Car Audio Advice from the Audio Gurus: Use "Search thread" before posting a new Q!

[aseem]

Originally Posted by Vivekphadnis

Aseem,


The high pass filter passes frequencies above the set frequency but it will not mean more bass since you are cutting off the lower frequencies. Remember, lower frequencies have more depth and that is the bass you hear. What you mean is the sound is louder and that gives the feeling of more bass.

allan, the punch you hear from a low frequency driver depends on the enclosure volume, how well it is designed and a million other factors. Though car speakers are meant to be free air ones, they will sound better in boxes.

Well actually with HPF set at 65Hz and sound setting lound, you still get bass which is more than the normal sound setting. However the frequency at which the bass is coming is more within the spectrum at which the speaker doesnt distort.
Please try this if you have a Sony set, and see for yourself. Of course, speakers are not optimized for lower frequencies, thats why ppl go for subwoofers and bass tube. However this is a nice workaround if you dont have sub or a bass tube.

[muni]

I think vivek answered it to the point quite well..jst to put it in the question and answer perspective

Originally Posted by ntomer

Hi People,
IThe Sony dealer showed me a set of cables which he says will greatly enhance the working of amp and bass tube. It cost 1200 bucks, what's your take on it. Do I need to buy cables myself, or the amp/tube comes with it? which brands are good and how much do they cost. \N

I agree with vivek, the gain is hardly perceptible unless u r an audiophile or playing music to find the difference Decent set of cables will do.

Originally Posted by ntomer

One more thing, the company default setting for Loudness is Off, at this setting the bass was very low but sound was very clear. When I turned-on loudness, the bass increased dramatically but clarity reduced. Is this normal behaviour? Navin please explain what Loudness means. When the loudness was on, and I increased the volume the sound distorted at even less than one-third the full volume;\N

Having seen normal audio amplifiers, the loudness option boosts the volume( all frequencies) to an extent+ some gain in Mid and High frequencies. Basically an equaliser setting+increased SPL ( SOUND Pressure Level)

Originally Posted by ntomer

when I install the amp-tube what setting you guys suggest so that the sound doesn't distort even at very high levels.
My system has built-in High and Low pass filters. The low pass filter has two options 65 Hz and 150 Hz, what does it mean. How can I use to better the sound?
In the end, thanx to Navin/Sam/Aseem, I learnt a lot from you guys.

\N

As vivek quoted if u set it at low levels say 40-65 Hz the system plays low frequencies (bass) better..u need to have a Sub to feel it. Always dont drive the systems to the limit as distortions creep in from the speakers. U cannot have the same Bass/ treble settings for all types of music to sound optimum as it depends upon at what level the source has been recorded and how u want them to sound.

[xtreme power]

dudes i go pionner 12 inch 800 watt woffer ..i was wondering whether to put it in the parcel tray or should i put in an enclosure in the boot...which will give me better loud and clearer base....
and also should i put the speakers in the tray or should i put those also in the box.....the sub that i have is a 12 inche ts w 504 f free air sub
lastly rite now i got a 222 sony amp so should i power only the subs or the subs and the speakers with it...
i basically like loud clear music...
please suggest some stuff cause i got to get it done soon
take care and keep left...
allan

[Vivekphadnis]

Well actually with HPF set at 65Hz and sound setting lound, you still get bass which is more than the normal sound setting. However the frequency at which the bass is coming is more within the spectrum at which the speaker doesnt distort.
Please try this if you have a Sony set, and see for yourself. Of course, speakers are not optimized for lower frequencies, thats why ppl go for subwoofers and bass tube. However this is a nice workaround if you dont have sub or a bass tube.

Aseem, you may get louder sound with that setting but that is not the same as getting 30 or 40 Hz from a well designed subwoofer. When you set the HPF cutoff to 65Hz, all frequencies above 65Hz will be amplified. Maybe it is loud but not true bass. And obviously by using the loud feature, you are pushing the driver cones closer to their mechanical limits which will destroy the voice coil.

[aseem]

Originally Posted by Vivekphadnis

Aseem, you may get louder sound with that setting but that is not the same as getting 30 or 40 Hz from a well designed subwoofer. When you set the HPF cutoff to 65Hz, all frequencies above 65Hz will be amplified. Maybe it is loud but not true bass. And obviously by using the loud feature, you are pushing the driver cones closer to their mechanical limits which will destroy the voice coil.

Of course I realize that without a woofer you cant get deep base. However did a google search on bass and here is the frequence range that I found.
The bass octaves are: deep bass -- 20Hz to 40Hz; bass -- 40Hz to 80Hz; and upper bass -- 80Hz to 160Hz.

[navin]

Originally Posted by pranil

What is a good setup for Getz.
It does have speaker positions on the door.( all four)
1. Are the sizes ok without changing any setup or breaking any plastics. I hate to do that.
Do I need a Subwoofer. My Wife hates bass and normally my rear speakers are on low. Like front 5 and rear 2 balance.

from what i understand the Getz uses 16cm (160mm) speakers for the doors.

Subwoofers and amplifiers are used when is looking for a bit more than average sound.

Subwoofers do 2 things. (a) they produce more bass than your regular speakers can (b) they also free up your regualr speakers from teh demand of producing bass allowing them to do a better job of the mids and highs.

