Santro - Pioneer Amp GM-7200M Upgrade - Team-BHP

madbullram · 25th October 2006, 00:14

Hi Folks,
Well, I was toying wiht the idea of buying a new car and have deserted it and decided to stick to my Santro for next 2 years and then buy a car (so that I can afford 8 lakhs budget). Now, I have decided to change my ICE. I have a Santro Xing XP 2003 model.

The current ICE:
1. Alpine TDM-7574 Casette Unit
2. Kenwood 200 W (Max power) 3-Way Oval rear Speakers
3. Kenwood 80W Round front speakers
4. Pioneer TS-S20 50W Nominal Output Tweeters

Now, I am looking at upgrading my ICE, following are my consideration:

I am going to buy the ICE and will be moving the same unit to the Sedan which I will be buying in 2 years (will sell the current ICE with my Santro).

1. First step is to buy a Mono amp and Sub and fit it to my existing system (Budget 15K to 16k)
2. Second step (after 2 months so I get my bank balance back

), buy a good Head Unit with Sub control and good Oval 3-Way or 4-Way rear speakers (Budget 10 - 12K max)

3. Now this step is after I buy the sedan, I will go for a 4 Channel Amp with Crossover for the Front speakers, which will complete the ICE for me with Crossover for front and Oval for rear powered by a Four Channel Amp and the Sub powered by a Mono amp.

This is my thought process guys, I know its too future focussed, but I want to plan and build my ICE so I dont burn a big hole in my pocket.

Now, lets see Step 1:
AMp: Pioneer GM-7200M Mono Amp
Sub: Pioneer TS-W306C in 40 Litre enclosure with a Port
The cost for this including installation works to 15.5 K (the wiring kit used is Boss). This is grey market stuff but from a dealer who is a friend of mine.

Please pour your thoughts and suggestion for Step 1 and 2.

Sorry for the deatiled post

Cheers!
Ram

low_bass_makker · 25th October 2006, 00:57

instead of 7200 mono amp get pioneer d510 amp it is a better than the earlier. the sub is fine but you can get get better options also in this range....listen to jbl , alpine......

Just how did u calculated the volume of the box and which port you are going to used....

also dump the boss kit as it has more rubber than the copper in it.....

madbullram · 25th October 2006, 01:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by low_bass_makker

instead of 7200 mono amp get pioneer d510 amp it is a better than the earlier. the sub is fine but you can get get better options also in this range....listen to jbl , alpine......

Just how did u calculated the volume of the box and which port you are going to used....

also dump the boss kit as it has more rubber than the copper in it.....

Hi Low Bass,
Thanks for the suggestion mate. I know D150m is a good amp and that too a Class D amp but its out of my budget as it sells for 12k whereas 7200 is 8.5 K.

The enclosure calculation was done by the installer and will try to post specifics.

Dumped Boss how much should I keep for a good wiring kit? I am looking a JBL dealer in Chennai any pointers?

CHeers!

hydrashok · 25th October 2006, 08:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by madbullram

Sorry for the deatiled post

Don't be! Detailed is better. Everyone knows exacly what you want.

1. Good move! Lots of options here. If you buy Pioneer, regardless of how close you are to your dealer, you are likely to get fake stuff. So beware!

My suggestion: Sub: JBL CS1204B (with BOX) or JBL CS1204T (bass tube). Either option will save you the hassle of getting a separate box made.
Amp: JBL 300.1 (Mono Amp). These should keep within your budget.

And buddy, best avoid BOSS cables. Go for better quality ones from Audison or JBL.

2. If you have a sub in the boot, spending extra on 6x9s are a waste. You'll need just a set of 5.25" or 6" co-axials in the back.

3. The 4-channel amp plan is good. You'll need crossovers only if you plan on components speakers. Most comps come with crossovers as part of the kit. Otherwise, most amps have internal hi-pass/low-pass crossovers built in.

Suggestion: Get rid of the TS-20s. They will ruin the overall sound. Tooooooo bright.

You can do a Dealer search for JBL on www.fxaudio.com

navin · 25th October 2006, 11:13

Given that you have a Cassette player as your HU I'd get the CD Hu first. then the sub/mono amp and then the 4 ch. amp and components.

since you have a sub you can save 1-2K by getting 6" coax instead of 6x9s for the rear. the sub will perfrom most of the bass duties.

For 10K you have a wide range of HUs. If you are considering Pioneer please ensure you get a BILL and a MANUFACTURERS warranty. Sony, Blaupunkt, etc.. also are nice.

