My Safari 3.0L - Help me with the ICE setup

[Su-47]

Guys,

I have this ICE on my Safari, and as expected I am dissatisfied with it:
HU: Pioneer 2950
Speakers: JBL 5-1/4” on the stock door locations.
Issue: No Bass, No mid-bass!

The reason because of which I ended up with this setup is:

• Was out of cash after expensive Michelins and sun-film
• Didn’t want to add any box like thing in the boot.
• I thought I don’t need much bass, as I never switched on the sub at home. My HT amp driving the Polk-Audio bookshelf-speakers always seemed nice and sufficient. How wrong I was!
• I had used 4”Front (JBL) + 6x9 (Sony) + Sony HU combo in my earlier car and that was pretty decent. I had hoped that this setup would sound similar.

So, can the gurus give me suggestions about how can I fix it? Please bear in mind, I just need a *bearable* system and I still don’t have all the cash in the world to spend:

• Get rid of the speakers in the rear doors and add boxed 6x9s in the boot.

Speakers: GTO937 4900 + Box 900 + Install 700 = 6.5K
Will this make things better? Or, I would end up with a marginally improved system because the HU is too anemic to drive it? Any other speaker recommendations in 6x9 size?

• Add an amp and a sub.
  • Any suggested configuration and estimates on how much would this set me back by?
  • Would this setup still lack mid-bass?

• Throw away everything and start from scratch. What an idea, makes me cry!

• Any other suggestions… Like some wonderful speakers that fit in the default location and still give good bass!

Thanks!
Su-47

[navin]

Originally Posted by Su-47

Speakers: JBL 5-1/4” on the stock door locations.
Issue: No Bass, No mid-bass! [*]Add an amp and a sub.[list][*]Any suggested configuration and estimates on how much would this set me back by?

A the GT4-12 sub can now be had for 4K. Add a sony 552 or Blau GT2 amp for 3-4K and 1K for the box and you 8-9K with box you can have a boxed sub.

[Proxima]

Originally Posted by navin

A the GT4-12 sub can now be had for 4K. Add a sony 552 or Blau GT2 amp for 3-4K and 1K for the box and you 8-9K with box you can have a boxed sub.

Do you need a sub? I was of the impression that you need better quality speakers.

BTW, for the first time I listned to JBL oval speakers (on a swift) GTO937 I think, they are simply EXCELLENT!! I would suggest that you replace your speakers with JBL ones.

But please be warned that I am a COMPLETE NEWBIE to ICE.

[blueraven316]

Putting 6X9s in boxes in the back is not such a good idea, the speakers especially JBL GTOs tend to boom a bit in a box, Now, I am not sure what kind of mids you are looking for.
Which JBL 5.25" Speakers do you have ? CS ? GTO ?
Component Speakers will produce better mids and more clarity paired up with an Amp. If on a budget a CS60.4 makes sense, if you can stretch a bit then 75.4 sounds much better.

Maybe you should look at a full change, maybe not, but no matter what happens the system has to be setup properly by someone who knows some tuning cos even the best stuff can sound bad when setup wrong, and even not so good stuff can sound good with a good amp and tune job.

[nitrous]

Originally Posted by proxima

would suggest that you replace your speakers with JBL ones.

He's already got JBLs ,man. He needs a pair of 6x9s , a good 12" sub and a packing amp with a sprinkling of raven-ish installation.

[Su-47]

First, thanks to all you guys for your suggestions.

Originally Posted by blueraven316

Putting 6X9s in boxes in the back is not such a good idea, the speakers especially JBL GTOs tend to boom a bit in a box

No boom for me please!

Originally Posted by blueraven316

Which JBL 5.25" Speakers do you have ? CS ? GTO ?

CS

Originally Posted by blueraven316

Now, I am not sure what kind of mids you are looking for.

Here is a visual illustration, of what I desire .
@#1#ImageShack - Hosting :: musicoh8.gif

A couple of more comments
- I do not want boom and it is prefectly ok if the system is not loud.
- Given the current state of my system, think I would need the cutoff freq of the woofer to be around 120-150Hz.
+ Do woofers have decent frequency response at higher frequencies like 150-200 Hz?
+ Do amps have the LPF setting programmable?
+ Also, is the loudness of woofer controllable?

The spec on my HU (Pio 2950) says it has only 1 preamp out (dont know if it means a LR pair, or just one output). Assuming, I am not pyschologically prepared for changing the HU, what shall I do:
a) Use a 2-channel amp: Use it in bridged mode to drive the woofer.
b) Use a 4-channel amp: 2-o/ps for rear speakers, and 2-bridged for the woofer.

What kind of a woofer would the gurus suggest for me?

[tsk1979]

Just add 2 channel amp(2.5K) and a subwoofer(4.5K with box).
you will have enough boom.
If you go 4 channel amp way you can go for 2.5K coax in rear + small sub.
This will improve your bass and midrange.

