSK-165's at the front ..
4. Hertz ES-250D 10'' sub on the parcel tray .. Soon another 10'' will be joining this ..
5. Alpine MRV-F450 5ch alpine amp ..
6. Audison speaker cables from the existing setup in the zen ..
7. All new Audison 6ch interconnects for the alpine , so that it can be upgradable to the Audison- LRX 6 ch amp that im going to upgrade to soon ..

PS : JB/gunbir pls carry along with u the 6ch interconnects for my POOR system .. Hope u guys wont forget it amidst KB1000000000000 ka maal dhamal

..

PS 2 : To my luck i have found the tweeters .. Dad had left them in the subwoofer box .. Also whats the price of the banana plugs ?? The ones that were gifted to me are broken

.. Also JB i would need the speaker grills ..

low_bass_makker · 8th July 2006, 18:07

IMHO get them changed ...........or they wil extra phuter phuter to the music......

rsjaurr · 8th July 2006, 18:14

Not sure if it can be repaired but do check bcae1.com.One of page do give some information abt reparing spk.

Bass&Trouble · 8th July 2006, 20:50

Hi McLaren...I'm not a audio guru, but i'll give it a try!How did you manage to do that? Does the surround of the speaker foul with the screw hole causing the rubber to twist when you screw the speaker in? From your picture, it appears like it probably does. And probably, after installation the rubber remained turned like that for a long period of time to cause it to permanently deform, which you probably noticed when you took the speaker out? I notice the driver does not have a rubber or plastic trim ring to keep the surround edge secure. If it was there, and the cause is what i assume, this wouldn't happen. I'm sorry to observe that the driver is quite tackily built. The surround edge should ideally cover just the shore of the basket and not extend upto the fastening pcd unless the surround was punched with holes too. Also, the method employed to connect the leads to the tweeter is rather primitive, and a good design would pass the leads through the pole piece up to the tweeter post rather than punching holes and gluing on a part of the cone that is being used for sound reproduction. In any case, you have few choices. The more expensive one is to get a new speaker altogether, which is a total waste of money considering the only trouble you have is with the surround of one speaker. The other and more practical option is to get a recone kit for the driver in concern from Gunbir, and have the speaker reconed. The recone kit for a driver like that couldn't be more than $2. But I am worried, like I mentioned above, that speakers that are usually built like this, have fixed and undetachable tweeter posts that go in and are glued after the rest of the driver is fully assembled, and hence make reconing impossible. If this is the case, then the best thing to do is to take out the tweeters somehow even if it involves breaking the post, recone the driver, put a dust cap and use the tweeter after removing it from the post externally like a component set. So that would invlove plucking out the tweeter from the other speaker too. I don't think anything else other than this is possible.

mclaren1885 · 8th July 2006, 21:08

Well actually it wasnt an installation problem at all .. The car met with an accident sometime back and got totalled during which time the parcel tray got a hit pretty badly and this was the end result (or so im guessing !!!) ..

Bass&Trouble · 8th July 2006, 21:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by mclaren1885

Well actually it wasnt an installation problem at all .. The car met with an accident sometime back and got totalled during which time the parcel tray got a hit pretty badly and this was the end result (or so im guessing !!!) ..

That doesn't sound like such a good guess. A rubber surround is a flexible rubber ring, and there are few things that can distort it like it appears, firstly being the reason that I supposed in my earlier post, another could be excessive heat, which I doubt because, I wouldn't expect the damage to be so localized unless you burnt it with a lighter, the third is improper storage, thats like keeping one driver on another or a heavy object like a hammer on the speaker in a way that it depresses the surround for a very long time etc. So maybe, when the car got hit, you didnt have the grills on, and something got stuck into the surround for a really long time before you extracted the speakers..and all this happened without causing any damage to the speaker basket...seems a bit improbable, but you must know better.

low_bass_makker · 8th July 2006, 21:27

mc laren first of all post some clear pics of the same so as we can understand the situation here. As B&T said while installing the speaker the rubber has been twisted which is a not good thing by design this happen to my woodstock sub when I used to tighten it to its enclousure the rubber surround used to get twisted. but there can be may reasons for this malfunction....

So as to get the clear picture to what has happend we need clear pics....

here are some pics of my pioneer 121spl sub who voice got damaged which I reparied and sold it and believe me it is still playing loud.....lol

the basket

another angle of the basket

the voice coil in damaged

another view

status of the voice coil

speedzak · 9th July 2006, 01:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by low_bass_makker

here are some pics of my pioneer 121spl sub who voice got damaged which I reparied and sold it and believe me it is still playing loud.....lol

My goodness!!!! You SOLD it??? for a full price!!! I guess!!

