Concert hall in a Safari? - Page 2 - Team-BHP

Autophile · 13th April 2007, 14:14

The horns have good off axis response as it uses the dash as surface which acts as a extended horn. The dash actually plays a big role in achieving the best out of horns.

If you tilt the horns upwards they will sound unnatural and fatiguing because of the following

1. Difference in radiation plane from the mid bass.

2. Horns will end up as direct throw high sensitivity driver which will result in bad sound stage and fatigue as there will be less absorption of sound generally aided by floor carpet/seats etc in case they are mounted parallel.

3. In case of horns facing upwards the sound will be affected because of horizontal reflections because of dash / door pads etc which will result in poor soundstage and imaging. In case or parallel installation they are off axis from the listening position.

So in installation of horns it is very imp. that horns are parallel to the floor.

The dash is the main key in installing the horns. The lip of horns should be in line with the dash without any gaps between horn body and the dash, should be absolutely parallel to the floor and there should be good separation between the horns for better imaging (larger cars are better). Ideally the horns should be at the same level but like you said it is tough in some cars as dash build is different on driver side than passenger side. To correct that EQ and phasing comes in play.

With horns you need to have high power midbasses or multiples to achieve proper integration with horn's SPL. Same goes for subwoofers.

v1p3r · 13th April 2007, 14:15

What are horns?!

..........

low_bass_makker · 13th April 2007, 14:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by v1p3r

What are horns?!

..........

they look like this....

they produce the mids and higher frequency sounds...so they help in making the sound stage better if installed correctly.....

I would say the horns must be installed a bit towards facing the listener ear as it will be better....about the fatigue part it can be due to incorrect tweeter tuning and install also....as the horns are used in active setups they can be easily intergrated into the sound of the rest of the dirvers used......whether there are multiple mid bass or subs.....

about the Difference in radiation plane from the mid bass....how come the little facing up will make the differnce as the plane of the mid bass and the horns is 90 degree in the first place......as the midbass are in the door and the horn are genrally under the dash.....

v1p3r · 13th April 2007, 15:02

Looks like a gramaphone player to me! I should stay away from this section!

Bass&Trouble · 13th April 2007, 15:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by v1p3r

Looks like a gramaphone player to me! I should stay away from this section!

Arre, dont mind me and JB getting a bit horny!

I think Roots and Stobel or both make those horns which look like a snails shell. That is a ..uh..horn-loaded horn? This is similar item. Instead of the horn diaphragm inside, we pop in a compression tweeter, and make a big fuss about it and quote $1000 to unsuspecting customers. Nothing to get worried about.

gunbir · 13th April 2007, 16:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by low_bass_makker

I would say the horns must be installed a bit towards facing the listener ear as it will be better....about the fatigue part it can be due to incorrect tweeter tuning and install also....as the horns are used in active setups they can be easily intergrated into the sound of the rest of the dirvers used......whether there are multiple mid bass or subs.....

Ummm... No... The horn mouth is where most of the R&D goes in (especially in car audio horns). The shape of the horn is directing dispersion and it is designed NOT to be angled/tilted manually, but to rather use the dash as an extension, hence staging and imaging high on your dash. Different horns can have very different output with the same driver. At least with iD horns, tilting/angling them is not necessary.

If you have carefully chosen your electronics and cables, installed your horns properly and tuned the system well (this is where the real challenge is with horns), then fatigue is almost non existent. And as far as integrating drivers (midbass, subs) is concerned, we aren't talking about level or phase matching, but rather... efficiency matching of drivers.

And as JB already knows, after spending a LOT of money and time on high end conventional drivers, I have realised I'm a horny kinda guy. I'm going back to my CD2comps. The impact, imaging, realism they had is unmatched for me till date. So they'll be going back in and they shall be in there for a long long time to come...

zucchero · 13th April 2007, 16:55

how do you tune a tweeter??do you play with the crossovers or its sumthing else

low_bass_makker · 13th April 2007, 23:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by gunbir

And as JB already knows, after spending a LOT of money and time on high end conventional drivers, I have realised I'm a horny kinda guy. I'm going back to my CD2comps. The impact, imaging, realism they had is unmatched for me till date. So they'll be going back in and they shall be in there for a long long time to come...

so are we gonna here the horns tomm at the meet.....

gunbir · 14th April 2007, 02:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by low_bass_makker

so are we gonna here the horns tomm at the meet.....

Not yet my friend. Once again I'm running a temp system right now... Horns will go in as soon as we get some spare time to work on the car. Right now some other interesting projects are in the works. Tomorrow is your day

moralfibre · 14th April 2007, 02:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by gunbir

Not yet my friend. Once again I'm running a temp system right now... Horns will go in as soon as we get some spare time to work on the car. Right now some other interesting projects are in the works. Tomorrow is your day

Gunbir, are horns the same devices that are mounted on band baaja cars. They are almost conical in shape with a tapering end and a circular side where the name of the band baaja is written?

