Jarring after re-installation and other issues

[kaushik_s]

Hi All,
I've got my music system removed from my old Zen and re-installed it in the Baleno today. The work was done by a local installer as I didn't had time to go to a reputed place(will have to give the Zen tomorrow to the new owner).
But with this new install now both the front speakers(JBL GTO 607c) are jarring very badly incase of high bass songs.And that noise is pretty bad.What can be issue here ? The same speakers were sounding nice till yesterday in the Zen. Are some of the connections had gone wrong ? Or the speakers are connected in wrong fashion?
Another thing I noticed is that I thought Baleno stock speaker location take 6.5 inch speakers but it doesn't.So a spacer ring was put after removing the stock plastic holder,is that correct ?

I'm still to connect the rear ovals (JBL CS3196) but I'm seriously thinking not to get them installed in that place. Just a thought, can it be because of rear fill is not there and so I'm pushing the front speakers too hard to get the bass ?
Another issue is that with the original Kenwood(that came with the car) cassette player HU working as the radio tuner the power antenna is working fine. i.e getting hoisted only when the AM/FM radio is on and retracts when the system switches to cassette or CD changer.But when the Blaupunkt CD/mp3 HU(Bahamas MP34) was used as the radio receiver then the antenna doesn't retract back if system is switched to CD from radio. Is it a issue with the Blau HU ?I was expecting it to work as perfectly as the Kenwood HU

Friends, please please please help me out and let me have my music back..
Regards
Kaushik
PS : And basically now the car have 3 music sources, the main Blaupunkt HU which has the aux-in from the Kenwood HU and which inturn is connected/controlling the CD changer. Is this setup ok or it's like a overkill ?

[akg7091]

I guess u are using the kenwood unit just because of the changer. Why not use that unit only ?
Why are u using both units in this fashion ?
Also, the power antenna seems to be connected to the remote wire of the blau. Maybe the kenwood has a power relay just for the power antenna whereas the blau may not.

Check the crossover for the jarring sound. Most probably your installer messed it up.

[filcord]

Go to a good installer. He will solve the problem, unless the present installer has damaged the speaker cones.
Yes baleno requires spacer rings to accomodate 6.5", but it can be done.
Are you using the Blau only because of mp3?
The Kenwood must have a separate trigger for the antenna that operates off the radio. Most other HUs don't have this. I know I miss that facility in my Baleno, since I have a Pioneer 4950, and tha antenna is constantly extended.

[navin]

Originally Posted by akg7091

I guess u are using the kenwood unit just because of the changer. Why are u using both units in this fashion ?
Check the crossover for the jarring sound. Most probably your installer messed it up.

1. i asume you want the CD player to be able to chage CDs in thecar and the changer so you can stock 10 CDs in the trunk. your method is complicate dbut it will work.

2. the jarring could be becasue of a bad install. check the install by opening the front grill and seeing if something is rattling inside.

[kaushik_s]

Thanks for your replies guyz..
The Kenwood one is not a CD player,it's cassette player. Actually I'm keeping the Blaupunkt because I like the sound quality of the set. As about the Kenwood one, I'm not too sure now about it's sound quality as I got it along with car only and that's just 3 days.
The Blau also have one dedicated control wire for power antenna but the issue is that it's not working as it with the Kenwood one. I'll check the Blau manual if there is anything mentioned there.

And the main issue, Jarring sound, I will check it out with a good installer today or tomorrow.But I doubt any good installer is there near my area(basically Indiranagar area,Bangalore)..
BTW, there is a polythene cover in between the door-panel and the door, can this be removed altogether?The guy who installed the system yesterday refused to remove it saying it shouldn't be removed.That also can add to the noise I believe.

[DerAlte]

Originally Posted by kaushik_s

The Blau also have one dedicated control wire for power antenna but the issue is that it's not working as it with the Kenwood one. I'll check the Blau manual if there is anything mentioned there.

And the main issue, Jarring sound, I will check it out with a good installer today or tomorrow.But I doubt any good installer is there near my area(basically Indiranagar area,Bangalore).
BTW, there is a polythene cover in between the door-panel and the door, can this be removed altogether?The guy who installed the system yesterday refused to remove it saying it shouldn't be removed.That also can add to the noise I believe.

Perhaps you could drive across to Mandovi Motors workshop in Wilson Garden - I am sure they would help out in fixing the Antenna control & the jarring sound problem. Must be a wiring mistake - Blau HUs have the Antenna Control pin in the HU.

How are the Kenwood and Blau wired together, especially for speakers? Kenwood feeding signal to Blau HU AUX-IN or the other way around?

The jarring could be
- due to the volume you are playing at. Going from the smaller volume of the Zen to the larger volume of the Baleno, you might be keeping the volume level high enough for clipping to occur in the HU
- due to the FRP side panel virating happily, in which case it needs sound dampening
- something touching the speaker cone lightly, causing an irritating buzzing (not expected equally on all speakers)
- wires / connectors hanging loosely inside the door which are vibrating against plastic or metal
- the side panel is not tightly fixed back to the door, and the loose edges are buzzing

Not a good idea to remove the vapour barrier plastic sheet - it doesn't add to the noise if it is stuck properly.

After the problem gets sorted out, do give us a feedback - makes the knowledge base better.

[akshay1234]

even i used to have a similar antenna problem in my baleno. i also used to have a blaupunkt hu.

[kaushik_s]

Yeah, the Kenwood is feeding to Blau Aux-in. I wanted to use the Blau as the radio also but now using the Kenwood for the radio as the antenna works properly with it.
I doubt it's the volume as the OEM speakers at the back are also playing with the same volume without jarring. And I'm playing at the same volume level(28-30 in the display) as I used to play in my Zen. But I've a serious doubt with the crossover connection that these guys have done.
Something touching the cone maybe a reason,I'll get that checked also.Side panels are connected properly, I checked that already.I'm guessing that they have just by-passed the crossovers completely..

