ICE- (Old) NHC - Help and Suggestions needed - Team-BHP

d.kiran · 25th May 2007, 02:00

Hi Guys,

My first posting. I have been a lurker here for quite some time. Anyway I have just recently purchased a second hand Honda City (Well.. Actually, it was a down payment for a new Civic and I get to keep the old car :-)).

Anyway back to the subject matter, I am thinking of upgrading my car audio right now. The stereo is a Pioneer HU (which replaced the cassete playing Alpine) and the speakers are all the stock ones.

The setup will be the usual recommended setup.

Front: Components (Currently have decided on GTO607c. Will this fit withouth modifying the door panels? If not, what is the size that fits and any suggestions for the same?)

Rear: Co-axials (I have not decided this as I am not sure whether they will fit in the stock slots in the rear. Can you please suggest the correct size so that I can listen to a few? Any suggestions about the speakers itself would be welcome)

Amplifier: 4-Channel (JBL GTo75.4). I beleive that is a nice balance of 4 channel power and cost. As usual the two channels will be used to drive the components and the other two channels will be used drive the sub. I am in the UK currently and it is available for £100. Is there anything else I could look at in the same price range?

Subwoofer: This is the one thing I am not sure about at all. To be honest, I am quite familiar with Home Theater speakers, but car stuff with the multiple enclosures slightly throws me off. I have heard a few cars with wooden type enclosures and they sound too boxy ( I am not sure if I can convey this correctly). What I am looking for is neat and punchy bass. I am not very worried about the lower frequencies, but that is always good to have. I am looking for a compromise between lower frequencies and extremely quick and punchy bass.

The main problem I have is with the music I listen to. I listen to a wide variety of music from Hindi Classics, ghazals to English Classics, New Age instrumentals and Symphonies depending on my mood. In my home theater set up, getting a balance has been excruciating to say the least. I can set it up to get a decent bass and crystal clear highs and then comes Lata Mangeshkar with her glorious highs and a totally horrible recording from 1950s that threatens to rip my ears apart. Or some cases, deep voices becoming too muddy or bassy and lacking definition.

I am not sure if I am nitpicking here, but I will be spending 4 hours every day in my car commuting and I want to be relaxed when I get to work.

Can someone please help me out in choosing this?

HeadUnit: I think this might be controversial, but I skimped on this. I bought a dual in dash DVD system from US Dual Electronics - In-Dash Mobile Video - XDVD8182
I figured most of the sound would be coming from the amp, so the deficiencies in the sound quality would be covered by the amp. And not to mention it looks cool for the price. I had a look at it in the flesh and it looks pretty well made. This will be powering my rears.

I would very much appreciate it if you can help me out. I am in the UK currently so if there are any brands that are not available in India but available in Europe, please suggest. I am thinking around £500 (40000) budget.

Thanks in advance for your help

Regards,
Kiran

Godfather · 25th May 2007, 04:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by d.kiran

I have just recently purchased a second hand Honda City (Well.. Actually, it was a down payment for a new Civic and I get to keep the old car :-)).

I did not understand this?? Please explain.

Godfather

d.kiran · 25th May 2007, 04:58

:-) We already have a City and Dad loved the civic. The down payment for the civic was 4.25 lakhs. I paid for it. Dad said he wont touch the city anymore so I get to keep the city. Effectively I get a 2004 City GXi for 4.25L. Not bad eh?

Technically I might end up paying the installments as well, but I am not gonna complain. Let my Dad enjoy his retirement.

Poseidon · 25th May 2007, 07:54

Welcome to TBHP!
Happily accepting dad's old car while gifting him a new, bigger one - that's very decent of you, d.kiran! Very unlike a true son!!
Cant help you much with your ICE problems - I manage with stock sfuff.

hydrashok · 25th May 2007, 08:50

Welcome to TBHP, Kiran! You have a very lucky Dad

The HU looks pretty good. Pretty much packed with features too.

Front: Good choice of front comps. They will fit in the front with a spacer. No issues there.

Rear: The stock provision in back allows for 6.5" speakers. Since you're going in for a sub, 6.5" will do. You can go for 6x9s with a spacer there, but they're really not necessary. Since you have GTO607c in front, a GTO637 (6.5" 2-way coaxial would be good in back).