For 17K you can consider a JBL 1200B mated to a Pio 7200M. The JBL 301.1 and 300.1 amps might cost a bit more.

madbullram · 25th October 2006, 11:33

Hydrasok and Navin thanks for the inputs. I am combining my replies as you both have suggested similar thoughts.

I checked with CATS in chennai, the JBL 300.1 and JBL CS1204B costs around 18K plus 3K for the wiring and 1 k for installation which is around 22K overshoots my budget by 4k :(

I am dropping the idea of 6*9 and will go with 6" coax for the rear. Now what about the front? Do you think a crossover will help?

Pioneer 7200-M the piece is a made in China one brought by a friend. How good is the amp?

The reason for BOSS cable is, anyway I am going to see moving the system in 2 yrs, I am not sure if I can use the same cable in the new sedan so was thinking should I spend 3K on the wiring kit now...

Thanks again...

madbullram · 25th October 2006, 11:34

Also, any suggestions on the head unit Sony or Alpine (been a loyal Alpiner till now and love the crisp sound of it). Its almost next to impossible to get a Pioneer HU with B&W in Chennai :(

madbullram · 25th October 2006, 11:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by navin

Given that you have a Cassette player as your HU I'd get the CD Hu first.

Navin,
Specific to the head unit, I was thinking of this. My Alpine comes with provision for attaching a CD changer. Now, I was thinking of buying a Ai-Net to RCA cable, attach my iPod to it.

The cable:
http://cgi.ebay.com/Alpine-Ai-Net-to...QQcmdZViewItem

What do you think? Wont I get the same stereo quality of iPod through the Alpine HU?

hydrashok · 25th October 2006, 12:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by madbullram

Now what about the front? Do you think a crossover will help?

For best results in the front, you wil need component speakers. I think the Kenwood currently in the front is a full range speaker with a whizzer cone, (and not a co-axial) right? You'll need to chuck them and buy components (Midbass driver + Tweeter + crossover). Adding a crossover and tweeter to the current set-up is possible, but I wouldn't recommend that at all.

~~We folks here at the ICE section are notorious for blowing all reasonable budgets to bits, so please exercise caution. Budgetbreakers ahead!

~~

For components, I would recommend JBL or Hertz.
JBL = GTO507 (5.25" comps) or GTO607 (6" comps)
Hertz = DSK130 (5.25" comp) or DSK165 (6" comps)

Now, both these options (if you choose the 5.25" comps) will eat about half your budget for HU + speakers. You will need a serious budget upgrade if you plan to change your front speakers and HU. In any case, if you are changing speakers, change the front speakers first and not the rear speakers. Just changing the front speakers to comps will make a dramatic improvement.

Suggestions for upgrades:

STAGE 1: I think if you are open to upgrading in stages (which you seem to be), you should follow Navin's advice and change the HU to an MP3/CD unit first. The best options are the ones he's mentioned. Since you are an Alpiner, go for Alpine! (I'm not too familiar with model nos of HUs, so please excuse). For future expansion you should have at least 2 pre-outs (ideally 2 pre-outs + 1 sub out). This should not be a problem at a 10-12K budget (for HU alone).

STAGE 2: Add a sub and amp. (A bridgeable 4-channel amp, if you can afford a 4-ch at this stage, so you can also drive the front comps you are going to add next)

STAGE 3: Upgrade your front speakers to components. Drive them with 2 channels of the 4 ch amp. Bridge 2 channels and drive the sub (you will lose a little bass as you lose 2 channels-worth of power).

STAGE 4: Change your rear speakers to co-axials - preferably & ideally of the same brand & series as your front comps. Drive the rear speakers with your HU. [If you would like to spend MORE, get a monoblock amp to drive the sub, and drive the rear-speakers from the 2 freed-up channels in the 4-ch amp you bought in Stage 2 - if you did buy one].

Stop here.

You can choose what you want to do first. But, if you are getting comps for the front, you should try and drive them with an amp, to get the best out of them. Take your time upgrading. You can even do a couple of stages after you get a new car. Always buy stuff you are going to keep for quite a while. Even if you have to wait a little and get good items. Resale value of ICE stuff is the pits (from my experience).

And last but not least, don't just blindly listen to what we say on the forum. Adjust your budget to your requirements. Don't go overboard and buy stuff you really don't need.

navin · 25th October 2006, 13:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by madbullram

Navin,
Specific to the head unit, I was thinking of this. My Alpine comes with provision for attaching a CD changer. Now, I was thinking of buying a Ai-Net to RCA cable, attach my iPod to it.

What do you think? Wont I get the same stereo quality of iPod through the Alpine HU?

you might need a KCA 420i as well. Consult Alpine before you buy the wrong connectors I am not too familiar with the TDM series.

