TV subwoofer transplant to car audio?

[rocksterraghu]

Stop thinking about it. Now. Please.

[Glass]

The gurus getting emotional!?
I assure I am not going to do it and break everyone's heart, but would like to know why gurus are so united against this!
Insults to the car, car running away and car's tears apart (so much for your car love and personification ), are there practical reasons why this is outrageous?

1. Is the technology out and out different between a car and TV (A/C or DC, different voltage etc.)?
2. Is it impossible to physically fit that kind of a box into a car?
3. Will it necessarily be of poor quality to destroy existing sound (or is this an assumption coloured by feelings? - the box did very well on the TV)
4. I read on this forum some HUs are capable of powering a sub directly to reasonable levels. Why then can't this work off a HU?
5. If HU power is the only constraint, what would make this inferior to a regular sub, if I add in an Amp?

Thanks (Fire!).

[DerAlte]

Originally Posted by iraghava

Tch Tch Tch....Uncleji your hindi is going to the dogs! The correct translation would be "Haraa Seeengh"!!

Arrey bhole manoos, somehow "Haraa Seeengh" takes away the humor, and makes it sound like "hara bhara kabab"!

Originally Posted by Glass

... practical reasons why this is outrageous?

1. Is the technology out and out different between a car and TV (A/C or DC, different voltage etc.)? Yes, different impedance, different gain due to surroundings, different tolerance of surrounding, different sound power output (you don't have road and engine noise in your living room, now do you?)
2. Is it impossible to physically fit that kind of a box into a car? No, you can definitely fit it under the front seats
3. Will it necessarily be of poor quality to destroy existing sound (or is this an assumption coloured by feelings? - the box did very well on the TV) The TV had a large room around it, the car presents a much more limited volume around it (read up on Car Gain). This box is most likely playing efficiently around 60-70Hz. One talks of a car sub (or even a decent HT sub) going down to at least 30Hz. A ported box is "boomy" and one does not expect a plastic BR box to be even more "boomy" than a wooden BR box. The venerable B (@bhagwan; read up on his i10 thread; he feels downright nauseous with such arrangements)
4. I read on this forum some HUs are capable of powering a sub directly to reasonable levels. Why then can't this work off a HU? Maybe you could point us to those instances? No one said it can't, just that at those power levels you will really have to hunt for the low frequencies in your car, it will be so low volume
5. If HU power is the only constraint, what would make this inferior to a regular sub, if I add in an Amp? Quality of low frequencies and the "boominess" (unnatural resonance) associated with a plastic BR box

Originally Posted by Glass

Thanks (Fire!).

Where? What fire? Fire what? Fire at what?

[anupmathur]

To satisfy Glass' curiosity, I would recommend he should try out his TV bass unit driven from the HU.

For the record, Der Alte, could you please explain the following a bit more:
(numbered as per your previous post)

1) In what way is a car amp or speaker designed to overcome such noises? And what does 'different sound power output' mean?

3) Without complicating the subject with low freq cut-offs, how would this box perform in the range it was designed for?
Would its performance in a car change so radically that it would make the car feel suicidal?

4) This is pure conjecture. Having personally tried out 'domestic stereo speakers' in a car, I think it a bit extreme to say that one would have to hunt for the lows because their intensity would be so low!

5) Isn't the 'quality' and 'boominess' best decided by the user. Who knows that some users might find this quite acceptable.

[greenhorn]

Glass, well, the point is , it probably has a driver ~5 inches, and since the enclosure is plastic, will end up sounding a lot worse than your rears, and in fact will have less bass than the rears , considering the fact that
1) the driver is smaller 5" as opposed to 2 6x9 drivers
2) the enclosure will be smaller the volume of the plastic box as opposed to the whole boot/area under parcel shelf
3) will have to be driven off one channel of HU
4) plastic enclosure as opposed to wood.

It is not a proper sub , it would be more correct to call it a bass module. It helps supplement the mids and lows from the 3 inch full rangers you usually see on TV's. This is more like the woofer you see in cheap PC 2.1 systems.

A Bad analogy would be saying that you cant afford fog lamps , and if you could use the reflectors + bulbs from a torch instead
Do-able , but not much of a point to it

[DerAlte]

Originally Posted by anupmathur

To satisfy Glass' curiosity, I would recommend he should try out his TV bass unit driven from the HU.

For the record, Der Alte, could you please explain the following a bit more:
(numbered as per your previous post)

With all due respect to one of the wisest men on TBHP:

1) In what way is a car amp or speaker designed to overcome such noises? And what does 'different sound power output' mean? A car amp or speaker design is not meant to overcome such noises, but the overall system design is: one needs a system with a bit more punch in that band to be heard over the noise. This box falls squarely in that band - much of its audible power will be in the 60-200Hz range. Conversely, if the system designed for a car were to be installed in a room, it would sound unnaturally bass-heavy.

