Another audio query... - Team-BHP

gkrishn · 12th May 2005, 12:26

Planning to upgrade the company fitted audio setup in the sail.

I already have a Sony HU.. its a CDX 5500.

Requirement is to have a crispy clear music. Not much interested in bass, don’t have enough space for them too. Budget is 20k max.

Also i want minimum amount of cutting and drilling to be done. So I am planning to use the OEM fitment size as much as possible. After doing some search decided on

amp: 4 channel XM-504z
Rear: xs-gt6937x (3-way)
Front: xs-hf 600g/500g (Component)
All Sony...

Need suggestion on the setup. Is this good or can be done in any better way?
My main problem is fitting this 3-way speaker in rear. With boot space at premium, (some times to keep a large suitcase have to remove the parcel tray) can I also use a component in the rear? If so, then will there be any driver left for the low end bass at all?

Had some good feedback about the pioneer from some of my friends. Any suggestion for equivalent of pioneer or any other brand?

Thanks,
GK

navin · 12th May 2005, 17:06

the cheapest option is to upgrade the speakers in the front door.

if you intend to use the parcel tray, the parcel tray of the sail is a light flexible fiber one. i would suggest replacing this with a MDF one. however the MDF is heavy and the hydraulic hatch will have trouble lifting this tray so you might have to resort to lifting the parcel tray by hand if you need access to the bags in the back. you can see how this will work for you by disconnecting the rubber bands that lift your existing parcel tray.

there is an alternate to this but i wont suggest it right now. it is diffcult to say the least and involves fiberglass moulding.

once you got the parcel tray sorted out this is what i would suggest.

2 6" woofers in th parcel tray. this wont give you a ton of bass but will supplement the front door and tiny rear pod speakers and 4-5" components in the rear pods. the reason i recomend components in the rear pods is that the pod location is such that if you were to add co ax drivers there the HF of these drivers would be damped.

as too the brands i leave this you as this is a matter of taste. one word of caution the sony 504 amp is quite a sharp/harsh amp and you should try reversing the phase of the tweeters in your component speakers. it might just tame it.

gkrishn · 12th May 2005, 17:42

Quote:

i would suggest replacing this with a MDF one. however the MDF is heavy and the hydraulic hatch will have trouble lifting this tray so you might have to resort to lifting the parcel tray by hand if you need access to the bags in the back. you can see how this will work for you by disconnecting the rubber bands that lift your existing parcel tray.

This should not be a problem. Can live with this. As long the MDF tray is detachable when its not required... no problem

Quote:

2 6" woofers in th parcel tray.

Thats a nice idea. But, are woofers available at such small size? Any model u know of?

Quote:

tiny rear pod speakers and 4-5" components in the rear pods.

Didnt understand this part. What u mean by rear pod? The place where current rear speakers are sitting?

Quote:

the reason i recomend components in the rear pods is that the pod location is such that if you were to add co ax drivers there the HF of these drivers would be damped.

Please explain this too... didnt get it... what is a co ax driver???

navin · 13th May 2005, 00:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by gkrishn

This should not be a problem. Can live with this. As long the MDF tray is detachable when its not required... no problem

Thats a nice idea. But, are woofers available at such small size? Any model u know of?

Didnt understand this part. What u mean by rear pod? The place where current rear speakers are sitting?

Please explain this too... didnt get it... what is a co ax driver???

1. the MDF tray will be as detachable as your existing tray
2. yes many. alpine, blaupunkt, jbl, polk, vifa, focal, audax and more. my wife's sail has vifa (4 of them powered by a blaupunkt velocity).
3. the rear pods are the existing locations.
4. a coax driver is one that has the tweeter in the center of the woofer like the sony 6x9 you were considering. a componenet system is a 3 pc system a woofer, tweeter and passive crossover.

hope this helps.

navin · 13th May 2005, 11:02

one more trick.....

if you are getting component speakers.

if you can pry open the crossover easily (careful not to break the box it will loose it's ari tight seal)

get 2 polyester/polystyrene 0.1mfd or 0.22mfd (uf) / 400V caps (CTR makes them) from lamington road. they are yellow in colour. looked like they care covered in yellow plasticy paper.

locate the series capacitor of the tweeter XO.

solder the CTR caps in parallel with the exisitng series cap.

reason:

most XOs use bipolar caps (usually 2 of them in series to make them non polar). these bipolar caps while they do fthe job of filtering well are not as good as polyester caps.

however polyester caps of the value they need are expensive. so by using a small value polyester cap you are bypassing the bipolar caps in the critical range.

gkrishn · 13th May 2005, 11:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by navin

2. yes many. alpine, blaupunkt, jbl, polk, vifa, focal, audax and more. my wife's sail has vifa (4 of them powered by a blaupunkt velocity).

