Subs (Active or Passive???)

[esteem_lover]

hi everyone,
i am thinking of a sub for my car...my question to all of you is, do i have to go for a active sub or a passive sub... i have a 4 ch amp which is presently driving my front & rear co-axials. what is the difference between these 2 subs & which one is best for me. Also check out these active subs from clarion & sony
clarion - http://www.clarion.com/sg/en/product...794080453.html

sony
http://www.sonyindia.co.in/static/Ca...subwoofer.html

If i should go for an active sub, where do place it??? & which of the 2 above is best ?

p.s.
Mods,i did try & search the forum for a similar discussion, but couldn't find one, so be kind to me, ok guys ??

(Here it goes...i got to be ready with another 15-20 k cash, i guess)

[navin]

Originally Posted by esteem_lover

hi everyone,
i am thinking of a sub for my car...my question to all of you is, do i have to go for a active sub or a passive sub...(Here it goes...i got to be ready with another 15-20 k cash, i guess)

Theoretically an active sub should outperform a passive sub and more importantly a active sub should even outperform an amplified sub however that is theory. I have found that in many active subs a good amp is mated to a bad woofer and you end up with less than mediocre sound. IN any case all subs need amplifiers even "passive subs" would need an external amplifier.

When a manfcturer is designing a amp-sub combination the manufacturer has an opportunity to design the amp and sub to suit each other allowing the manufacturer better control. Some companies do take advantage of this such as Velodyne, REL, and Carver's Sunfire subs but these are all home audio examples.

Few car audio companies are so inclined. Hence if one takes a good amp and mates it to a good subwoofer one can get a decent combination. For example JBL makes a decent mono block in the 301.1. They also make a decent VFM woofer in the GT 4-12 and 4-15 as well as some boxed woofers. Now if they took the 301.1 tuned it to work better with their woofers and integrated the whole into one decent active package.

I had the opportunity to take apart a Sunfire subwoofer. Carver had effectively taken a very ordinanry amplifier tuned it to work with a subwoofer that had shortcomings but whose shortcomings were compensated for by the amplifier and voila the package made good bass for it's size & cost.

For 15-20K I'd get a good 12" woofer (you can get a boxed one for about 8K etc..) mate it to a good 2o0-300W amp and be done with it. For example the JBLL 12" box woofer and 301.1 amp used in my example above might fit your budget (along with many other comobinations).

[esteem_lover]

Originally Posted by navin

Theoretically an active sub should outperform a passive sub and more importantly a active sub should even outperform an amplified sub however that is theory. I have found that in many active subs a good amp is mated to a bad woofer and you end up with less than mediocre sound. IN any case all subs need amplifiers even "passive subs" would need an external amplifier.

When a manfcturer is designing a amp-sub combination the manufacturer has an opportunity to design the amp and sub to suit each other allowing the manufacturer better control. Some companies do take advantage of this such as Velodyne, REL, and Carver's Sunfire subs but these are all home audio examples.

Few car audio companies are so inclined. Hence if one takes a good amp and mates it to a good subwoofer one can get a decent combination. For example JBL makes a decent mono block in the 301.1. They also make a decent VFM woofer in the GT 4-12 and 4-15 as well as some boxed woofers. Now if they took the 301.1 tuned it to work better with their woofers and integrated the whole into one decent active package.

I had the opportunity to take apart a Sunfire subwoofer. Carver had effectively taken a very ordinanry amplifier tuned it to work with a subwoofer that had shortcomings but whose shortcomings were compensated for by the amplifier and voila the package made good bass for it's size & cost.

For 15-20K I'd get a good 12" woofer (you can get a boxed one for about 8K etc..) mate it to a good 2o0-300W amp and be done with it. For example the JBLL 12" box woofer and 301.1 amp used in my example above might fit your budget (along with many other comobinations).

thanks navin,
1. where can i place the boxed sub ? i have seen it being placed in the boot & a 8" hole is cut out of the tray....is that how it should be ???

2. Sony's active sub is available for 9k...is that a good deal..?? which would suit me better ??? going active or passive with the existing amp or adding another amp ???

help me out please

[navin]

I would not recommend the Sony sub.

If your budget is 10K a Sony 552/502 amp mated to a Pio 306C in a 1.2 cu. ft. selaed box would be a better bet.

as far as cutting that hole is concerned first install the sub inthe boot and see if that works for you. If not even a smaller 5-6" hole (covered by a grill) will vent the bass into the cabin. Your installer will have many 5-6" grills available. My installer lets me rummage though their bins to find grills I like.

