Car Audio Advice from the Audio Gurus: Use "Search thread" before posting a new Q!

[Technocrat]

tsk: after reading your post I think a cheap Sony amp should do the job for you check out this 2 channel amp its mrp is 3790 Sony Xplode XM-552ZR Also for your requirement I think evena 10 inch sub would do the job.. just a suggestion

[tsk1979]

Ok, so I take the sub output, give it to the amp by a parallel 1:2 connection, and then take the amp ouput which I presume is L, R, Gnd, connect L/R to one input of sub and connect the Gnd to the Gnd input of sub?
Am I correct here?

Anyways 6K amp sounds good.

[Vid6639]

6K is the JBL 60.2. The sony 552 comes for like 3K. you need to connect it to the bridged channels. Generally it is +ve of one and -ve of the other going to the sub +/-.

for example +ve of left channel going to +ve of sub and -ve of right channel going to -ve of sub.

Power and ground will be separate for the amp. +ve power will go to car battery with inline fuse and ground to car body ground.

[tsk1979]

Ok I get it now.
Here is what the amp output will look like
(Red) (Black) (Red) (Black).
I connect first red to sub +, black of second to Sub - and short the First black with second black?

EDIT: got it How to Bridge an Amplifier - WikiHow
It says that the amp will be damaged if its not bridgeble

[navin]

Originally Posted by tsk1979

I presume is L, R, Gnd, connect L/R to one input of sub and connect the Gnd to the Gnd input of sub?.

No usually the bridged output is acorss the -ve L and + R terminals. The Sony 552 sells for about 3K and will put out 100W x 1 when bridged but only for a 4ohm sub. It will not drive a lower impedance. However if I remember the Sony 552 will come with instructions on bridiging so dont worry.

[tsk1979]

Ok, the final question, for my use, that is good base guitar, good drums(for metallica), and good low frequency weird sounds(for floyd) will the JBL 6K amp give a much better improvement over the Sony 3K amp?
Sony says 5Hz to 50KHz freq response. But I guess that does not mean much.
Any idea about Pioneer prices in this amp space. I understand that Pioneer is gray market prices.

[navin]

Originally Posted by tsk1979

will the JBL 6K amp give a much better improvement over the Sony 3K amp?

I dont think the Sony amp carries a warranty either. As far as better it depends. I have not heard either of the 2 amps and one would have to hear them with the sub to tell for sure.

[Vid6639]

Sony should have a warranty. heres the link.

Sony India - like no other


I'll check the bridging connections on my amp and let you know.

[tsk1979]

So most of my queries are answered. Thanks, one last one though, the 10K 4 channel amps can drive 4 speakers + 1 subwoofer?
So I 4 channels are bridged, they can drive 2 subwoofers?

Some HUs have something called center speaker output for surround, is that different from the subwoofer output, or in surround mode the same thing is used as center speaker output.

The spec sheet talks about 20Wx4 + 2.0V subwoofer output, so I am guessing, thats the center speaker.

In the 2 channel amp space are there any 2.1 channel amplifiers too?

I am guessing that an amplifier which can drive 4 channels + center channel + 1 channel will be called a 5.1 AMP? Atleast in world of computer speakers thats the case.
4.1 Channel amp : 4 speakers + one woofer, 5.1 Channel setup : 4+1 channels + woofer

[Vid6639]

Nope the 4 channel ones can drive either 4 speakers or 2 speakers and a sub or 2 subs. I'm not sure if there are more combinations.

i guess 5.1ch amps are different. I think the TRU amp which KB100 has is a 5.1ch. I'm not sure.

[Technocrat]

Yes sony does have 1 year warranty on all their ICE products atleast I got one for my amp & sub

[hydrashok]

Originally Posted by tsk1979

So most of my queries are answered. Thanks, one last one though, the 10K 4 channel amps can drive 4 speakers + 1 subwoofer?
So I 4 channels are bridged, they can drive 2 subwoofers?

Actually, they can drive two speakers and a sub.

Yep, you can bridge the channels so the amp drives 2 subs. (2 chs bridged to 1 + 2 chs bridged to 1).

Originally Posted by tsk1979

Some HUs have something called center speaker output for surround, is that different from the subwoofer output, or in surround mode the same thing is used as center speaker output.

The spec sheet talks about 20Wx4 + 2.0V subwoofer output, so I am guessing, thats the center speaker.

That's the subwoofer-out. This pre-out is meant to be connected to an amp that will drive the sub.

DSPs would have center-ch outs for sure, but I don't know of HUs with center-ch outs, but I guess the gurus will know of them.

Originally Posted by tsk1979

In the 2 channel amp space are there any 2.1 channel amplifiers too?

I am guessing that an amplifier which can drive 4 channels + center channel + 1 channel will be called a 5.1 AMP? Atleast in world of computer speakers thats the case.
4.1 Channel amp : 4 speakers + one woofer, 5.1 Channel setup : 4+1 channels + woofer

There are 3 channel amps, meant to drive a front+sub system (front speakers and a sub). There are 5 channel amps (= to a 4.1 setup) and there are 6 channel amps. But all these amps are usually very costly Audison, Alpine, JL Audio (5ch yes, dunno about 3 or 6 ch) etc have these amps. Some other brands also have these amps (don't know them all :P)

[iraghava]

Originally Posted by tsk1979

Ok, the final question, for my use, that is good base guitar, good drums(for metallica), and good low frequency weird sounds(for floyd) will the JBL 6K amp give a much better improvement over the Sony 3K amp?