[anonymous]

How is this Pio 2950 HU?
I am planning to have 4 Channel Amp and Sub Woofer with this HU. The Woofer and rear Coax will be running from Amp and front Compos will get power from HU. Howss that?

[FATAL3RROR]

Originally Posted by anonymous

How is this Pio 2950 HU?
I am planning to have 4 Channel Amp and Sub Woofer with this HU. The Woofer and rear Coax will be running from Amp and front Compos will get power from HU. Howss that?

hello anonymous!
As most gurus would suggest, power your front comps and the sub (in bridged mode) from the 4ch amp and let the HU take care of the rear coaxes.

[Su-47]

Originally Posted by tsk1979

Just add 2 channel amp(2.5K) and a subwoofer(4.5K with box).
you will have enough boom.
If you go 4 channel amp way you can go for 2.5K coax in rear + small sub.
This will improve your bass and midrange.

Tsk, which 2-channel amp is available at such wonderful price?
And, what do you mean by a small sub? How small is small?

Originally Posted by anonymous

How is this Pio 2950 HU?

I will get to know how good it is in a while (once I am done with the next step..?)

[Su-47]

Navin had mentioned about Sony 552, but on the Sony site I also see these two new amps. Any ideas how are these?
Sony India : XM-ZR604 (XMZR604) : Details
Sony India : XM-ZR602 (XMZR602) : Details

Would these be a good match for:
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/produc...tml#post588270 (JBL GT5 Series)

What are the pros and cons of a sealed box vis. a vis ported one?

Last question: where to go for an install? And, Grey Vs. B&W?

Cheers,
Su-47

[blueraven316]

Originally Posted by Su-47

Navin had mentioned about Sony 552, but on the Sony site I also see these two new amps. Any ideas how are these?
Sony India : XM-ZR604 (XMZR604) : Details
Sony India : XM-ZR602 (XMZR602) : Details

Would these be a good match for:
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/produc...tml#post588270 (JBL GT5 Series)

What are the pros and cons of a sealed box vis. a vis ported one?

Last question: where to go for an install? And, Grey Vs. B&W?

Cheers,
Su-47

Well I would not pair a Sony amp with a JBL sub, as it will be wasting the JBL sub. If you are on a budget you can look into a JBL CS60.2 to run a JBL sub, will sound decent enough. This I am suggesting because you will get bugged with the sony soon, and espeically when you are on TBHP don't make the decision of buying a Sony Amp with a JBL sub.
There are no cons of having a sealed enclosure, except for it cannot get as loud as a ported enclosure, but it has a lot to do with what kind of sound you prefer. Since you are against BOOM, then sealed should be a good option for you. In Sealed too you can make the response change with enclosure size/volume.
When it comes to Speakers/Subs always buy with someone who offers genuine replacement warranty. Amps you can risk grey as almost all parts are available for a repair and they dont cost a fortune (at least for me).

[tsk1979]

Originally Posted by Su-47

Tsk, which 2-channel amp is available at such wonderful price?
And, what do you mean by a small sub? How small is small?

I will get to know how good it is in a while (once I am done with the next step..?)

Well there are a few available. Sony(cough cough!)

By small I mean 10"

[navin]

Originally Posted by Su-47

- I do not want boom and it is prefectly ok if the system is not loud.
- Given the current state of my system, think I would need the cutoff freq of the woofer to be around 120-150Hz.
+ Do woofers have decent frequency response at higher frequencies like 150-200 Hz?
+ Do amps have the LPF setting programmable?
+ Also, is the loudness of woofer controllable?

The spec on my HU (Pio 2950) says it has only 1 preamp out

Originally Posted by Su-47

Navin had mentioned about Sony 552, but on the Sony site I also see these two new amps. Sony India : XM-ZR602 (XMZR602) : Details

Would these be a good match for:
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/produc...tml#post588270 (JBL GT5 Series)

What are the pros and cons of a sealed box vis. a vis ported one?

1. I have not seen the 602 in the market but I my knowledge is not current. maybe the 602 has replaced the 552. BTW JBL's new GT5 amps might be in the same price range as the 602.
2. it will drive a 12" sub well. It does put out about 100W when bridged
3. sealed boxes have less boom but require more power, ported boxes require less power (to achieve the smae SPL) but can BOOM.

Originally Posted by blueraven316

Well I would not pair a Sony amp with a JBL sub, as it will be wasting the JBL sub. If you are on a budget you can look into a JBL CS60.2 to run a JBL sub

The Sony 602 and the JBL 60.2 put out about the same power. They will dive the sub equally well. For full range speakers the 60.2 mightbe a nicer choice though.

[blueraven316]

Originally Posted by navin

The Sony 602 and the JBL 60.2 put out about the same power. They will dive the sub equally well. For full range speakers the 60.2 mightbe a nicer choice though.

Sir I don't think the 300W Sony 2 Channel amp we have been seeing till now will drive a sub as well as the JBL 60.2 as it has a flat LPF switch limiting the way it can be tuned which is not the case on the JBL,
However I have not used the new XM-ZR602 amp, so cannot really say how good or bad it is.