3) Without complicating the subject with low freq cut-offs, how would this box perform in the range it was designed for? One can safely assume that the original design was meant for a different surrounding and power level.
Would its performance in a car change so radically that it would make the car feel suicidal? Looks like the humor was lost on you! The performance wouldn't change inherently, it would just be insufficient for the application.

4) This is pure conjecture. Having personally tried out 'domestic stereo speakers' in a car, I think it a bit extreme to say that one would have to hunt for the lows because their intensity would be so low! Apples v/s oranges comparison, no? Everything from Lajpatrai Market speakers to exotica would produce sound, but there is a general average understanding of what is "good" sound. Even without discussing frequencies, decibels and watts - maybe one can try listening to the lower organ or piano notes with such speakers that you describe, whether in the car or in the living room. Or even test tones in the 20-100Hz range? Music can be heard and appreciated even without those, but conversely one doesn't conventionally classify systems - where that range is absent - has high-fidelity systems

5) Isn't the 'quality' and 'boominess' best decided by the user. Who knows that some users might find this quite acceptable. Very true. In fact, the number of satisfied users of systems where the subwoofer or tweeter output dominates (especially the ones that don't stop 'ringing' till 3 notes beyond) the music and the surroundings for a 100m radius, FAR OUTNUMBER the users of systems which produce a balanced natural sound, the way it was originally intended to (fidelity)!

[redfire]

Car speakers are usually shallower to fit into doors and things in the trunk.

Car speakers are typically more efficient because most car stereos produce less than 25 RMS per channel.

Most home speakers are 8 ohms while car speakers are 4 ohms or less which draws more power.

Common car speakers are typically coaxial (not always) - with all the drivers in one frame covering all frequency ranges.

Car speakers require thier own box and have some type of weather proofing from sun and moisture.

It is not that one can't try, but it will never match what a good car system can deliver. Have tried creative subs in car and never got what needed.

[Glass]

Originally Posted by DerAlte

Where? What fire? Fire what? Fire at what?

Thanks for the explanation. I was getting ready to get fired by the gurus again!

Originally Posted by anupmathur

To satisfy Glass' curiosity, I would recommend he should try out his TV bass unit driven from the HU.

Yes, I am not fond of screwing up the sound. But yes, will do some experiment just to get a feel as long as it doesn't blow up the HU.

Originally Posted by greenhorn

Glass, well, the point is , it probably has a driver ~5 inches, and since the enclosure is plastic, will end up sounding a lot worse than your rears, and in fact will have less bass than the rears , considering the fact that
1) the driver is smaller 5" as opposed to 2 6x9 drivers
2) the enclosure will be smaller the volume of the plastic box as opposed to the whole boot/area under parcel shelf
3) will have to be driven off one channel of HU
4) plastic enclosure as opposed to wood.

Thanks. Makes sense.

[anupmathur]

Originally Posted by Glass

the box did very well on the TV

Originally Posted by DerAlte

The performance wouldn't change inherently,

Der Alte, thank you so much for your patience. And you are too kind, Sir. I really do not deserve such status.
The above two remarks quite sum up what I'm trying to say.
Glass ought to go ahead and give it a shot. He'll also come to know where in the audiophiles list he figures, lol!

[DerAlte]

Originally Posted by anupmathur

... I really do not deserve such status.

Mathur-saheb, theek hai, theek hai - you are the epitome of humility!

Originally Posted by anupmathur

Glass ought to go ahead and give it a shot. He'll also come to know where in the audiophiles list he figures, lol!

By all means, of course. We were just making him conscious of expected results. But, that said, one really has to go ahead and experiment - knowledge and experience do not come without a few trials and errors. And "audiophile" is not a term to sprout horns for, nor to feel that one should sink into earth if not - it is usually a "mine is bigger than yours" folly!!!

[Glass]

I did not know what a component system or a coaxial is until I started browsing tBHP a few weeks back. So this is all good, thanks!

[anupmathur]

Originally Posted by DerAlte

And "audiophile" is not a term to sprout horns for, nor to feel that one should sink into earth if not - it is usually a "mine is bigger than yours" folly!!!

How right! There you are! There is common ground that we have found.
In fact it is a term that has quite fallen out of favour.
However, for want of a suitable 'replacement'. it keeps on finding usage.
I am at a stage where I simply advise each one choose to what makes him happy and I strongly advise NOT to feel 'guilty' about it! The way I do not feel at all guilty about being a Bose fan!

[anuragn]

I read somewhere (don't remember where) that people listen to their music but audiophiles listen to their stereos! I believe that audiophile-ness is only one extreme end of the spectrum where only hardware quality matters (along with quality of recording) but the content never gets evaluated in terms of music sense.
And hence, many modern day "audiophiles" prefer not to be called one.