I'm not buying anything from you then!!!

low_bass_makker · 9th July 2006, 01:36

no man at half price

but was a good deal as the sub was already fused....

speedzak · 9th July 2006, 01:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by low_bass_makker

no man at half price

but was a good deal as the sub was already fused....

Great man!

So, next time you have an half price sale, Call me too. (Just to issue warnings to the customers)!!! LOL!!!

low_bass_makker · 9th July 2006, 01:41

right now nothing at sale.........but surely do the same to inform u for the sale.......

gunbir · 9th July 2006, 03:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bass&Trouble

I'm sorry to observe that the driver is quite tackily built. The surround edge should ideally cover just the shore of the basket and not extend upto the fastening pcd unless the surround was punched with holes too.

B&T, the basket is damaged. It was hit during his major accident and the basket is deformed, in turn causing the cone and surround to flex in this fashion. The basket was deformed and has been bent back into shape. There are no manufacturing issues with this product and neither any installation issues. Just a case of abuse. B&T dont be trigger happy, I have a lot of patience, but I wont tolerate anybody calling our products tacky.

McLaren, whats the point of this thread when you have discussed this over the phone with us. The product is clearly damaged by abuse (you also know this, and theres no debate about this) which happened in the accident, wherein you totaled your car. The fact that 95% of your equipment made it through the accident says something for the installation and build quality. Why bring this up when you know the answer.

Sam Kapasi · 9th July 2006, 14:32

Mclaren,
I didn't comment on this earlier for the same reason. You know what has happened to your speaker and I was 100% sure you had spoken to Gunbir and JB, who are not only experts on speakers as it is, but also the distributors of the product in question AND your pals.

By posting this here, after speaking to them, you veritably question the rather credible advice they must have already given you.

Secondly B&T, in my opinion your post was caustic and unnecessary.

Autophile · 9th July 2006, 14:48

Hi McLaren...I'm not a audio guru, but i'll give it a try!How did you manage to do that? Does the surround of the speaker foul with the screw hole causing the rubber to twist when you screw the speaker in? From your picture, it appears like it probably does. And probably, after installation the rubber remained turned like that for a long period of time to cause it to permanently deform, which you probably noticed when you took the speaker out?

B&T you have a nice explaination there but i have never experienced the situation you have mentioned above in my audio experience (both home and car). In which i have used a wide spectrum of products costing right from peanuts to ultra expensive. Maybe I have never come across so poorly designed product in my life.

The installation was done my me personally I think that rules out your so called dramatic explaination.

I notice the driver does not have a rubber or plastic trim ring to keep the surround edge secure. If it was there, and the cause is what i assume, this wouldn't happen. I'm sorry to observe that the driver is quite tackily built. The surround edge should ideally cover just the shore of the basket and not extend upto the fastening pcd unless the surround was punched with holes too.

One of the most expensive speakers don't use the so called rubber or plastic trim. There is no need for the same if the manufacturer is confident about the glues they are using. The rubber/plastic ring is only required if you are mounting the driver behind the mounting baffle or to provide support for surround pastings in cheap drivers which I have never used. May be you have.

Also, the method employed to connect the leads to the tweeter is rather primitive, and a good design would pass the leads through the pole piece up to the tweeter post rather than punching holes and gluing on a part of the cone that is being used for sound reproduction. In any case, you have few choices.

Every manufacturer has its own design and way of manufacturing stuff. If it works, sounds great and have no reliability issues. I don't see any problems in it.

I'm sorry to observe that the driver is quite tackily built

What makes you say the above statement I really don't know. It can be any of the following reasons :

1. You have very good eyes to visualise the speakers build quality of a camera phone picture.

2. Peerless company has state of the art FEA software which can calculate the speakers build quality by reading from an image.

3. You have personally visited McLaren all the way to Bangalore for inspecting the damaged driver.

The Hertz products absolutely don't have any issues related to maufacturing or design. Even if there will be any ever (though till date its zero) we are here to address it.

I would suggest you pay attention to your products eventually thats whats benificial to you and your companys growth and business.

Next time think before writing any such comment about our products because I will not tolerate it.

low_bass_makker · 9th July 2006, 15:35

oh ho yaar people mclaren had talked to the gunbir and jb that is all right what if mclaren had to get a second opinion from the other people on this forum. I think mclaren has done the right thing,

But two thing he must have must have done to avoid this confusion first there should have been clear pics of the speaker showing the damage surround and the bent basket.....this should have cleared up the 90% of the problem. next he should not have stated name of the speaker manufacture because of which gunbir and jb are defending it right now.

So mclaren please post good pics to support ur question and others on this forum will get some knowledge about what can be repaired and what cannot.

If mclaren u r not interested mods please close down this theard as there is no point discussing it further.........