A subwoofer can be used at any level and even at low levels can add fundation to the music. If however your taste in music do not require any bass (like acapella, solo guitar, solo voice, etc...) you can avoid using a subwoofer.

I think this has been said before but to repeat If your budget is under 20K i would budget about 50% for the HU and 50% for the 4 speakers. At that price point I dont think you can get a decent subwoofer or external amplifier. The cheapest amplfier seems to be teh Sony 504 at rs. 4200 and the cheapest sub is a blaupunkt tube at about 7000-8000.

[navin]

Originally Posted by xtreme power

dudes i go pionner 12 inch 800 watt woffer ..i was wondering whether to put it in the parcel tray or should i put in an enclosure in the boot...allan

please read post 259 in this thread.

[navin]

Originally Posted by Vivekphadnis

What is happening is that the speaker cones are being driven beyond their maximum excursion. That is why they distort. That is why I said keep the volume within limits or you risk burning out the voice coils.

Aseem,
The high pass filter passes frequencies above the set frequency but it will not mean more bass since you are cutting off the lower frequencies. Remember, lower frequencies have more depth and that is the bass you hear. What you mean is the sound is louder and that gives the feeling of more bass.

allan, the punch you hear from a low frequency driver depends on the enclosure volume, how well it is designed and a million other factors. Though car speakers are meant to be free air ones, they will sound better in boxes.

clarifications:
1) The physical limits of a loudspeaker often differ and are usually much less tolerant than the thermal limits. So a spekaer rated at say 100W rms might not be able to even handle 10W at 20Hz. This is becuase the speaker's cone is being pushed beyond it's designed limits. So while the speaker might not burn out the sound will be severly distorted. If you feel the need for more bass add a subwoofer. One sad truth about sound (no mater what Dr. Bose claims) to get low frequencies you have to move air. Sadder is the fact that to double the loudness at any particular frequencie one has to move about 8 times more air! ouch! I wont go into to the mathematics of this but anyone interested can access the AES papers.

2) The human ear is not a linear device. It is extremely non linear and at the same time it is extremely accurate (in the midrange). Tests have proven that between 250Hz and about 4000Hz the human ear is the most accurate device known. The non linearity of the human ear was fisrt comphrehensively documnted by Ms. Fletcher and Munson who published a set of curves documenting their findings. These curves have since been revised by the general principal is still the same. With the HPF off you are sending more bass to the speakers then with the HPF on. With the HPF on yor speakers can handle more power (read above explantion) and hence can sound louder but less "bassy".

[navin]

lastly, thank you vivek and aseem for filling in for Sam and me.

[aseem]

Originally Posted by navin

lastly, thank you vivek and aseem for filling in for Sam and me.

Hey Navin, no mention. This has become a nice passtime...
Just wanted to add that the cheapest Bass Tube can start around 4k. The JBL 12" Bass tube comes at 5k with bill.
People who want bass but dont have the budget, can go for a 2 channel amplifier for 2k and Sony sub woofer for 2.8k.

[xtreme power]

can some one please tell me whether i should put my tsw 305f free air sub in a box or in the tray behind for my honda city.....the city does not have a tray behind..its like thin metal..whats the best thing to do
pleaseee advice me...help needed urggently

[aseem]

Originally Posted by xtreme power

can some one please tell me whether i should put my tsw 305f free air sub in a box or in the tray behind for my honda city.....the city does not have a tray behind..its like thin metal..whats the best thing to do
pleaseee advice me...help needed urggently

Go for the box. Tray in the back is a very bad idea. Its a nightmare for the people sitting in the back, on top it cant handle the vibrations.

[navin]

XP like i said read post 259 to quote it "most speakers will usually sound better in a box. car speakers are usually designed for free air which means large or lossy boxes. however the rear decks of most hatchbacks are made of thin fiber that flexs a lot and will not make a good sounding board. making boxes is often easier than a good rear deck that does not flex or rattle. you can tune a box by using aperiodic vents (making a box more lossy) to your taste".

Is there some part of this you need explained differently?

[navin]

I would suggest that you build a box out of 18mm Medium Desnity Fiberboad and brace the panels so that all you get when you rap them with your knuckles is a dead sound not any resonace like you would get if you hit a drum skin. build the biggest box you can get away with. a 12" usually need about 2 cu. ft. + to breathe but like was mentioned earlier if the box is too small and the bass too lumpy one can tune this to some extent by using an aperiodic vent.

ofcourse if you are inclined you can follow a more extreme method of building a box. see post 9 on this thread. It is not very extreme but will suffice for your car box.
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/showthread.php?t=6491 (Thiele-Small parameters)

I have seen some very extreme boxes using cross ply carbon fiber like this one
http://www.wilson-benesch.com/reviews.html
or
http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/danadigital/108.html

[Sam Kapasi]

Hello from BANGALORE!!

Hey, i went to Ooty for the Hyundai conference. Awesomely cold. Took the company optra with the infinity reference system, I'm going to put up the pictures tomorrow afternoon when I reach Delhi.

BTW another option for the swift, which takes up less space and is tighter for sure is the bass boxx.

Cheers
(Navin, Kaisa hai? what news of the octi?)