ICE for Station Wagons (Fiat Adventure) - Page 2 - Team-BHP

montyguru · 5th November 2007, 13:18

i think sony has a head unit with vcd and usb port on head unit available in grey for 5500. i don't remember the model number though.

hrsraghav · 8th March 2008, 22:22

Its been really a long time since i decided for ICE, anyhow bcz of some issues with my car, i postponed it earlier.
But today i got somewhat ICE installed in my Adventure
I opted for Blaupunkt MP47 Kingston headunit(12950 before 15% discount) with front 6 inches Blaunpunkt THC 662 (Rs 4950 before 10% Disc)component speakers.

For Rear part I am utterly confused, And I once again need help of gurus
The stock location at rear is of 4 inches, and i don't think that would be sufficient. The dealer suggested me to cut my tray and have a 6x9, but i do use my boot space quite often, and i think puting speakers in tray won't let me use my boot effectively.
Other option I am thinking for is to put 4 Inches in stock location and a Subwoofer or Bass Tube with amplifier.
Or the dealer also suggested me to have 6X9 in a separate boxes, and these boxes can be kept inside the boot area.
Now I don't know, to put spearate boxes for 6X9 and puting them inside boot below tray will be effective and logical or not?
Also if I got for stock 4 Inch peakers with Bass tube and amplifier, I am again not sure whether the effective SQ of speaker and Woofer/Bass tube will be good, reasonable or so so.
And another big question is if I go for this option then what to opt for Bass Tube or Subwoofer. I feel that (I dont have much exposure, so plz correct me if I am wrong) bass tube just creates the thump and the boom created by it is also a bit delayed, so maybe the thump is exciting but the overall orginality of the track is lost.
I don't know the exact effect of a Subwoofer, whether its same as Bass Tube or something else.
My priority is that the originality of the track should not be lost and i should be able to listen all the companents of the music in their original proportion. And I don't want to cut my tray.
And most important part is that my budget is 7 to 8 K.
So all the Adventure Owners, experts and gurus are once again requested to give their inputs and help me finalise the remaing setup.

amitwiz1 · 8th March 2008, 23:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by hrsraghav

And another big question is if I go for this option then what to opt for Bass Tube or Subwoofer. I feel that (I dont have much exposure, so plz correct me if I am wrong) bass tube just creates the thump and the boom created by it is also a bit delayed, so maybe the thump is exciting but the overall orginality of the track is lost.
I don't know the exact effect of a Subwoofer, whether its same as Bass Tube or something else.

This depends on the type of bass you like. If you like "tight" bass, go for a sealed subwoofer. If you'd rather prefer boomy bass, get a bass tube. The best advice I can give you is to 'Listen' to both a enclosed sub and a bass tube before making a decision. BHPians in your city should help you audition these.

hrsraghav · 9th March 2008, 22:31

One more thing with my current setup, The output power of my headunit (Blaupunkt Kingston MP 47) is 4 X 45 W,
the fromt speakers which i have installed are 6 inches THc 662 with a rating for 60 W, but when i put the volume to full, the speakers give noise of overloading, like they have been teared. To elaborate the headunit volume has 66 levels (i don't know its 66 and not 100), but even at the level of 50 speakers starts giving very bad response. I am amased why is this happening, is it because i haven't installed anything for rear speakers or subwoofers and all there power is also being pumped into front speakers, or is there something wrong with speakers, or is it normal?
I wonder what will happen to them if I put a amplifier output to them.

navin · 9th March 2008, 23:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by hrsraghav

the fromt speakers which i have installed are 6 inches
but even at the level of 50 speakers starts giving very bad response.
i haven't installed anything for rear speakers or subwoofers

you should have atleast 3 different distorions

1. THD from the amp 50/66 is almost full volume as the volume pot is log
2. distortion from the speaker exceeding Xmax
3. IM from the amp becuase that 50/66 (probabaly 90% of max power) most chip amps (amps inside HUs) that are not adequately powered (how big a power supply do you expect to fit inside a HU) will be producing IM.