8th July 2006, 18:00	#1 (permalink)
mclaren1885 Senior - BHPian Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Bangalore (the city of modded cars) !! Posts: 3,993 View My Garage	A request to all the audio gurus .. Can this be repaired ?? Ok guys as u all know i had got the ICE from JB and gunman ages back for my zen .. Also a very well known fact is that my car got totalled and hence i couldnt use the same system in my baleno as i was a bit held up with finance for engine mods .. Now that said and done i have finally fixed the 5.5'' compos in the stock front door locations and also the MRV-f450 under the passengers seat just as a temporary placement until the great guns namely JB and gunman come to this part of the town and setup it up all over again for me .. Now what i would like to know is during the accident , to my bad luck one of the rear co-axials got damaged .. The damage though not much , im not quite sure if its in a usable condition .. Thus need ur views on this .. Posting a few pics of the speaker which shows the damage .. Kindly request u to advice me asap asto whether this thing can be repaired , if it will make a huge difference to the quality of sound if used like this only etc etc .. If not il have to go in for a new set of compos preferably 6.5'' up front and push the existing compos to the rear .. Sorry for the poor quality pics , taken from cell phone .. Also the existing system in the baleno will be : 1. Pioneer 7750 HU soon to be replaced with a kenwood HU .. 2. Hertz ESK-130 compo's at the front .. 3. Hertz ECX-165 coax if these are usable if not the ESK's will be used at the rear and HSK-165's at the front .. 4. Hertz ES-250D 10'' sub on the parcel tray .. Soon another 10'' will be joining this .. 5. Alpine MRV-F450 5ch alpine amp .. 6. Audison speaker cables from the existing setup in the zen .. 7. All new Audison 6ch interconnects for the alpine , so that it can be upgradable to the Audison- LRX 6 ch amp that im going to upgrade to soon .. PS : JB/gunbir pls carry along with u the 6ch interconnects for my POOR system .. Hope u guys wont forget it amidst KB1000000000000 ka maal dhamal .. PS 2 : To my luck i have found the tweeters .. Dad had left them in the subwoofer box .. Also whats the price of the banana plugs ?? The ones that were gifted to me are broken .. Also JB i would need the speaker grills .. __________________ Phoenix! Last edited by mclaren1885 : 8th July 2006 at 18:05.

8th July 2006, 20:50	#4 (permalink)
Bass&Trouble Senior - BHPian Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Bombay Posts: 2,296	Hi McLaren...I'm not a audio guru, but i'll give it a try!How did you manage to do that? Does the surround of the speaker foul with the screw hole causing the rubber to twist when you screw the speaker in? From your picture, it appears like it probably does. And probably, after installation the rubber remained turned like that for a long period of time to cause it to permanently deform, which you probably noticed when you took the speaker out? I notice the driver does not have a rubber or plastic trim ring to keep the surround edge secure. If it was there, and the cause is what i assume, this wouldn't happen. I'm sorry to observe that the driver is quite tackily built. The surround edge should ideally cover just the shore of the basket and not extend upto the fastening pcd unless the surround was punched with holes too. Also, the method employed to connect the leads to the tweeter is rather primitive, and a good design would pass the leads through the pole piece up to the tweeter post rather than punching holes and gluing on a part of the cone that is being used for sound reproduction. In any case, you have few choices. The more expensive one is to get a new speaker altogether, which is a total waste of money considering the only trouble you have is with the surround of one speaker. The other and more practical option is to get a recone kit for the driver in concern from Gunbir, and have the speaker reconed. The recone kit for a driver like that couldn't be more than $2. But I am worried, like I mentioned above, that speakers that are usually built like this, have fixed and undetachable tweeter posts that go in and are glued after the rest of the driver is fully assembled, and hence make reconing impossible. If this is the case, then the best thing to do is to take out the tweeters somehow even if it involves breaking the post, recone the driver, put a dust cap and use the tweeter after removing it from the post externally like a component set. So that would invlove plucking out the tweeter from the other speaker too. I don't think anything else other than this is possible. __________________ Operator! Give me the number for 911! Last edited by Bass&Trouble : 8th July 2006 at 20:51.

8th July 2006, 21:08	#5 (permalink)
mclaren1885 Senior - BHPian Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Bangalore (the city of modded cars) !! Posts: 3,993 View My Garage	Well actually it wasnt an installation problem at all .. The car met with an accident sometime back and got totalled during which time the parcel tray got a hit pretty badly and this was the end result (or so im guessing !!!) .. __________________ Phoenix!