Amp: Great choice of amp! Plus great options for the next upgrade (a mono amp later), if you plan one. You won't regret the purchase at all. I'd read on another thread than the 75.4 is temporarily out of stock all over, but should be available in the middle of June.

Sub: Go for the JBL GT4-12 (12" sub). It will fit the overall budget well, and will sound really good. Drop it in a sealed box and you're ready to rock.

BUDGET
Front Comps: 6.5K
Rear Coaxes: 4K
Amp: 13K
Sub: 5K
Box for sub: 1.5K
Power wiring (8AWG) and two 2-ch RCA interconnects: 5K (Audison/Stinger/Twister/Pyle/Other good brands). Note: Non-Audison (but still good enough) wiring will not run to more than 3.5 to 4K.
Damping: 5K (Front doors, boot, number plate, C pillar, roof)
Total: 40K

You will get tight bass from the GT-12 in a sealed box. The 75.4 will drive it pretty well and you shouldn't have complaints on that front.

Buying stuff from outside India may not always work out to be cheaper. Then there is always the inconvenience of lugging the equipment into India. You'll also need to pay extra for installation.

d.kiran · 25th May 2007, 13:20

Thanks Everyone for the warm welcome.

Hydrashock,

I had not given a thought to the dampings. Thanks for reminding me of that.

Now if I go ahead with the choice of the components and the rears, I am assuming I dont have to change the stock grills, because I am not sure if we will get the exact shade to match the beige interiors.

Also, is it possible to suggest a good installer in Chennai who will do a professional job?

For more information: I live in AnnaNagar and radiowarehouse is just a stone's throw away. Are they good for these kinds of jobs?

d.kiran · 25th May 2007, 13:33

Regarding the installer, I found another thread especially about this topic. For further queries about the installer I will use the other thread.

low_bass_makker · 25th May 2007, 16:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by d.kiran

Regarding the installer, I found another thread especially about this topic. For further queries about the installer I will use the other thread.

I would recommenced to ask all you questions here only...no need to go to another thread....your query can be answer here only...or it will create confusion......

d.kiran · 25th May 2007, 16:35

Sure LBM. Would love to hear your thoughts about my setup as well :-).

Now I have a question with Tweeter.

I have been hearing a few cars with two way and three way components and I have a feeling that the tweeters are overly bright/harsh.

Also, I have a fairly low tolerance for extreme highs. In this case is a tweeter really neccessary? Or would a co-axial be better in this case.

OFFTOPIC: Is it not possible to edit posts in this forum?

adil this car used to be white before right if i am not mistaken.

low_bass_makker · 25th May 2007, 16:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by d.kiran

Sure LBM. Would love to hear your thoughts about my setup as well :-).

thank you sir .....till now you are on the right track till you get bite by the budget bug.....

navin · 25th May 2007, 18:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by d.kiran

Now I have a question with Tweeter.

I have been hearing a few cars with two way and three way components and I have a feeling that the tweeters are overly bright/harsh.

Also, I have a fairly low tolerance for extreme highs.
OFFTOPIC: Is it not possible to edit posts in this forum?

Component tweeters are actually easier to tame.

a) the crossover usually has a setting to reduce the treble
b) if (a) is not enough one can open the crossover and modify it. one way to reduce the harshness (which I think is partly due the to fact that in a car the tweeter is so close to your ear) is to introduce a small dip (about 0.5db) at about 3-4kHz), another is to reduce the Q of the crossover (this has to be done carefully because reducing the Q can also put more stress on the tweeter's mechanicals).
c) by firing the tweeters off axis one can reduce the glare

coax speakers often have just a simple 1st order XO for the tweeters (some like the Infinity have external XOs and higher order XOs but these are exceptions). This usually means the tweeters are more stressed and might sound harsher even if they are off axis.

hydrashok · 25th May 2007, 18:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by d.kiran

OFFTOPIC: Is it not possible to edit posts in this forum?

You may edit your post for upto 20 minutes after you make them

low_bass_makker · 25th May 2007, 18:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by navin

Component tweeters are actually easier to tame.

c) by firing the tweeters off axis one can reduce the glare

I like this one...it means to place the tweeter face away from the ear or avoid direct facing the tweeter....for this purpose this location is best suited if you dont like highs...

navin · 25th May 2007, 20:02

No LBM that will still keep the tweeters on axis with the nearest passenger. fire the driver side tweeter towards the right ear of the passenger riding shot-gun and vice versa.

d.kiran · 25th May 2007, 20:05

Again. Thanks for the suggestions :-).