Tomorrow I'll take the car to a installer(probably Sprocket as they've done my prev installation in my Zen) to get it checked.

[kaushik_s]

It seems probably I've found the prob of jarring.Not very sure though.It seems the jarring/distorted sound comes only when I play the kenwood system, i.e. CD changer or cassette player.So today I just tried to play with the controls of the kenwood player. Now while I tried to use the fader to the rear only the sound just diminished..There was no sound at all. It seems the aux-in of the Blau is fed only with the front channels of the Kenwood .So can this be a problem ? But the Blau aux-in have only 2 channels in (L/R) . Is there any specific way to tune such setup?

[DerAlte]

Originally Posted by kaushik_s

It seems probably I've found the prob of jarring.Not very sure though.It seems the jarring/distorted sound comes only when I play the kenwood system, i.e. CD changer or cassette player.So today I just tried to play with the controls of the kenwood player. Now while I tried to use the fader to the rear only the sound just diminished..There was no sound at all. It seems the aux-in of the Blau is fed only with the front channels of the Kenwood .So can this be a problem ? But the Blau aux-in have only 2 channels in (L/R) . Is there any specific way to tune such setup?

Good for you, @kaushik. The fader gave the clue. HU AUX-IN input is always L+R 1 channel, unless there are more than one AUX-IN to accommodate multiple sources (rare). HU Preamp-out may have Front L+R, Rear L+R and possibly Sub-out; but all these are meant to go to amps.

OK, in that case the problem is overloading at the input of the Blau HU (Blau is clipping since there is too much input).

1. Set the Blau volume to, say, 16 (on a scale of 40). Gradually increase Kenwood volume to a level that it just starts jarring
2. Bring back Kenwood's level to a comfortable level at the speakers. Leave it at this setting and use it rarely only for fine-tuning. There must be a preset level on Kenwood when the unit switches on (most Blaus have that) - set it to that volume. That will prevent accidental change (e.g. when cleaning) of the Kenwood volume affecting your listening
3. Use Blau's volume as you normally would (master volume control). Blau's fader should also work normally.

[kaushik_s]

Hey DErAlte,
thanks for the suggestion.I'll try this today. But the Blau volume set at 16 I don't think I'll be able to hear any clipping.Or is 16 is a tried and tasted value? I normally listen in between 22-30 range. And also I don't have an amplifier. So should I try this somewhere in that range or in 16 only ?
I'm not sure that kenwood have preset level like blau but will check that out.
Also,shouldn't I keep all the equalizer setting in Kenwood to null ? What about the Bass and Treble settings in Kenwood?

[navin]

Originally Posted by DerAlte

OK, in that case the problem is overloading at the input of the Blau HU (Blau is clipping since there is too much input).

1. Set the Blau volume to, say, 16 (on a scale of 40). Gradually increase Kenwood volume to a level that it just starts jarring
2. Bring back Kenwood's level to a comfortable level at the speakers. Leave it at this setting and use it rarely only for fine-tuning. There must be a preset level on Kenwood when the unit switches on (most Blaus have that) - set it to that volume. That will prevent accidental change (e.g. when cleaning) of the Kenwood volume affecting your listening.

actually I think to have some more control over the kenwood i would start wit the blau level at about 25-30 (out of 40) and then raise the kenwood level till you hear jarring. once you hear jarring drop the kenwood's level back a little.

[DerAlte]

Originally Posted by kaushik_s

But the Blau volume set at 16 I don't think I'll be able to hear any clipping.Or is 16 is a tried and tasted value? I normally listen in between 22-30 range.
...
Also,shouldn't I keep all the equalizer setting in Kenwood to null ? What about the Bass and Treble settings in Kenwood?

Oops! I have a Blau HU in my Safari and I keep it normally at 14 (out of 40), 16 is loud enough for me. Sometimes I do take it to 20 when I want to crow along (can't describe my singing any better way) a favourite song!

16 was indicative, I should have written "whatever volume you normally listen at". Yes, ideally it is recommended that all EQ and Tone Control settings are kept at flat / no boost. But, if you want tailor it (that's what they are for, no?) your taste / situation, set it after setting the volumes.

Originally Posted by navin

actually I think to have some more control over the kenwood i would start wit the blau level at about 25-30 (out of 40) and then raise the kenwood level till you hear jarring. once you hear jarring drop the kenwood's level back a little.

[kaushik_s]

I tried few settings as suggested by DerAlte and Navin and also did some more R&D. Ultimately the best setting till now found was,
Kenwood : vol level : 21 and Bass/Mid/Treble at 1 . Equalizer Flat.
Blaupunkt : Bass at 3 Treble at 1 and X-Bass on.and then Equalizer flat(and this changed everything Tremendously). There is still some vibration but for that I think I need to go for damping.Will be doing some more R&D tomorrow again
Thanks a lot guys for your help.

[kaushik_s]

Hi,
After playing with the settings as adviced by Navin and DerAlte I thought the clipping was gone. Actually I was probably not listening to the music properly. Now today I thought of checking the thing again.Played Floyd(in the Blaupunkt itself not the changer) and played around with the fader and balance controls, and voila, the clipping is still there. There is noticable clipping in both the Right channels. Whereas the left speakers played without any issue. So one thing for sure is that there is some issue with the right channels.Can anyone help me out what can be the issue?Is it a wiring problem or is the HU itself is a gone case?Please please guys, help me out..
The volume was set in between 22-32 and in the whole range I could hear the clipping.
Regards
Kaushik