The *Active* ICE Discussion Thread

[BHAGWAN]

Originally Posted by low_bass_makker

You dont know about HX-D2..that is strange. Anyways here is some info about it...

Clarion India | HX-D2

Clarion HX-D2 Head Unit : Equal to McIntosh/Nakamichi/Pioneer P9 etc? - Talk Audio Forums

Ya with Steg amps the possibility are endless

Sir,

I knew about it, but had never used it.

Actually I was planning an 'active' re-install of my RS.

Things may be a bit 'stressed' financially.
If things get better, I will go active on the fronts of the RS.
The amplifier cost gets prohibitive.

Maybe, I will buy an Audison VX & replace a Steg from the I-10 & put that Steg in the RS & go active. However, I do not have plave for another amp in the RS. There are 3 of them & it is rather packed.

Actually, I have so much of car audio gear lying around, If I could just sell it all off -40 to 50 % off] I may be in a position to generate some funds.

Fingers are X-ed.

Truthfully my new CD Plaer has landed in ND - yesterday & I shall have to pay for it next week & that is robbing me of my sleep !!!

[BHAGWAN]

Originally Posted by gunbir

Sir actually Clip is right. The Alpine 9887 CAN do 3way active. You have a switch (under the HU IIRC) that you have to select to the active position. Then when you power up, the menus will change to an active setup menu. The Pioneer P80 also does this in a similar fashion.

Thanks Gunbir;

I shall check this out.

This may sound stupid, off the hat, so please do pardon;
If the HU has only 3 rca pre outs, how can one send different signals to different power amps to drive different drive units ?

You see, in the Clarion HU, there are many RCA outs for the 'active config'
How is this done in the Alpine HU ?
Please do try and explain.

Mind you, I still have not checked the 9887 out 'completely' !
So there is room for improvement - for me i.e.

Thanks !

[gunbir]

Originally Posted by BHAGWAN

If the HU has only 3 rca pre outs, how can one send different signals to different power amps to drive different drive units ?

You see, in the Clarion HU, there are many RCA outs for the 'active config'
How is this done in the Alpine HU ?
Please do try and explain.

Sir, the main difference here being that the Clarion can do 4way active and the Alpine 9887, 3way. As you rightly pointed out, with the Clarion, you have 8 channels to play with. While in the Alpine, you only have 6 channels.

Clarion HX-D2 - High, Mid, Low, Sub (front 3way + sub)
In "Normal" mode, the Clarion is configured for Front + Rear + Sub + Full Range. When you select "Network" mode from the setup menu, it converts into 4way active as above. There is also a "Direct" mode for purists where the DSP is switched off and the HU goes full range on all preouts.

Alpine 9887 - High, Mid, Low (front 3way / front 2way + sub)
As mentioned earlier, select active at the switch, and your menus convert to active 3way.

[BHAGWAN]

Originally Posted by gunbir

Alpine 9887 - High, Mid, Low (front 3way / front 2way + sub)

Sir,

Thanks.

Small clarification - please.

The Alpine HU has 3 RAC's out. i.e. 6 channels.
Now, suppose I have 1 set of components in the front & 1 set of components in the back & 2 subs. This will work.

However, what if I want to remove the passive x-over & make the set up active ?
I will need 2 RCA's for the front left & 2 RCA's for the front right. Correct ?
Same for the back componenets.
That means that my 2 components [front & back] will need 8 RCA outs. My Sub's will still be left.
Besides, I need to work on the X-Over for the components [without passive network] The frequency & the slope etc. Will the Alpine give me all this flexibility ? I am not so sure.

The Alpine HU is for an average to semi serious CAR AUDIO enthusiast. I feel. I like it, price to performance is great, but is not an out and out performer.

[gunbir]

Originally Posted by BHAGWAN

However, what if I want to remove the passive x-over & make the set up active ?
I will need 2 RCA's for the front left & 2 RCA's for the front right. Correct ?
Same for the back componenets.
That means that my 2 components [front & back] will need 8 RCA outs. My Sub's will still be left.
Besides, I need to work on the X-Over for the components [without passive network] The frequency & the slope etc. Will the Alpine give me all this flexibility ? I am not so sure.

If you go active with this HU I'm afraid rear fill will have to be abandoned. The HU will only do fronts and sub. And though you can parallel the HUs preouts to multiple amps for a front and rear active setup (even if you you can live with front and rear having same xo, slopes), you will lose out on time alignment. Of course, you can always go active from your amps.

But, if you want to go active with your HU, pretty much forget active rear fill.

Originally Posted by BHAGWAN

The Alpine HU is for an average to semi serious CAR AUDIO enthusiast. I feel. I like it, price to performance is great, but is not an out and out performer.

Exactly.

[navin]

Originally Posted by BHAGWAN

I will go active on the fronts of the RS.
The amplifier cost gets prohibitive.

maybe if you use 5-6 channel amps you can manage. remember the tweeter amp need not be big power.

1 2 ch. amp 150-200W x 2 x 4 ohms for subs
1. 4 ch. amp 75-100W x 4 x 4 ohms for midbasses (front and rear)
1. 6 ch. amp 40-50W x 6 x 4 ohms for front mid and tweeter and rear tweeter

If your fronts are 2 way 2 x 5ch. amps can do the job. there are many 5 ch. amps that can drive a subs at 150-200W and 4 more channels at 50-75W.