#2 will be the most disconcerting.

remedies are:
step 1: get amp
step 2: get sub and let the sub produce the bass (HPF the front speakers).

hrsraghav · 10th March 2008, 00:18

Hmmmm Hi navin
can you explain me your three points plzz
I didn't get the terms THD and IM

And whether I have choosen wrong set of component speakers or do they seems faulty?

hrsraghav · 10th March 2008, 00:38

@ Navin and other experts
Also please read my earlier post (Post no 17). I have still to decide the rear part of setup (speakers and sub-woofers). So whether i have choosen an under-powered or under-featured front component speakers or thats how they typically behave. And how do you guys suggest for the remaing setup. My Budget is 10K Max.
And boss the place from where i got it installed really sucks. Its altogether a different story, which i will cover later. So please also suggest any better place in gurgaon or delhi where i can get good product, price and installation.

Tool · 10th March 2008, 00:40

no bro.. what sir navin is saying is that your speakers are fine. they are just underpowered. Thats why you are hearing distortion.
you can do damage to speakers by under powering them and also over powering but most speakers get damaged when you pump up the volume without having the power to back you up.
basically what navin ji is saying is the amp inside your HU is not powerful enough to power them.

amitwiz1 · 10th March 2008, 00:56

In short, you need an amp to play at those volume levels without distortion.

navin · 10th March 2008, 12:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tool

no bro.. what sir navin is saying is that your speakers are fine. they are just underpowered. Thats why you are hearing distortion.
you can do damage to speakers by under powering them and also over powering but most speakers get damaged when you pump up the volume without having the power to back you up.
basically what navin ji is saying is the amp inside your HU is not powerful enough to power them.

and that the speakers are not capable of producing bass at the levels desired. so a sub might make sense. most 6" woofers are really good till about 60Hz pushing them below (at 95db+) that is asking for too much. If you listen to hip hop a sub is essential. if you listen to baroque no need for a sub.

hrsraghav · 10th March 2008, 16:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by navin

and that the speakers are not capable of producing bass at the levels desired. so a sub might make sense. most 6" woofers are really good till about 60Hz pushing them below (at 95db+) that is asking for too much. If you listen to hip hop a sub is essential. if you listen to baroque no need for a sub.

Another thing, if i play FM then the distortion is much higher compared to when i play music from a CD or USB.

DerAlte · 10th March 2008, 17:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by hrsraghav

Another thing, if i play FM then the distortion is much higher compared to when i play music from a CD or USB.

Quite likely, since the HU must be playing the FM signal slightly louder than the other signals!

(And I thought I was the only one whose HU plays FM a couple of notches louder than content from other sources.

)

hrsraghav · 11th March 2008, 10:41

Also the bitrate of a FM channel is 96 kbits per sec maximum, and a good MP3 track has a bit rate of 192 kbits per sec.

DerAlte · 11th March 2008, 12:11

^^^No, that does not play a role in loudness, nor distortion as you were experiencing. By the time it hits the amp (internal or external), it is already an analog signal once again. You were experiencing "clipping".

thalavoy · 11th March 2008, 13:03

Raghav, I also had a similar confusion on what to do with rear speakers. Finally, t-bhp member determinus, helped me in going with 4" in the OEM slot. Front were 6" component. I got a HU (JVC - forgot the model) with USB slot for my pen drive. The HU had extra outputs for an amp/woofer for later additions (havent done yet).
Determinus argument is that if you drive most of the times, then just get good front speakers. As I said before, I am happy. BTW, mine is an Adventure too.

10th March 2008, 00:40	#23 (permalink)
Tool BHPian Join Date: May 2006 Location: Mumbai Posts: 341 View My Garage	no bro.. what sir navin is saying is that your speakers are fine. they are just underpowered. Thats why you are hearing distortion. you can do damage to speakers by under powering them and also over powering but most speakers get damaged when you pump up the volume without having the power to back you up. basically what navin ji is saying is the amp inside your HU is not powerful enough to power them. __________________ Why Drink And Drive When You Can Smoke And Fly ??. Front Wheel Drive Is The Work Of Satan !!!

11th March 2008, 12:11	#29 (permalink)
DerAlte Team-BHP Support Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Bangalore Posts: 2,912	^^^No, that does not play a role in loudness, nor distortion as you were experiencing. By the time it hits the amp (internal or external), it is already an analog signal once again. You were experiencing "clipping". __________________ Never believe it cannot be done - it's only that you haven't found out how!!!

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5th November 2007, 13:18	#16 (permalink)
montyguru BHPian Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: delhi Posts: 171	i think sony has a head unit with vcd and usb port on head unit available in grey for 5500. i don't remember the model number though.

