ICE suggestions needed for Alto

[navin]

Originally Posted by adityamunshi

I never knew they had ignition terminals

That's what B&T calls them (so i had to speak his language), we call them udders! :-)

[abhibh]

Originally Posted by tsk1979

Yes save money on power cables. Using a finolex cable will do the job for you. LBM is himself a fan of buying power cables from such companies rather than overpriced alternatives which perform equally good or in some cases worse

Doesnt seem like a bad option at all. I'll get good quality terminals and all and then can install these, I guess. :-)
How well do they last in In-Car conditions?

Originally Posted by tsk1979

Rather than buying BOSS signal cable, I suggest you get a good quality multi strand wire(finolex again and wrap it in Roti Wrap. No leg pulling here.

I've clearly stated I'm against all the BOSS, Fake JBL wiring crap.
And no way I'm going for Finolex as the signal (RCA) cable even if good connectors are there in market. (Saw some MX terminals yesterday. Appeared good.)
Please be noted that I'm NOT in mood to unnecessarily save money. Even the expense is worth it, I'll do it. Finolex, Havell etc. Power cables are equally good copper, so there I will save money.
But not in signal (RCA) wires/patch cords or speaker wires.

Originally Posted by tsk1979

Actually this is from hearing entry level component system from JBL and Hertz. The sound by both is good, but I found it to be rear heavy.

Confusiiiingggg!!
Components are installed in front. Yet sound is rear heavy. I'm failing to get the connection.

Originally Posted by tsk1979

In my case is 2 4" and 2 6". In component systems you would have 2 tweeters and 2 speakers.

OK.
So 2 x 1way 4" speakers + 2 x 1way 6" speakers?
Please let me also know from where you sourced these drivers and what brand? All I can find here is co-axial or 2way speakers, in those sizes.

Originally Posted by tsk1979

No pulling your leg buddy. Its a fact. In entry level 10" 12" subs there is actually very little difference in the "speaker quality". The design of the box matters much more in how it will sound to you. If you look up the spec sheets of these entry level subs you will see they are similar.

If speaker quality = Build quality, then they can all be equally made for all I care. I just want better sound. And I firmly believe each will sound different even if equally priced. In chandigarh, maximum you will get is Pioneer, JBL, Kenwood, Sony subs. Have heard them enough and for too long to tell you which one is playing. JBL appears to perform best out of all.

Yes, I'll be running a sealed box for sure. Need tight punchy sound.

Spec sheets are hardly anything for real world performance. Compare spec sheets of any three 150cc bikes in market. All will have similar specs as regards power, engine, chassis etc. Yet there will be a world of difference when you actually get down to riding them.

Originally Posted by tsk1979

Everything is made in china nowadays. So chinese does not mean poor quality. So listen and then decide.

Thanks for reassuring my beliefs Sir. I was told otherwise.
Anyways, when you come to think of it. We are manufacturers ourselves. I know the competence or skill or commitment of an average factory employee. Whether a Punjabi/Haryanvi or Bhaiya labour. Same logic.
Whereas Our trips to China have shown even the basic working class to be very motivated and dedicated to work.
I've read here about illusions having good reviews, so seriously considering them. But going by same logic I should also be considering JBL, Bull audio.
hmmmmm......

Originally Posted by low_bass_makker

I would suggest to come down to NCR region for the same. Take a day or two off.

NCR on the Alto. Tough. But will try if I have no other good alternative in Punjab/I give up on the DIY spirit !!

Originally Posted by low_bass_makker

About horns I was playing them a little loud than required so that you can understand what they can actually do.

Have Mercy, oh Lord of Lows!!
Manikjeet was continuosly complaining on the way back of a headache. Too much upfront. Too much treble!

Originally Posted by low_bass_makker

Electra is a metal dome but it is not at all bright. And saying silk`s are less bright is totally incorrect.

Point noted.

Originally Posted by low_bass_makker

You must plan a NCR trip so you can listen to lots of brand which are not available in CHD region.

Tempting! Apart from the usual ones available everywhere, I'll be able to Demo Illusion, GZ's sq line from you, then Rainbows, ID, Bull also :-)

Very tempting for sure!

Originally Posted by low_bass_makker

No comments never heard them

Yes yes. Absolutely! ;-)

Originally Posted by low_bass_makker

But in all this it was playing all the tracks flawlessly with some 150 BPM.

Correct. It was playing 135-140 bpm very nicely. However I need something that will play 160-170 flawlessly.
Been using all office time(and getting scolding in process!!) on visiting international forums. Every single person just praises ID subs for their SQ and sometimes SPL.
I think I will take SpeedZak's suggestion here, unless I happen to hear something even better. (unlikely though, sitting here in Chandigarh!!)

[greenhorn]

if you want cheap but good RCA cables, try MX. They're good enough for use at home. no idea how they behave in a car
EDIT: oh you've seen them already. I've seen MX selling "monster" cables which looked liked the real deal but was cheaper

[Bass&Trouble]

Originally Posted by abhibh

Correct. It was playing 135-140 bpm very nicely. However I need something that will play 160-170 flawlessly.

