Audio CD vs 320kbps mp3.. etc.,

[clipto333]

hi, couldnt edit in time

about the mp3 part, IMO it might degrade the sq of the HU because the extra decoder chips etc. these hu have displays which can be switched off, why? who wants to switch off the display? its there so that the display circuitry doesnt interfere with the rest of the system. correct me if im wrong.

why do these hu have outboard power supply, copper chassis etc? these hu are meant for sq and only sq nothing else. why would a mfr want to add extra hardware when they know the format for which they are adding the HW/SW is not good enough?

if i had the money i would definitely buy the clarion. i woud never care about not having mp3. even now i dont use the mp3 facility much.

got to go

will finish later

cheers



clip

[devarshi84]

Originally Posted by gunbir

I for one, prefer to spend my hard earned money on a unit that just plays CDs better than all the multimedia units out there. Again, I'm glad there are some units still available for people like me. Why is it so difficult for you guys to grasp that you are not the intended customer for these products?

And I really don't get your problem with these units. Are there not enough MP3 CD players out there for you?

Anyways you folks need not worry. Before long there will be no high end units like these. You will just have other products that will replace these at the same price point but with features like MP3, BBE and what not. Why, most manufacturers (like Alpine) have already cut "audiophile" features from their HUs.

So rejoice. For you can already spend $1400 on a average sounding unit that will have GPS MP3 WMA USB etc etc. I'm happy for you.

why are you sounding so low? just as the cassetes gave way to audio cd's. something better will come. just hold on. There are more of you out there. More enough for manufacturers to keep manufacturing.

Here we are having a fight among different target markets trying to justify their requirements as better than others.

Gunbir, If by any chance you are afraid, Please do stock some HX-D2's and you can always help friends like me in need indeed. heheh


Coming back to the topic I am seriously considering the Clarion DFZ667MC because FB276BT is not available at all.

[Sam Kapasi]

Start a new thread in "Ask the Gurus" then, LBM. This is a product discussion, based on Clarion HUs.

Start up a thread in ask the gurus on Audio CDs Vs 320 KBps and let's discuss it there. Not here.

[low_bass_makker]

Sam Bhai your are correct.

I think we are discussing MP3 vs Audio CD from the 6th post of this thread and few in between also. So I would request the MODS to split this thread and shift it to the ASK the Guru section. and keep this thread as the original one.

[clipto333]

Originally Posted by low_bass_makker

Sam Bhai I agree with you we must return to the topic by one of my question is still left out in the pile of other question I hope some one will shed some light on this one..

let me try lbm. IMO this question is not valid:-) no offence bro.
its impossible. why? because everyone has different equipment like amps, subs, HU etc even if the equipment and the car is same there will still be many more thing that are different and will have an effect on the sound so the sound will differ. a person listening doesnt know how the program is recorded first of all. some of the program is badly recorded some are good. how can one tell the difference if he or she doesnt know how the original program material sounds?also, humans have too short a memory when it comes to audio comparisons. a few seconds are enough of delay to forget what you heard so i dont think one could tell if its compressed or uncompressed.

baaki its just my way of thinking. no offence again bro :-)
correct me if im wrong anywhere guys

cheers
clip

[tsk1979]

Hmm,
So a HU costing 100,000rs will not sound better than a HU costing 5000rs unless you use equally good speakers?
So to utilize the full potential of a unit which costs 20,000 plays just radio and Audio CD format, you would also need to reserve twice the amount for amp and speakers if you want to justify this 20K cost?

[zucchero]

clipto,you are absolutely on the spot bro???i agree 100%.

[low_bass_makker]

Originally Posted by clipto333

let me try lbm. IMO this question is not valid:-) no offence bro.
its impossible. why? because everyone has different equipment like amps, subs, HU etc even if the equipment and the car is same there will still be many more thing that are different and will have an effect on the sound so the sound will differ. a person listening doesnt know how the program is recorded first of all. some of the program is badly recorded some are good. how can one tell the difference if he or she doesnt know how the original program material sounds?also, humans have too short a memory when it comes to audio comparisons. a few seconds are enough of delay to forget what you heard so i dont think one could tell if its compressed or uncompressed.

baaki its just my way of thinking. no offence again bro :-)
correct me if im wrong anywhere guys

cheers
clip

Thank sir but my question is quite a good one, See you yourself has answered it quite nicely. But I am waiting for the other Audiophiles of this forum to answer it for me. Can they make out the DIFFERENCE?

[low_bass_makker]

Originally Posted by zucchero

clipto,you are absolutely on the spot bro???i agree 100%.

So Sir do you real agree that one cannot tell what is being played. MP3 at 320 Kps or Audio CD.