8th March 2008, 22:22	#17 (permalink)
hrsraghav BHPian Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Gurgaon Posts: 235	Its been really a long time since i decided for ICE, anyhow bcz of some issues with my car, i postponed it earlier. But today i got somewhat ICE installed in my Adventure I opted for Blaupunkt MP47 Kingston headunit(12950 before 15% discount) with front 6 inches Blaunpunkt THC 662 (Rs 4950 before 10% Disc)component speakers. For Rear part I am utterly confused, And I once again need help of gurus The stock location at rear is of 4 inches, and i don't think that would be sufficient. The dealer suggested me to cut my tray and have a 6x9, but i do use my boot space quite often, and i think puting speakers in tray won't let me use my boot effectively. Other option I am thinking for is to put 4 Inches in stock location and a Subwoofer or Bass Tube with amplifier. Or the dealer also suggested me to have 6X9 in a separate boxes, and these boxes can be kept inside the boot area. Now I don't know, to put spearate boxes for 6X9 and puting them inside boot below tray will be effective and logical or not? Also if I got for stock 4 Inch peakers with Bass tube and amplifier, I am again not sure whether the effective SQ of speaker and Woofer/Bass tube will be good, reasonable or so so. And another big question is if I go for this option then what to opt for Bass Tube or Subwoofer. I feel that (I dont have much exposure, so plz correct me if I am wrong) bass tube just creates the thump and the boom created by it is also a bit delayed, so maybe the thump is exciting but the overall orginality of the track is lost. I don't know the exact effect of a Subwoofer, whether its same as Bass Tube or something else. My priority is that the originality of the track should not be lost and i should be able to listen all the companents of the music in their original proportion. And I don't want to cut my tray. And most important part is that my budget is 7 to 8 K. So all the Adventure Owners, experts and gurus are once again requested to give their inputs and help me finalise the remaing setup.

9th March 2008, 22:31	#19 (permalink)
hrsraghav BHPian Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Gurgaon Posts: 235	One more thing with my current setup, The output power of my headunit (Blaupunkt Kingston MP 47) is 4 X 45 W, the fromt speakers which i have installed are 6 inches THc 662 with a rating for 60 W, but when i put the volume to full, the speakers give noise of overloading, like they have been teared. To elaborate the headunit volume has 66 levels (i don't know its 66 and not 100), but even at the level of 50 speakers starts giving very bad response. I am amased why is this happening, is it because i haven't installed anything for rear speakers or subwoofers and all there power is also being pumped into front speakers, or is there something wrong with speakers, or is it normal? I wonder what will happen to them if I put a amplifier output to them.

10th March 2008, 00:18	#21 (permalink)
hrsraghav BHPian Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Gurgaon Posts: 235	Hmmmm Hi navin can you explain me your three points plzz I didn't get the terms THD and IM And whether I have choosen wrong set of component speakers or do they seems faulty?

10th March 2008, 00:38	#22 (permalink)
hrsraghav BHPian Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Gurgaon Posts: 235	@ Navin and other experts Also please read my earlier post (Post no 17). I have still to decide the rear part of setup (speakers and sub-woofers). So whether i have choosen an under-powered or under-featured front component speakers or thats how they typically behave. And how do you guys suggest for the remaing setup. My Budget is 10K Max. And boss the place from where i got it installed really sucks. Its altogether a different story, which i will cover later. So please also suggest any better place in gurgaon or delhi where i can get good product, price and installation.

10th March 2008, 00:56	#24 (permalink)
amitwiz1 BHPian Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Chennai Posts: 127	In short, you need an amp to play at those volume levels without distortion.

11th March 2008, 10:41	#28 (permalink)
hrsraghav BHPian Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Gurgaon Posts: 235	Also the bitrate of a FM channel is 96 kbits per sec maximum, and a good MP3 track has a bit rate of 192 kbits per sec.

11th March 2008, 13:03	#30 (permalink)
thalavoy BHPian Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Bangalore Posts: 167 View My Garage	Raghav, I also had a similar confusion on what to do with rear speakers. Finally, t-bhp member determinus, helped me in going with 4" in the OEM slot. Front were 6" component. I got a HU (JVC - forgot the model) with USB slot for my pen drive. The HU had extra outputs for an amp/woofer for later additions (havent done yet). Determinus argument is that if you drive most of the times, then just get good front speakers. As I said before, I am happy. BTW, mine is an Adventure too.