Well recorded MP3s can offer a decent alternate in the car envrionment. THis is not to say that MP3 = CD quality. Even 256k VBR using a good processor and encoder cannot equate to CD but in a car under usual driving with traffic and other distractions it wont be noticeable most of the time.

navin · 25th October 2006, 13:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by madbullram

Pioneer 7200-M the piece is a made in China one brought by a friend. How good is the amp?...

Dont know. China makes good and bad stuff. If it is an orignal Pio with Pio QC it should be ok. If it is a duplicate all bets are off.

If you cant afford better cables consider MX. Atleast you wont be getting junk.

BTW Monster and Twister RCA are available at about 1400/pr.

madbullram · 25th October 2006, 13:13

Hydrashok thanks again mate. Very detailed and cleared many doubts.

The thing is, I don't want to go for Crossover front for my Santro bcos I can go for 5.25 and when I buy a Sedan if the provision is for 6 I am going to lose out on it. So I am thinking will go for Cross over when I buy the sedan. Thats why I had moved Crossover and 4 -Channel Amp as Step 3.

Right now I am thinking of living with the front Kenwood round ones (not co-axial I think) and depend on the Pioneer s20 for high freq :(

Head unit: Did you see my prev post on connecting my iPod to Alpine using the Ai-net / RCA cable...what do you think?

Thanks for the las line suggestion

...I also believe the same, Sound and Art are similar whats good for one might be good for another. I am eating your brains so I can make an informed decision. The reason I bought the Kenwood Speaker setup in Santro with Alpine HU bcos it sounded good than Alpine Speaker setup. But now I am repenting it, after 3 years of nominal usage (car has done only 20k kms) the speakers have become bad...if I had gone for the Alpine I am sure the would have lasted longer...

Thanks again man...gosh nevre thought will get suggestion that too in detail so sooooon

madbullram · 25th October 2006, 13:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by navin

you might need a KCA 420i as well. Consult Alpine before you buy the wrong connectors I am not too familiar with the TDM series.

Thanks Navin, from what i understood from Alpine sites and FAQs is that KCA 420i gives iPod control via the HU. Also, it charges the iPod. I can live without these features so was thinking of directly connection the iPod to the CD changer Ai-net port.

low_bass_makker · 25th October 2006, 13:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by madbullram

I know D150m is a good amp and that too a Class D amp but its out of my budget as it sells for 12k whereas 7200 is 8.5 K.

the d510 is for 10-10.5 k not for 12k

rsjaurr · 25th October 2006, 13:42

Ram,dont be sorry.Infact it was so well written that experts dint had to ask u anyhting after ur 1st post.

My personel opinion is that you r on right track with ur gradual upgradation.
Go for sub+mono amp now with boss kit and then after 2 months install decent HU+front components speakers[which will have x-overs] as well and then u can add rear coax and a 4-ch amp.
Dont go for door spk before u buy new car as santro wont take >5.25" size spk wihtout modification but new car may take.

B U T my only worry is that ram,dont u think 2 yr is bit too long period to upgrade ur ICE!!

25th October 2006, 11:13	#5 (permalink)
navin Team-BHP Support Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: mumbai Posts: 12,576	Given that you have a Cassette player as your HU I'd get the CD Hu first. then the sub/mono amp and then the 4 ch. amp and components. since you have a sub you can save 1-2K by getting 6" coax instead of 6x9s for the rear. the sub will perfrom most of the bass duties. For 10K you have a wide range of HUs. If you are considering Pioneer please ensure you get a BILL and a MANUFACTURERS warranty. Sony, Blaupunkt, etc.. also are nice. For 17K you can consider a JBL 1200B mated to a Pio 7200M. The JBL 301.1 and 300.1 amps might cost a bit more. __________________ Scixelsyd Etinu