Of course what you are pointing towards must be a sophisticated version of this device?

Please correct me if I am wrong here.

v1p3r · 14th April 2007, 03:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bass&Trouble

I think Roots and Stobel or both make those horns which look like a snails shell.

It's called the Stobel Nautilus. Now don't ask me how I know that!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bass&Trouble

make a big fuss about it and quote $1000 to unsuspecting customers.

Maybe I should start hanging around ICE more. Seems like all the ICErs drive nice cars (except B&T), and us engine-wallahs have to scringe around for bus fare.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bass&Trouble

Arre, dont mind me and JB getting a bit horny!

Quote:

Originally Posted by gunbir

I'm a horny kinda guy.

Great. Now the Yeti will show up and parade around minimally clothed. Things are getting spICEy.

navin · 14th April 2007, 10:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by v1p3r

...Now the Yeti will show up and parade around minimally clothed.

Ugh! banish that thought!

DerAlte · 14th April 2007, 11:53

Thanks, everyone, keep the ideas flowing ...

Quote:

Originally Posted by navin

You trying to imitate Sam? Seems to be a trend nowadays.

He did a damn good 'music' transliteration in one of the posts - Reference material. If Mr. Icy 'Nasal' Silkdealer wants to do a sequel to Shaka-laka-whatever, he can commission Sam for the lyrics!

Quote:

Originally Posted by navin

However having multiple 8" woofers has it's own advatanges.

I know there is more to it. Waiting for the continuation with baited breath, Navin-ji ...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Autophile

To get best out of horns one has to use them active as there is no passive sets as horns needs lot of tuning and EQ. Once properly set up they can reproducing amazing SQ with mind blowing scale.

The horns are in the range of Rs 20,000 to Rs 65,000.

OK, that ain't too bad. Sure, I need to save up some more.

Practical problem: where would I put the EQ if I have only 1DIN space?
Or would the HU's build-in EQ serve the purpose? Which would be a good HU in that scenario?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steeroid

The ECu doesnt really take all that much space - I put one amp and 4 rather large crossovers under that driver's seat....

Wow! Would love to see photos of you install. Wiring must have been quite a challenge. How did you mount the compos on the doors?

Quote:

Originally Posted by gunbir

And as far as integrating drivers (midbass, subs) is concerned, we aren't talking about level or phase matching, but rather... efficiency matching of drivers.

What would be your recommendation for the drivers? And where in Bangalore can one see the ID horns?

v1p3r · 14th April 2007, 19:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by DerAlte

Mr. Icy 'Nasal' Silkdealer

.................

Bass&Trouble · 15th April 2007, 18:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by v1p3r

.................

See? Didn't I tell you hanging around us ICE folks is gonna be fun?

13th April 2007, 14:14	#16 (permalink)
Autophile BANNED Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: New Delhi Posts: 948	The horns have good off axis response as it uses the dash as surface which acts as a extended horn. The dash actually plays a big role in achieving the best out of horns. If you tilt the horns upwards they will sound unnatural and fatiguing because of the following 1. Difference in radiation plane from the mid bass. 2. Horns will end up as direct throw high sensitivity driver which will result in bad sound stage and fatigue as there will be less absorption of sound generally aided by floor carpet/seats etc in case they are mounted parallel. 3. In case of horns facing upwards the sound will be affected because of horizontal reflections because of dash / door pads etc which will result in poor soundstage and imaging. In case or parallel installation they are off axis from the listening position. So in installation of horns it is very imp. that horns are parallel to the floor. The dash is the main key in installing the horns. The lip of horns should be in line with the dash without any gaps between horn body and the dash, should be absolutely parallel to the floor and there should be good separation between the horns for better imaging (larger cars are better). Ideally the horns should be at the same level but like you said it is tough in some cars as dash build is different on driver side than passenger side. To correct that EQ and phasing comes in play. With horns you need to have high power midbasses or multiples to achieve proper integration with horn's SPL. Same goes for subwoofers. Last edited by Autophile : 13th April 2007 at 14:15.

13th April 2007, 14:15	#17 (permalink)
v1p3r Senior - BHPian Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: BLR - chasing cars... Posts: 4,147 View My Garage	What are horns?! .......... __________________ *I've lost my phone. Please PM me your phone number if I'm on your contact list.*

13th April 2007, 15:02	#19 (permalink)
v1p3r Senior - BHPian Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: BLR - chasing cars... Posts: 4,147 View My Garage	Looks like a gramaphone player to me! I should stay away from this section! __________________ *I've lost my phone. Please PM me your phone number if I'm on your contact list.*

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13th April 2007, 16:55	#22 (permalink)
zucchero BHPian Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: faridabad/rourkela Posts: 211	how do you tune a tweeter??do you play with the crossovers or its sumthing else