9th July 2006, 14:32	#13 (permalink)
Sam Kapasi Distinguished - BHPian Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Bombay (but watch this space) Posts: 7,211 View My Garage	Mclaren, I didn't comment on this earlier for the same reason. You know what has happened to your speaker and I was 100% sure you had spoken to Gunbir and JB, who are not only experts on speakers as it is, but also the distributors of the product in question AND your pals. By posting this here, after speaking to them, you veritably question the rather credible advice they must have already given you. Secondly B&T, in my opinion your post was caustic and unnecessary. __________________ Live the YetiLife®

9th July 2006, 14:48	#14 (permalink)
Autophile BHPian Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: New Delhi Posts: 948	Hi McLaren...I'm not a audio guru, but i'll give it a try!How did you manage to do that? Does the surround of the speaker foul with the screw hole causing the rubber to twist when you screw the speaker in? From your picture, it appears like it probably does. And probably, after installation the rubber remained turned like that for a long period of time to cause it to permanently deform, which you probably noticed when you took the speaker out? B&T you have a nice explaination there but i have never experienced the situation you have mentioned above in my audio experience (both home and car). In which i have used a wide spectrum of products costing right from peanuts to ultra expensive. Maybe I have never come across so poorly designed product in my life. The installation was done my me personally I think that rules out your so called dramatic explaination. I notice the driver does not have a rubber or plastic trim ring to keep the surround edge secure. If it was there, and the cause is what i assume, this wouldn't happen. I'm sorry to observe that the driver is quite tackily built. The surround edge should ideally cover just the shore of the basket and not extend upto the fastening pcd unless the surround was punched with holes too. One of the most expensive speakers don't use the so called rubber or plastic trim. There is no need for the same if the manufacturer is confident about the glues they are using. The rubber/plastic ring is only required if you are mounting the driver behind the mounting baffle or to provide support for surround pastings in cheap drivers which I have never used. May be you have. Also, the method employed to connect the leads to the tweeter is rather primitive, and a good design would pass the leads through the pole piece up to the tweeter post rather than punching holes and gluing on a part of the cone that is being used for sound reproduction. In any case, you have few choices. Every manufacturer has its own design and way of manufacturing stuff. If it works, sounds great and have no reliability issues. I don't see any problems in it. I'm sorry to observe that the driver is quite tackily built What makes you say the above statement I really don't know. It can be any of the following reasons : 1. You have very good eyes to visualise the speakers build quality of a camera phone picture. 2. Peerless company has state of the art FEA software which can calculate the speakers build quality by reading from an image. 3. You have personally visited McLaren all the way to Bangalore for inspecting the damaged driver. The Hertz products absolutely don't have any issues related to maufacturing or design. Even if there will be any ever (though till date its zero) we are here to address it. I would suggest you pay attention to your products eventually thats whats benificial to you and your companys growth and business. Next time think before writing any such comment about our products because I will not tolerate it. __________________ Danes Don't Lie ! Last edited by Autophile : 9th July 2006 at 14:52.

8th July 2006, 18:07	#2 (permalink)
low_bass_makker Senior - BHPian Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Faridabad Posts: 6,042 View My Garage	IMHO get them changed ...........or they wil extra phuter phuter to the music......

8th July 2006, 18:14	#3 (permalink)
rsjaurr BHPian Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Batala Posts: 685	Not sure if it can be repaired but do check bcae1.com.One of page do give some information abt reparing spk.

8th July 2006, 21:27	#7 (permalink)
low_bass_makker Senior - BHPian Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Faridabad Posts: 6,042 View My Garage	mc laren first of all post some clear pics of the same so as we can understand the situation here. As B&T said while installing the speaker the rubber has been twisted which is a not good thing by design this happen to my woodstock sub when I used to tighten it to its enclousure the rubber surround used to get twisted. but there can be may reasons for this malfunction.... So as to get the clear picture to what has happend we need clear pics.... here are some pics of my pioneer 121spl sub who voice got damaged which I reparied and sold it and believe me it is still playing loud.....lol the basket another angle of the basket the voice coil in damaged another view status of the voice coil

9th July 2006, 01:36	#9 (permalink)
low_bass_makker Senior - BHPian Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Faridabad Posts: 6,042 View My Garage	no man at half price but was a good deal as the sub was already fused....

9th July 2006, 01:41	#11 (permalink)
low_bass_makker Senior - BHPian Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Faridabad Posts: 6,042 View My Garage	right now nothing at sale.........but surely do the same to inform u for the sale.......

9th July 2006, 15:35	#15 (permalink)
low_bass_makker Senior - BHPian Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Faridabad Posts: 6,042 View My Garage	oh ho yaar people mclaren had talked to the gunbir and jb that is all right what if mclaren had to get a second opinion from the other people on this forum. I think mclaren has done the right thing, But two thing he must have must have done to avoid this confusion first there should have been clear pics of the speaker showing the damage surround and the bent basket.....this should have cleared up the 90% of the problem. next he should not have stated name of the speaker manufacture because of which gunbir and jb are defending it right now. So mclaren please post good pics to support ur question and others on this forum will get some knowledge about what can be repaired and what cannot. If mclaren u r not interested mods please close down this theard as there is no point discussing it further.........

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