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25th October 2006, 00:14	#1 (permalink)
madbullram BHPian Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Chennai & Appleton, WI Posts: 316 View My Garage	Hi Folks, Well, I was toying wiht the idea of buying a new car and have deserted it and decided to stick to my Santro for next 2 years and then buy a car (so that I can afford 8 lakhs budget). Now, I have decided to change my ICE. I have a Santro Xing XP 2003 model. The current ICE: 1. Alpine TDM-7574 Casette Unit 2. Kenwood 200 W (Max power) 3-Way Oval rear Speakers 3. Kenwood 80W Round front speakers 4. Pioneer TS-S20 50W Nominal Output Tweeters Now, I am looking at upgrading my ICE, following are my consideration: I am going to buy the ICE and will be moving the same unit to the Sedan which I will be buying in 2 years (will sell the current ICE with my Santro). 1. First step is to buy a Mono amp and Sub and fit it to my existing system (Budget 15K to 16k) 2. Second step (after 2 months so I get my bank balance back ), buy a good Head Unit with Sub control and good Oval 3-Way or 4-Way rear speakers (Budget 10 - 12K max) 3. Now this step is after I buy the sedan, I will go for a 4 Channel Amp with Crossover for the Front speakers, which will complete the ICE for me with Crossover for front and Oval for rear powered by a Four Channel Amp and the Sub powered by a Mono amp. This is my thought process guys, I know its too future focussed, but I want to plan and build my ICE so I dont burn a big hole in my pocket. Now, lets see Step 1: AMp: Pioneer GM-7200M Mono Amp Sub: Pioneer TS-W306C in 40 Litre enclosure with a Port The cost for this including installation works to 15.5 K (the wiring kit used is Boss). This is grey market stuff but from a dealer who is a friend of mine. Please pour your thoughts and suggestion for Step 1 and 2. Sorry for the deatiled post Cheers! Ram

25th October 2006, 00:57	#2 (permalink)
low_bass_makker Senior - BHPian Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Faridabad Posts: 6,042 View My Garage	instead of 7200 mono amp get pioneer d510 amp it is a better than the earlier. the sub is fine but you can get get better options also in this range....listen to jbl , alpine...... Just how did u calculated the volume of the box and which port you are going to used.... also dump the boss kit as it has more rubber than the copper in it.....

25th October 2006, 11:33	#6 (permalink)
madbullram BHPian Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Chennai & Appleton, WI Posts: 316 View My Garage	Hydrasok and Navin thanks for the inputs. I am combining my replies as you both have suggested similar thoughts. I checked with CATS in chennai, the JBL 300.1 and JBL CS1204B costs around 18K plus 3K for the wiring and 1 k for installation which is around 22K overshoots my budget by 4k :( I am dropping the idea of 6*9 and will go with 6" coax for the rear. Now what about the front? Do you think a crossover will help? Pioneer 7200-M the piece is a made in China one brought by a friend. How good is the amp? The reason for BOSS cable is, anyway I am going to see moving the system in 2 yrs, I am not sure if I can use the same cable in the new sedan so was thinking should I spend 3K on the wiring kit now... Thanks again...

25th October 2006, 11:34	#7 (permalink)
madbullram BHPian Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Chennai & Appleton, WI Posts: 316 View My Garage	Also, any suggestions on the head unit Sony or Alpine (been a loyal Alpiner till now and love the crisp sound of it). Its almost next to impossible to get a Pioneer HU with B&W in Chennai :(

25th October 2006, 13:13	#12 (permalink)
madbullram BHPian Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Chennai & Appleton, WI Posts: 316 View My Garage	Hydrashok thanks again mate. Very detailed and cleared many doubts. The thing is, I don't want to go for Crossover front for my Santro bcos I can go for 5.25 and when I buy a Sedan if the provision is for 6 I am going to lose out on it. So I am thinking will go for Cross over when I buy the sedan. Thats why I had moved Crossover and 4 -Channel Amp as Step 3. Right now I am thinking of living with the front Kenwood round ones (not co-axial I think) and depend on the Pioneer s20 for high freq :( Head unit: Did you see my prev post on connecting my iPod to Alpine using the Ai-net / RCA cable...what do you think? Thanks for the las line suggestion ...I also believe the same, Sound and Art are similar whats good for one might be good for another. I am eating your brains so I can make an informed decision. The reason I bought the Kenwood Speaker setup in Santro with Alpine HU bcos it sounded good than Alpine Speaker setup. But now I am repenting it, after 3 years of nominal usage (car has done only 20k kms) the speakers have become bad...if I had gone for the Alpine I am sure the would have lasted longer... Thanks again man...gosh nevre thought will get suggestion that too in detail so sooooon

25th October 2006, 13:42	#15 (permalink)
rsjaurr BHPian Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Batala Posts: 685	Ram,dont be sorry.Infact it was so well written that experts dint had to ask u anyhting after ur 1st post. My personel opinion is that you r on right track with ur gradual upgradation. Go for sub+mono amp now with boss kit and then after 2 months install decent HU+front components speakers[which will have x-overs] as well and then u can add rear coax and a 4-ch amp. Dont go for door spk before u buy new car as santro wont take >5.25" size spk wihtout modification but new car may take. B U T my only worry is that ram,dont u think 2 yr is bit too long period to upgrade ur ICE!!