Can u detail the setup u have in the sail???
I was going thru the velocity broucher too... how much do they cost???

navin · 13th May 2005, 17:24

HU: Alpine 9830 (robbed from my Octavia which was upgraded to a 9833)

Amps: Velocity and GTA 450

Speakers: Vifa 5" and 1" tweeter in the front, Vifa 4" and 1" tweeter in the rear pods, 4 modified 6" Vifa woofers in a custom deck.

Rear Deck: Original sail deck reinforced with resin bonded fiberglass and damped with lead strips. I modified the deck so that it is light enough to be lifted by the hydraulics (you have to changed the rubber straps that hold the deck to the hatch as well) but stiff enough not to flex or "dance" too much. There is still some work left on it.

Crossovers are home made using CTR polyester caps and ferrrite core inductors (air core inductors were too large). XO's one finalised are sealed in epoxy (araldite). For XO boxes I used the boxes you get for visiting cards.

Wires are custom made by my brother in law (in singapore) cant divluge the details.

As far as the cost of this is concerned i tend to get all mixed up. I am constantly mixing and matching components that we bought for one car with another (not only mine and my wife's, but also my mom's car, my 2 brother in laws cars, and my nephew's car). After a while I cant keep the numbers straight. Somehow I cant stop tinkering. I am fortunate my family tolerates this. :-)

amitverma · 14th May 2005, 02:11

as a sony fanatic myself, i also leaned towards sony during the installation of my car audio setup at first, until i later realised that sony aint no big in car audio.
considering ur budget:
HU: Blaupunkt Bahamas -- dont remember the model no.
Amp: Sony 504 would do -- since u arnt much concerned abt deep bass -- the velocity would crack ur bugdet -- a decent 4 channel would cost u arnd 18k
Front Speakers: Pioneer 4-6" -- dont rem the model no.
Rear Speakers: Pioneer 6991 -- Highly Recommended!!!

PS: Add Subwoofer to your liking...
End of Recipee for a nice Car Audio Setup

gkrishn · 16th May 2005, 11:07

Any one have an idea where the MDF are avalable in bangalore???
Tried and sundaram and at hot tracks... they have only wooden planks.
Thanks,
GK

gkrishn · 16th May 2005, 17:08

Got the quote from the sundaram guy...

pioneer Amp GM 4000 - 6800 rs

front
pioneer tweeter ts20 - 2450 rs
pioneer 5 inch - 1900rs

rear
6990 - 3900rs

mdf parcel tray - 1300rs
boss kit with r.c cable - 1250rs

Are these reasonable? Is there room for bargaining here???

navin · 17th May 2005, 22:39

why not look at other brands.

vivaid · 18th May 2005, 10:38

Hey krish... here's my 2 cents for ur music sys set up...

My zen has an all blaupnkt set-up.. had got it done in early 2001...

Jackson HU.... boxed rear speakers and 5 inches front speakers...

no amps.. no subs.. no nothing.... and believe me... for a cassette player.. the system rocks.....

Lately, here's the set up i have gone in for on my baleno...
- Alpine - 9826 HU - audio cd and Mp3.... Co-axial, 3 way rear speaker and 6 inches, 3 way speakers in the front doors... Frankly.. i am quite pleased with the entire set up... costed me around 22 grand.... excellent sound quality.... the MX (media expander option) just magnifies the bass... good equalizer setting options... net net.. JHAKAS!!

never been really keen on amps and subs .. simply the marginal utility concept for me goes against it.....

cheers

vivaid · 18th May 2005, 10:57

btw the rear and the front speakers are JBL.....

gkrishn · 18th May 2005, 11:38

Okie... the problem here is, i dont want to discard my existing HU. Also not that much confdent about it ability to drive the speakers. Thats one reason why i was looking at putting a amp in the setup.