[anToNIcHeN]

This is just my opinion....
Going for an active sub... you are like buying an amp + sub at one go.. and in between if you want to change just the sub (you are not happy with the sound etc..) .... it may not be possible change and get a perfect replacement.....
like navin pointed out... active sub.. the manufacturer would have put in most efficent components together to get a better sounding system....

But my take is that... i would go for a passive sub woofer... so i always have better option in mix and matching the amp - sub combination....

regards,
ant.

[esteem_lover]

Originally Posted by navin

I would not recommend the Sony sub.

If your budget is 10K a Sony 552/502 amp mated to a Pio 306C in a 1.2 cu. ft. selaed box would be a better bet.

as far as cutting that hole is concerned first install the sub inthe boot and see if that works for you. If not even a smaller 5-6" hole (covered by a grill) will vent the bass into the cabin. Your installer will have many 5-6" grills available. My installer lets me rummage though their bins to find grills I like.

i have a lpg tank in my boot...so i guess that would be a hindrance in installing the sub in the boot...are there different subs for installing in the box and in tray ??? if so, how much of sq will be compromising in going for a sub on the tray ???

[anToNIcHeN]

By "tray" did you mean the back panel ( i dont know the correct terminology) where you mount the coaxial speakers?...this is gonna be a bad idea...... you need to make sure that space in the boot is tightly sealed (air tight).... that way the entire boot is gonna act like a gaint enclosure for the sub....

if you dont do this.... you may not get the "punch" in the bass....

Do take a look at the following url...
http://mobile.jlaudio.com/support_pages.php?page_id=141

This is taken from JL audio webste
This teaches the importance and basics of sub woofer enclosure....


regards,
ant.

[rsjaurr]

Originally Posted by esteem_lover

i have a lpg tank in my boot...so i guess that would be a hindrance in installing the sub in the boot...are there different subs for installing in the box and in tray ??? if so, how much of sq will be compromising in going for a sub on the tray ???

subs r available for installing in box and on tray [free air].

If u r looking for pur SQ and not SPL,sealed box is the way to go,otherwise ported box if want some SPL.

20k is good budget for mono amp+subw combo and lots of choices which include kicker/JBL/ID subw with JBL,audison or sony SD series mono amplifier.

[jkdas]

Sub in the tray = IB install. You will haev to seal the boot efficiently for this though. How abt a spare wheel well sub install. Stealth, space saver.. search for it or SWWS

[low_bass_makker]

lover man go for a passive setup get a pioneer 510 amp it is for 10k and get a good sub like jbl and make a sealed box as recommend by the manufacturere and vola u will be make good bass out of it...........

[navin]

a sub with an amp is not passive. it is an amplified sub. a passive sub is one that does not have a dedicated amp. rarely found in car audio.

[low_bass_makker]

navin ji i said passive setup not a passive sub. in which a dedicated amp must be used.....

[Bass&Trouble]

Sorry for interrupting guys, but let me make some interpretations.

Active and passive subs are classified so only from a product classification for configuration point of view. In reality, no subs are passive, unless they are passive radiators. Likewise if there's a channel of amplication driving a sub, it's not necessarily an active sub.

An active sub can be defined as a subwoofer unit, usually an enclosed subwoofer unit with the exception of in-wall subs, which is supplied by a manufacturer with a matching power amplifier on board.

LBM, by passive sub what Navin means to say is that the sub in concern will be driven by a full-range amp, but through a passive low-pass crossover network. The same amp may or may not be employed for driving speakers playing different frequency regions as well. Internally, an active sub could have a passive filter for the sub rather than an electronic LPF circuit, but this is not common in home and car both, and the sub would still be called an active sub. Both active and passive subs can be used for mono or stereo application.

[navin]

Originally Posted by Bass&Trouble

...An active sub can be defined as a subwoofer unit, usually an enclosed subwoofer unit with the exception of in-wall subs, which is supplied by a manufacturer with a matching power amplifier on board...

and dipoles too!

[Bass&Trouble]

Originally Posted by navin

and dipoles too!

Ahh yes...open baffle loudpspeakers!

But I haven't seen an active one. Just auditoned the Jamo 909 at their launch recently. Couldn't say I was very thoroughy impressed, although most international reviews seemed to indicate otherwise.