What sort of music do you listen to buddy? 170 bpm? Are you sure its not 85 bpm and you are counting half-beats.

[vikram18]

Originally Posted by abhibh

Rest Dsk, esk and Mille aren't good.

Mille aren't GOOD? Actually, they're mindblowing! Have you ever heard them before saying this? Do you think they're mad to ask for 30K -60K for comps that aren't good?!

[DerAlte]

Originally Posted by vikram18

... Do you think they're mad to ask for 30K -60K for comps that aren't good?!

Not at all. On the contrary, they have to be really smart to do that, no?! There is nothing wrong in asking a high price. Many people do not agree with the "Performance directly proportional to the price" claims / expectations.

[vikram18]

Originally Posted by DerAlte

There is nothing wrong in asking a high price. Many people do not agree with the "Performance directly proportional to the price" claims / expectations.

Well, that sentence was an extension of what I had written earlier and not an insinuation that just because they're expensive they're good, but to the contrary that they're very good and hence command a high price.

I don't really relate to anyone passing judgment about any product without seeing/using/experiencing it firsthand and thus the shock at someone saying Milles are not good. Anyways, I don't think we'll be seeing too much mention of Hertz/Audison anymore since nobody knows who will be distributing them and both Gunnu and JB are banned

@abhibh - Go ahead with the Illusions, they're both good and VFM

[tsk1979]

Originally Posted by abhibh

Doesnt seem like a bad option at all. I'll get good quality terminals and all and then can install these, I guess. :-)
How well do they last in In-Car conditions?

There is a team-bhp member who made an offer of free cabling for members at one of the threads, you can check with him if you want.
Anyways if you go with wire proof PVC it should do well in in car.

But not in signal (RCA) wires/patch cords or speaker wires.

Buy MX then

Confusiiiingggg!!
Components are installed in front. Yet sound is rear heavy. I'm failing to get the connection.

Oye phraji what I meant was that when you have sub at rear and Components in front, the sub overshadows the components, but if you have 4 speakers in the front, they can give the sub competition. Its just my opinion btw, I am not saying its the best. So listen and decide

OK.
So 2 x 1way 4" speakers + 2 x 1way 6" speakers?
Please let me also know from where you sourced these drivers and what brand? All I can find here is co-axial or 2way speakers, in those sizes.

No its 2 4" speakers one way, and 2 6" speakers again 1 way. Simple loudspeaker. The 4" does the treble and upper frequencies, the in door 6" do the mid ranges.
I bought then 6 years ago with the car. Some Pioneer speakers. I was not into ICE VICE then and just listened to these speakers and found them good. B&T has had an audition of these and his words are
"The best 10,000rs system I have ever heard". 10,000 includes HU BTW

If speaker quality = Build quality, then they can all be equally made for all I care. I just want better sound. And I firmly believe each will sound different even if equally priced. In chandigarh, maximum you will get is Pioneer, JBL, Kenwood, Sony subs. Have heard them enough and for too long to tell you which one is playing. JBL appears to perform best out of all.

Yes, I'll be running a sealed box for sure. Need tight punchy sound.

Spec sheets are hardly anything for real world performance. Compare spec sheets of any three 150cc bikes in market. All will have similar specs as regards power, engine, chassis etc. Yet there will be a world of difference when you actually get down to riding them.

Even I like JBL, but I belive that in budget subs there is little difference between the brands. Its the box that matters more.

[low_bass_makker]

Originally Posted by tsk1979

Even I like JBL, but I belive that in budget subs there is little difference between the brands. Its the box that matters more.

A small topic on the same about subwoofer speed and myths.

WOOFER SPEED
There's a common misconception out there that heavy woofers must be "slow", and light woofers must be "fast". If a woofer A's moving mass is higher than woofer B's, then woofer A is probably going to be sloppy, or slow and inaccurate. Can't keep up with the bass line. Woofer A simply can't respond as fast as woofer B. There's also this concept that the "acceleration factor" (BL/Mms) is an indicator of woofer speed/transient response. High BL, combined with a low Mms, should give great transient response, right?

Well, on surface these might sound like logical assumptions. However, they are in fact incorrect! More to the point, moving mass has precious little to do with woofer speed or signal response! And we'll prove it...

For further info checkout the pdf file.

WooferSpeed.pdf

Originally Posted by abhibh

Correct. It was playing 135-140 bpm very nicely. However I need something that will play 160-170 flawlessly.
Been using all office time(and getting scolding in process!!) on visiting international forums. Every single person just praises ID subs for their SQ and sometimes SPL.
I think I will take SpeedZak's suggestion here, unless I happen to hear something even better. (unlikely though, sitting here in Chandigarh!!)

You bring on 160-170 anything the sub will preform anything perfectly.