[tsk1979]

I may be wrong here, but I am told that the main reason that 320kbps mp3 sounds slightly different from Audio CDs(less than 2% of people can make out, and computers can) because most encoders such as blade/lame/Xing cutoff all frequencies above 16KHz.
Its like they have a LPF cutting of around that freq.
So kids can definitely find out the difference if expensive equipment is used.
However there is one encoder, by the Fraunhoffer institute(Pardon my spelling), which does not do this abrupt cutoff. I am told some programs use it and most of those programs cost around 20$.
Among the free ones blade and lame are supposed to be best.
As far as I am concerned, I do not own any "cutting edge" equipment, and on the most "Audiophilic" equipment I own, which is a high end Headphone(1500+ or something) I can make out difference between a 192kbps and a 256kbps mp3 barely (Linkin park - What I've done).
320kbps feels like Audio CD to me.
But personally I feel that high end systems should support atleast 1 lossless compression codec, for example FLAC.
You can have the best of both worlds, lossless 70% compression.
Long time back I wrote a piece of code which could take in gzipped .wav files and play them. On a slow CPU it would falter, but on a high speed processor, you could have uncompressed format. Of course flac is better than this silly compression, but the point here is that now that there is a way to compress music without any information loss, the high end guys should take the lead.
Infact we should have 5.1 surround DVD audio CDs getting mainstream now.

[zucchero]

lbm,bro we had practically done that thing.you yourself agreed that mp3 was runing low as compared to the orignals.first you yourself agree that thers a difference in sq,then you ask can we 'spot the difference".
what are you tryin to prove?????

[low_bass_makker]

Originally Posted by low_bass_makker

Firstly let me calrify some points before posting the my question again.

1) I agree that there is differnce in CD and MP3 playback on a simple setup.

2) I agree that Audio CD is a very good source of sound reproduction. But there are some more like SACD , DVD- Audio...

3) Good Audiophile listen to Audio CD and get the best Hardware to play it.

So everything Apart. let me ask my question.

"If I ask somebody to sit in my CAR and I play a track , can one tell that what is playing Audio CD or a 320 KPS MP3 ??"

Originally Posted by zucchero

lbm,bro we had practically done that thing.you yourself agreed that mp3 was runing low as compared to the orignals.first you yourself agree that thers a difference in sq,then you ask can we 'spot the difference".
what are you tryin to prove?????

I am going to ask it again...

"If I ask somebody to sit in my CAR and I play a track , can one tell that what is playing Audio CD or a 320 KPS MP3 ??"

Simple. Can on make out which of the either source is being played.

[bottle]

unless you hear both on the same equipment you wont be able to tell whether it is a cd or an mp3. but thats not what we are talking about .. after listening to a song in mp3 and we get a properly mastered cd it will sound better for sure with good equipment . so why not cut the process and just stick to cd's wherever we can

[reignofchaos]

Originally Posted by low_bass_makker

I am going to ask it again...

"If I ask somebody to sit in my CAR and I play a track , can one tell that what is playing Audio CD or a 320 KPS MP3 ??"

Simple. Can on make out which of the either source is being played.

Obviously not. If played in isolation, there's no way to find out. If a system sounds bad, it could be the system that is inherently bad or it could be bad software being played. However if one does an A/B, its pretty easy to distinguish between mp3 and uncompressed/lossless stuff such as audio cd/flac/monkey audio. Lossy compressed formats sound way worse.

Also someone mentioned DVD Audio/SACD. I must mention that in serious audio circles, inspite of these being more advanced, they are looked down upon as the equalization used by these is seemingly inferior to redbook cd versions. Many claim that the CD version sounds better on the same cd/sacd player. One potential reason could be that CD transports are way way better refined than the ones that play dvd-audio and sacd. The state of dvd-audio is ridiculously bad as no transport is allowed to pass thru dvd audio unencrypted over an open channel such as SPDIF cos of DRM issues. What this basically means is dedicated DACs which are preferred by many over an integrated transport+DAC combo can't be used.

One thing I can comment however is that with the proper equipment, Vinyl sounds way better than audio cd.

[gunbir]

Originally Posted by low_bass_makker

I am going to ask it again...

"If I ask somebody to sit in my CAR and I play a track , can one tell that what is playing Audio CD or a 320 KPS MP3 ??"

Simple. Can on make out which of the either source is being played.

Really, I don't know why you continue to pursue this when Zuchhero has already detected the difference in your own car... But if you need us to prove this beyond doubt, we're up for it. Of course, by admission you are clearly saying that you, for one, are unable to detect ANY difference.

As for us so called "audiophiles". YES. Of course we can. I can. as can JB, Zuchhero and others. And anybody else who wants to volunteer for this experiment can please step up.

Burn a data CD (disc A) with the best 320 rip you can of a song I choose. Then also burn an audio CD from the same (disc B) 320 rip. and also have the original CD (disc C) at hand.

We will try disc A vs C once in your car. And then disc B Vs C in my car (disc B is reqd. cuz my player doesn't to MP3).

Of course, the purpose of this experiment is to prove the following:

- Whether or not 320 MP3 is distinguishable from Audio CD
- How many people can detect this difference (if any)

Originally Posted by tsk1979

Hmm,
So a HU costing 100,000rs will not sound better than a HU costing 5000rs unless you use equally good speakers?
So to utilize the full potential of a unit which costs 20,000 plays just radio and Audio CD format, you would also need to reserve twice the amount for amp and speakers if you want to justify this 20K cost?

Yes, of course. Whats the point of having a high end source if you only have a bottleneck ahead in terms of cables, amps and the most critical, loudspeakers.