Will take into account the jbl thing...

navin · 18th May 2005, 11:51

let me understand this. you got 20K to spend on amps and speakers in a Sail. htis is what i would do in order of importance.

1. upgrade fronts to good components. Alpine, JBL or Blaupunkt
2. get a bass tube for the trunk
3. get a 4 channel amp
4. upgrade rear speakers

all 4 would cost you more than 20K though. just the 1st 2 would make a big difference.

12th May 2005, 12:26	#1 (permalink)
gkrishn BHPian Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Bangalore Posts: 410 View My Garage	Another audio query... Planning to upgrade the company fitted audio setup in the sail. I already have a Sony HU.. its a CDX 5500. Requirement is to have a crispy clear music. Not much interested in bass, don’t have enough space for them too. Budget is 20k max. Also i want minimum amount of cutting and drilling to be done. So I am planning to use the OEM fitment size as much as possible. After doing some search decided on amp: 4 channel XM-504z Rear: xs-gt6937x (3-way) Front: xs-hf 600g/500g (Component) All Sony... Need suggestion on the setup. Is this good or can be done in any better way? My main problem is fitting this 3-way speaker in rear. With boot space at premium, (some times to keep a large suitcase have to remove the parcel tray) can I also use a component in the rear? If so, then will there be any driver left for the low end bass at all? Had some good feedback about the pioneer from some of my friends. Any suggestion for equivalent of pioneer or any other brand? Thanks, GK

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12th May 2005, 17:06	#2 (permalink)
navin Team-BHP Support Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: mumbai Posts: 12,576	the cheapest option is to upgrade the speakers in the front door. if you intend to use the parcel tray, the parcel tray of the sail is a light flexible fiber one. i would suggest replacing this with a MDF one. however the MDF is heavy and the hydraulic hatch will have trouble lifting this tray so you might have to resort to lifting the parcel tray by hand if you need access to the bags in the back. you can see how this will work for you by disconnecting the rubber bands that lift your existing parcel tray. there is an alternate to this but i wont suggest it right now. it is diffcult to say the least and involves fiberglass moulding. once you got the parcel tray sorted out this is what i would suggest. 2 6" woofers in th parcel tray. this wont give you a ton of bass but will supplement the front door and tiny rear pod speakers and 4-5" components in the rear pods. the reason i recomend components in the rear pods is that the pod location is such that if you were to add co ax drivers there the HF of these drivers would be damped. as too the brands i leave this you as this is a matter of taste. one word of caution the sony 504 amp is quite a sharp/harsh amp and you should try reversing the phase of the tweeters in your component speakers. it might just tame it.

13th May 2005, 11:02	#5 (permalink)
navin Team-BHP Support Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: mumbai Posts: 12,576	one more trick..... if you are getting component speakers. if you can pry open the crossover easily (careful not to break the box it will loose it's ari tight seal) get 2 polyester/polystyrene 0.1mfd or 0.22mfd (uf) / 400V caps (CTR makes them) from lamington road. they are yellow in colour. looked like they care covered in yellow plasticy paper. locate the series capacitor of the tweeter XO. solder the CTR caps in parallel with the exisitng series cap. reason: most XOs use bipolar caps (usually 2 of them in series to make them non polar). these bipolar caps while they do fthe job of filtering well are not as good as polyester caps. however polyester caps of the value they need are expensive. so by using a small value polyester cap you are bypassing the bipolar caps in the critical range.