I also had IDMAX but I find GZ better.

[Bass&Trouble]

Originally Posted by vikram18

I don't really relate to anyone passing judgment about any product without seeing/using/experiencing it firsthand and thus the shock at someone saying Milles are not good.

I have myself not heard a single Mille series product, but I think it must be very good. The sub from the same line is the current EISA award winner.

You just said that they are mindblowing i.e. very good. Have you heard them?

Originally Posted by vikram18

Anyways, I don't think we'll be seeing too much mention of Hertz/Audison anymore since nobody knows who will be distributing them and both Gunnu and JB are banned

SSPL is distributing them. Same guys who do Boston/ JL etc.

[s0uljah]

Abhi dont know how I missed this but after our many chats Iv realized you have been doing some serious research here instead of studying for your exams

Initially I was under the impression you wanted drivers that are a tad bright, which is why I said illusion might not suit your taste. One occasion I had someone comment there was no treble (all settings FLAT) when they auditioned my setup.

The finolex/MX combo is good, we hooked up a friends 1.9 Palio and its still going strong after 2 years. Only thing is I overlooked the fuse so its direct from the battery to the amp. For speaker cable we used the wire the installers use for Subwoofers

For my install the reason I went with the Scosche amp kit was because I didnt have the time for DIY so it was convenient and price was competitive also.

Wow ID !!!!!!!!! Damping tho lagana hi padega.

[mohang_j]

Originally Posted by abhibh

I've clearly stated I'm against all the BOSS, Fake JBL wiring crap.

abhibh, i have cs1204 in a 1.2cft sealed box and really happy with that which is 2250Rs in grey and the DIY mdf box for 500Rs+ with an MX speaker connector.I am using cs60.2 amp (3000Rs grey)to drive the sub, even-though its not very powerful but in Alto i found its power is sufficient.
I have used Teflon coated power wires which can carry 60A current (80Rs/mtr) and its so thin when compared to Finolex or any other with the same current rating i could insert in one of the existing rubber grommet.
I have made RCA cable with good quality (i think) wire+MX connector (450Rs for 5mtr+RCA connector) and later brought EFX/Monster RCA cable (500Rs for 5mtr cable) but could not find any difference in quality.

[abhibh]

Originally Posted by low_bass_makker

You bring on 160-170 anything the sub will preform anything perfectly.
I also had IDMAX but I find GZ better.

LOL. What's the point in doing it again?

Anyways, reading your above line, I really must play the same track on idmax also when I audition it, just for kicks. Hehe…..

Originally Posted by Bass&Trouble

SSPL is distributing them. Same guys who do Boston/ JL etc.

I hope these guys open shop in Punjab too. I'd love a Hertz Sub for sure....

Originally Posted by s0uljah

Abhi dont know how I missed this but after our many chats Iv realized you have been doing some serious research here instead of studying for your exams

lol yes!
While you were busy doing Ur "Crank Dat", I was busy reading whatever forums I could find on car audio.

Originally Posted by s0uljah

Initially I was under the impression you wanted drivers that are a tad bright, which is why I said illusion might not suit your taste. One occasion I had someone comment there was no treble (all settings FLAT) when they auditioned my setup.

Very good then. After hearing horn speakers in a car (and associated headaches) I'd really prefer a laid back system. You have lucents na ? Heard they are out of production.

Originally Posted by s0uljah

The finolex/MX combo is good, we hooked up a friends 1.9 Palio and its still going strong after 2 years. Only thing is I overlooked the fuse so its direct from the battery to the amp. For speaker cable we used the wire the installers use for Subwoofers

Power cable is Finolex/Havell/L&T for sure. For RCA or speaker wire, need some good reputed stuff.

Originally Posted by s0uljah

Wow ID !!!!!!!!! Damping tho lagana hi padega.

Hehe.
I hope they live up their reputation as on probably every international forum out there. And even here at our forum ;-)
aaho yaar, damping will be there too.

Anwyays, Update guys.
Exams finished yesterday. So I went to our construction site in Baddi, HP to supervise work there.
Met a dude(asst. architect) there. Delhi/Gurgaon number zen. He showed me his system. It had an exad series JVC HU with time alignment. And tell ya what guys, I was TOTALLY blown away buy the sheer midbass. Mazzaa aa gaya.
You audio guys keep spoiling my budget LOL. Now dreaming of somehow shoehorning in a Time Alignment wala HU…..

[Sam Kapasi]

Originally Posted by abhibh

Now dreaming of somehow shoehorning in a Time Alignment wala HU…..

Super. TA is an excellent plus point - go for it. Paisa to aata jaata hai. Look at LBM, paisa sirf jaata hi jaata hai ICE par. lol.

[cooldude1988765]

Hi just a quick question hope you dont mind abhibh...
Can u guys recommend a good sub under 10-15k that can play house very well (128-132bpm) well. Actually the cheaper the better
My premier dvc sucks for house. Can only play hip hop and desi :(