Originally Posted by BHAGWAN

Actually, I have so much of car audio gear lying around, If I could just sell it all off -40 to 50 % off] I may be in a position to generate some funds.

we have a section for this.

Originally Posted by BHAGWAN

The Alpine HU has 3 RAC's out. i.e. 6 channels.
Now, suppose I have 1 set of components in the front & 1 set of components in the back & 2 subs. This will work.

However, what if I want to remove the passive x-over & make the set up active ?

If you are using the Alpine you will have to go active at the amp end. however few multi channel amps (4-6 ch.) have TA built in. Gunbir and B&T might be able to list those that do.

[clipto333]

Gunbir, even the HX-D2 i think cannot do front, rear and sub active. Can you list any other Hu that can do 4-way active?

Navinji,

The Audison Vrx and the steg k series have optional Ta modules. Don't know about others.

cheers
clip

[BHAGWAN]

Dear Navin & Clipto,

I am lost;

What does a TA module have to do with set up a ICE in active mode ?
Can you please throw some light ? Please.

We are talking about HU's that can run speakers [components] in an active manner [without a passive x-over]. We do not need to run the components bi-amplified. We need to talk about HU's that can run the speakers through amplifiers and have active x-over in them.

TA is a funstion of tuning the bass in a car. The Arrival of different frequencies at a specified destination [location] !!

You guys have confused me; Please do shed some light.....

Thanks.

[navin]

Originally Posted by BHAGWAN

What does a TA module have to do with set up a ICE in active mode ?
Can you please throw some light ? Please.

We are talking about HU's that can run speakers [components] in an active manner [without a passive x-over].

TA is a funstion of tuning the bass in a car.

I think what you seem to be looking for is a HU that has LPF out and HPF out for front and rear as well as a sub out. so in effect you need 10 RCA outs (or atleast 9 if we consider a mono sub). To behonest I dont thik such a HU exists. I believe that if one really is looking for this level of funtionality one needs a 2 box solution with a HU having 5-6 RCA out and a processor that does the time alignment, x-crossover, and eq functions. Alpine, Pio and I am sure others have such solutions.

My contention is/was that if we can have 9-10 RCA outs why not have TA not only between the sub and the front speakers but also between the midbass and tweeter (sort of like a ladder network used to align tweeters with midwoofers in home audio 2 way speakers). The advantage of this would be that one could delay the tweeter (which is usually mounted closer to the ear) to be aligned with the woofer.

If however you are only looking for Xover funtionality (in the HU) I would do what Gunbir suggested: let the amp do this.

There are many amps (4-5-6 ch. amps) that can accept a fullrange (or almost full range) signal and XO it into a HPF and LPF before amplifiying the same and driving individual woofers and tweeters. I think Steg and Audison both do this. If Clip is right then you can do the TA at the amps too!

[low_bass_makker]

Originally Posted by clipto333

steg k series have optional Ta modules.

Steg K series does not have TA modules..

[BHAGWAN]

Originally Posted by low_bass_makker

Steg K series does not have TA modules..

Spot on Sir !

I am still lost;
Why are we discussing TA on an Active Install thread ?

Most guys here are talking about Bi Amplification of Speakers, not Active Amplification of Components with Active X-Overs !!!!

[low_bass_makker]

Originally Posted by BHAGWAN

Spot on Sir !

I am still lost;
Why are we discussing TA on an Active Install thread ?

Most guys here are talking about Bi Amplification of Speakers, not Active Amplification of Components with Active X-Overs !!!!

I think they are presumming that if one is going active he or she will do TA.

I think this is what Godji is asking for.

[BHAGWAN]

Hi !

You are right;

This is OK, if one has Stegs to use.
Then any HU can work, since all the 'tinkering' happens with 'chips' in the Amplifier.

However, if you do not have Stegs, then which HU can be used ?
That is how this topic has been progressing.

The illustration is good, but it is only applicable for Steg's

If Steg's are not being used, then Which HU can be used to do this ?
That is the Million Dollar Question.

Thanks LBM for the illustration.

[clipto333]

Originally Posted by BHAGWAN

Spot on Sir !

I am still lost;
Why are we discussing TA on an Active Install thread ?

Most guys here are talking about Bi Amplification of he stegSpeakers, not Active Amplification of Components with Active X-Overs !!!!

I dont think we were discussing TA in particular. Please read the post No. 127. navinji said "Gunbir and B&T might be able to list those that do"

i replied listing the amps i thought could do TA with modules.

i don't really understand whats confusing you.

cheers

P..S. - I didn't read your last reply.

No HU can do front + rear + sub active.

[low_bass_makker]

For a 3 way+sub setup in which there is

1. Front tweeter
2. Front Midrange
3. Front Midbass
4. Sub (front or back)

Then one can use

1. Pioneer P9 combo
2. Alpine PXA-H701
3. Alpine PXI-H990
4. Clarion HX-D2

There will be more but these are more popular ones.

For a 3way front + 3 way rear + sub there is no HU in this world. One will need to put external crossovers for the same.

For a 2 way + sub normal HU like Alpine 9887, P80 can do the job.