13th May 2005, 17:24	#7 (permalink)
navin Team-BHP Support Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: mumbai Posts: 12,576	HU: Alpine 9830 (robbed from my Octavia which was upgraded to a 9833) Amps: Velocity and GTA 450 Speakers: Vifa 5" and 1" tweeter in the front, Vifa 4" and 1" tweeter in the rear pods, 4 modified 6" Vifa woofers in a custom deck. Rear Deck: Original sail deck reinforced with resin bonded fiberglass and damped with lead strips. I modified the deck so that it is light enough to be lifted by the hydraulics (you have to changed the rubber straps that hold the deck to the hatch as well) but stiff enough not to flex or "dance" too much. There is still some work left on it. Crossovers are home made using CTR polyester caps and ferrrite core inductors (air core inductors were too large). XO's one finalised are sealed in epoxy (araldite). For XO boxes I used the boxes you get for visiting cards. Wires are custom made by my brother in law (in singapore) cant divluge the details. As far as the cost of this is concerned i tend to get all mixed up. I am constantly mixing and matching components that we bought for one car with another (not only mine and my wife's, but also my mom's car, my 2 brother in laws cars, and my nephew's car). After a while I cant keep the numbers straight. Somehow I cant stop tinkering. I am fortunate my family tolerates this. :-)

14th May 2005, 02:11	#8 (permalink)
amitverma BHPian Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: New Delhi Posts: 324	as a sony fanatic myself, i also leaned towards sony during the installation of my car audio setup at first, until i later realised that sony aint no big in car audio. considering ur budget: HU: Blaupunkt Bahamas -- dont remember the model no. Amp: Sony 504 would do -- since u arnt much concerned abt deep bass -- the velocity would crack ur bugdet -- a decent 4 channel would cost u arnd 18k Front Speakers: Pioneer 4-6" -- dont rem the model no. Rear Speakers: Pioneer 6991 -- Highly Recommended!!! PS: Add Subwoofer to your liking... End of Recipee for a nice Car Audio Setup

16th May 2005, 11:07	#9 (permalink)
gkrishn BHPian Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Bangalore Posts: 410 View My Garage	Any one have an idea where the MDF are avalable in bangalore??? Tried and sundaram and at hot tracks... they have only wooden planks. Thanks, GK

16th May 2005, 17:08	#10 (permalink)
gkrishn BHPian Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Bangalore Posts: 410 View My Garage	Got the quote from the sundaram guy... pioneer Amp GM 4000 - 6800 rs front pioneer tweeter ts20 - 2450 rs pioneer 5 inch - 1900rs rear 6990 - 3900rs mdf parcel tray - 1300rs boss kit with r.c cable - 1250rs Are these reasonable? Is there room for bargaining here???

17th May 2005, 22:39	#11 (permalink)
navin Team-BHP Support Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: mumbai Posts: 12,576	why not look at other brands.

18th May 2005, 10:38	#12 (permalink)
vivaid BHPian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Mumbai Posts: 67	Hey krish... here's my 2 cents for ur music sys set up... My zen has an all blaupnkt set-up.. had got it done in early 2001... Jackson HU.... boxed rear speakers and 5 inches front speakers... no amps.. no subs.. no nothing.... and believe me... for a cassette player.. the system rocks..... Lately, here's the set up i have gone in for on my baleno... - Alpine - 9826 HU - audio cd and Mp3.... Co-axial, 3 way rear speaker and 6 inches, 3 way speakers in the front doors... Frankly.. i am quite pleased with the entire set up... costed me around 22 grand.... excellent sound quality.... the MX (media expander option) just magnifies the bass... good equalizer setting options... net net.. JHAKAS!! never been really keen on amps and subs .. simply the marginal utility concept for me goes against it..... cheers

18th May 2005, 10:57	#13 (permalink)
vivaid BHPian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Mumbai Posts: 67	btw the rear and the front speakers are JBL.....

18th May 2005, 11:38	#14 (permalink)
gkrishn BHPian Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Bangalore Posts: 410 View My Garage	Okie... the problem here is, i dont want to discard my existing HU. Also not that much confdent about it ability to drive the speakers. Thats one reason why i was looking at putting a amp in the setup. Will take into account the jbl thing...

18th May 2005, 11:51	#15 (permalink)
navin Team-BHP Support Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: mumbai Posts: 12,576	let me understand this. you got 20K to spend on amps and speakers in a Sail. htis is what i would do in order of importance. 1. upgrade fronts to good components. Alpine, JBL or Blaupunkt 2. get a bass tube for the trunk 3. get a 4 channel amp 4. upgrade rear speakers all 4 would cost you more than 20K though. just the 1st 2 would make a big difference.