Tweeter positioning is tricky. Tweeters and high frequencies are extremely directional, so moving them away means loss of detail. But pointing them in front of you could cause harsh highs

Looks like endless nights of tweaking ahead of me... Oh well..

@ Navin. That sounds like a good idea. Close enough to hear the details, far enough to miss the harshness.

25th May 2007, 02:00	#1 (permalink)
d.kiran BHPian Join Date: May 2007 Location: Chennai Posts: 62	ICE- (Old) NHC - Help and Suggestions needed Hi Guys, My first posting. I have been a lurker here for quite some time. Anyway I have just recently purchased a second hand Honda City (Well.. Actually, it was a down payment for a new Civic and I get to keep the old car :-)). Anyway back to the subject matter, I am thinking of upgrading my car audio right now. The stereo is a Pioneer HU (which replaced the cassete playing Alpine) and the speakers are all the stock ones. The setup will be the usual recommended setup. Front: Components (Currently have decided on GTO607c. Will this fit withouth modifying the door panels? If not, what is the size that fits and any suggestions for the same?) Rear: Co-axials (I have not decided this as I am not sure whether they will fit in the stock slots in the rear. Can you please suggest the correct size so that I can listen to a few? Any suggestions about the speakers itself would be welcome) Amplifier: 4-Channel (JBL GTo75.4). I beleive that is a nice balance of 4 channel power and cost. As usual the two channels will be used to drive the components and the other two channels will be used drive the sub. I am in the UK currently and it is available for £100. Is there anything else I could look at in the same price range? Subwoofer: This is the one thing I am not sure about at all. To be honest, I am quite familiar with Home Theater speakers, but car stuff with the multiple enclosures slightly throws me off. I have heard a few cars with wooden type enclosures and they sound too boxy ( I am not sure if I can convey this correctly). What I am looking for is neat and punchy bass. I am not very worried about the lower frequencies, but that is always good to have. I am looking for a compromise between lower frequencies and extremely quick and punchy bass. The main problem I have is with the music I listen to. I listen to a wide variety of music from Hindi Classics, ghazals to English Classics, New Age instrumentals and Symphonies depending on my mood. In my home theater set up, getting a balance has been excruciating to say the least. I can set it up to get a decent bass and crystal clear highs and then comes Lata Mangeshkar with her glorious highs and a totally horrible recording from 1950s that threatens to rip my ears apart. Or some cases, deep voices becoming too muddy or bassy and lacking definition. I am not sure if I am nitpicking here, but I will be spending 4 hours every day in my car commuting and I want to be relaxed when I get to work. Can someone please help me out in choosing this? HeadUnit: I think this might be controversial, but I skimped on this. I bought a dual in dash DVD system from US Dual Electronics - In-Dash Mobile Video - XDVD8182 I figured most of the sound would be coming from the amp, so the deficiencies in the sound quality would be covered by the amp. And not to mention it looks cool for the price. I had a look at it in the flesh and it looks pretty well made. This will be powering my rears. I would very much appreciate it if you can help me out. I am in the UK currently so if there are any brands that are not available in India but available in Europe, please suggest. I am thinking around £500 (40000) budget. Thanks in advance for your help Regards, Kiran

25th May 2007, 08:50	#5 (permalink)
hydrashok Senior - BHPian Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: In my Office Posts: 2,149 View My Garage	Welcome to TBHP, Kiran! You have a very lucky Dad The HU looks pretty good. Pretty much packed with features too. Front: Good choice of front comps. They will fit in the front with a spacer. No issues there. Rear: The stock provision in back allows for 6.5" speakers. Since you're going in for a sub, 6.5" will do. You can go for 6x9s with a spacer there, but they're really not necessary. Since you have GTO607c in front, a GTO637 (6.5" 2-way coaxial would be good in back). Amp: Great choice of amp! Plus great options for the next upgrade (a mono amp later), if you plan one. You won't regret the purchase at all. I'd read on another thread than the 75.4 is temporarily out of stock all over, but should be available in the middle of June. Sub: Go for the JBL GT4-12 (12" sub). It will fit the overall budget well, and will sound really good. Drop it in a sealed box and you're ready to rock. BUDGET Front Comps: 6.5K Rear Coaxes: 4K Amp: 13K Sub: 5K Box for sub: 1.5K Power wiring (8AWG) and two 2-ch RCA interconnects: 5K (Audison/Stinger/Twister/Pyle/Other good brands). Note: Non-Audison (but still good enough) wiring will not run to more than 3.5 to 4K. Damping: 5K (Front doors, boot, number plate, C pillar, roof) Total: 40K You will get tight bass from the GT-12 in a sealed box. The 75.4 will drive it pretty well and you shouldn't have complaints on that front. Buying stuff from outside India may not always work out to be cheaper. Then there is always the inconvenience of lugging the equipment into India. You'll also need to pay extra for installation. __________________ Alpine 9887 \| TRU Tech S44 \| Image Dynamics XS65 \| Image Dynamics IDQ12 D2V2 \| Connection Audison Last edited by hydrashok : 25th May 2007 at 08:52.

25th May 2007, 16:35	#9 (permalink)
d.kiran BHPian Join Date: May 2007 Location: Chennai Posts: 62	Sure LBM. Would love to hear your thoughts about my setup as well :-). Now I have a question with Tweeter. I have been hearing a few cars with two way and three way components and I have a feeling that the tweeters are overly bright/harsh. Also, I have a fairly low tolerance for extreme highs. In this case is a tweeter really neccessary? Or would a co-axial be better in this case. OFFTOPIC: Is it not possible to edit posts in this forum? adil this car used to be white before right if i am not mistaken. Last edited by aah78 : 24th August 2007 at 01:31. Reason: posts merged

25th May 2007, 20:02	#14 (permalink)
navin Team-BHP Support Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: mumbai Posts: 12,303	No LBM that will still keep the tweeters on axis with the nearest passenger. fire the driver side tweeter towards the right ear of the passenger riding shot-gun and vice versa. __________________ Scixelsyd Etinu

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25th May 2007, 04:58	#3 (permalink)
d.kiran BHPian Join Date: May 2007 Location: Chennai Posts: 62	:-) We already have a City and Dad loved the civic. The down payment for the civic was 4.25 lakhs. I paid for it. Dad said he wont touch the city anymore so I get to keep the city. Effectively I get a 2004 City GXi for 4.25L. Not bad eh? Technically I might end up paying the installments as well, but I am not gonna complain. Let my Dad enjoy his retirement.

25th May 2007, 07:54	#4 (permalink)
Poseidon BHPian Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: On the briny Posts: 72	Welcome to TBHP! Happily accepting dad's old car while gifting him a new, bigger one - that's very decent of you, d.kiran! Very unlike a true son!! Cant help you much with your ICE problems - I manage with stock sfuff.

25th May 2007, 13:20	#6 (permalink)
d.kiran BHPian Join Date: May 2007 Location: Chennai Posts: 62	Thanks Everyone for the warm welcome. Hydrashock, I had not given a thought to the dampings. Thanks for reminding me of that. Now if I go ahead with the choice of the components and the rears, I am assuming I dont have to change the stock grills, because I am not sure if we will get the exact shade to match the beige interiors. Also, is it possible to suggest a good installer in Chennai who will do a professional job? For more information: I live in AnnaNagar and radiowarehouse is just a stone's throw away. Are they good for these kinds of jobs?

25th May 2007, 13:33	#7 (permalink)
d.kiran BHPian Join Date: May 2007 Location: Chennai Posts: 62	Regarding the installer, I found another thread especially about this topic. For further queries about the installer I will use the other thread.

25th May 2007, 20:05	#15 (permalink)
d.kiran BHPian Join Date: May 2007 Location: Chennai Posts: 62	Again. Thanks for the suggestions :-). Tweeter positioning is tricky. Tweeters and high frequencies are extremely directional, so moving them away means loss of detail. But pointing them in front of you could cause harsh highs Looks like endless nights of tweaking ahead of me... Oh well.. @ Navin. That sounds like a good idea. Close enough to hear the details, far enough to miss the harshness.