Yes, it will definetely since the Sony 2-ch (I own its predecessor the 222) is not even able to drive a 10" sub satisafactorily. I would seriously suggest that if you can spare 6k for the JBL 2-ch you might as well buy the Pioneer 6100 at 7.5k and amplify both the front comps & the sub. Sony 2-ch would not do any sub justice, hell it couldn't even drive a 6.5" bass tube in my car satisfactorily!!

[Bass&Trouble]

Mood mein aa gaye to bahut sawaal poochte ho! Good good.

In car audio, all amplifiers can be bridged except one channel amps (duh), and the amps in head units (well, most of them). Exceptions to this rule you can forget about, since you wont come across them anymore.

Bridging appears to be like uniting two channels to function as one, but even in bridged mode, both channels are operating in stereo, but you are just tapping mono.

Bridged mode can support only double the lowest impedance load you can use in stereo. So conversely, if your amp is working with a 4 ohm load in bridged mode, it will 100% work with 2ohm loads connected to L&R channels, i.e. stereo.

Hence the amplifier can be used in such a way that the effective impedance at the bridged terminals is lowest of 4 ohms, and lowest of 2 ohms for L-R.

So you can connect a 4 ohm load playing sub-bass or full-range, or connect a 4-ohm sub playing sub-bass and at the same time use full range speakers playing everything minus sub-bass in L-R and thus get both mono and stereo out of the same 2 channels of an amp, and yet remain effectively over the permissible 2ohm per stereo channel rule.

Center channel is not ideal for stereo but can be used if you use a surround processor. Otherwise, it is a must for 5.1 formats like DVDs encoded in DTS, Dolby Digital, and while using the surround outs.

Originally Posted by tsk1979

Thanks, one last one though, the 10K 4 channel amps can drive 4 speakers + 1 subwoofer?
So I 4 channels are bridged, they can drive 2 subwoofers?

As per my above theory, they can drive 2 subs of 4ohms each (or a zillion subs that can be configured to be at 4ohms at the amplifier's bridged terminals, by serial-ing/ parallell-ing), and 4 more speakers in stereo mode.

Originally Posted by tsk1979

Some HUs have something called center speaker output for surround, is that different from the subwoofer output, or in surround mode the same thing is used as center speaker output.

These must be DVD HUs. Subwoofer outputs are somewhat unique to car audio receivers. In home audio, players or amps rarely have 'subwoofer' outputs. Only Surround Sound amps will have them. That is the '0.1' output. It is not something created by the amp or the player, it is just a separate channel altogether that was created when the mastering was done. In car audio, the player takes the full range output of the cd and takes out sub-bass information, and channels it through one set of pre-outs.

Originally Posted by tsk1979

The spec sheet talks about 20Wx4 + 2.0V subwoofer output, so I am guessing, thats the center speaker.

If they say subwoofer output, it means subwoofer output. 2V is the pre-out's max level. Subwoofer output contains only bass information. Center channel consists of mainly vocal information, and other information central to the image in the case of video.

Originally Posted by tsk1979

In the 2 channel amp space are there any 2.1 channel amplifiers too?

If you mean some amp to drive a pair of speakers and a sub, you can do it in different ways using either a 2 channel amplifier or a 4 channel amplifier, or a 2 channel amplifier and a separate monoblock. Or a 4-channel amp in bridged mode to drive two speakers, and a monoblock to drive one subwoofer (we call this 'The Navin Way'), or a 4-channel amplifier in bridged mode to drive two speakers and 4 monoblock amplifiers to drive each of the 4 voice coils of a single quad voice coil sub (and this will be 'The LBM Way'). So 2.1 is subjective. In fact 0.1 is slightly incorrect for usage with reference to car amplifers in a stereo setup.

Originally Posted by tsk1979

I am guessing that an amplifier which can drive 4 channels + center channel + 1 channel will be called a 5.1 AMP? Atleast in world of computer speakers thats the case.
4.1 Channel amp : 4 speakers + one woofer, 5.1 Channel setup : 4+1 channels + woofer

4 channels + subwoofer section amplifier is a 5-channel amp.
5 channels + subwoofer section amplifier would be an amp designed to accept surround input. Hence, the fifth full range channel is for center channel and the sub section is for the 0.1. This would be a real 5.1 amplifier.
6 full range channels would be a 6-ch amp. Similar to a 5 channel amplifier, except that this will mostly be Class AB through and through, while the 5 channel amp will be Class D for the subwoofer section. Such amps are quite rare.

Whew!

[nura]

Thank you, Navin, for your wonderful reply.

The 5-channel Alpine MRV-F450, from the V12 Power Series, is unfortunately not available in India officially. The 4-channel MRV-F540, from the same V12 Power Series, is available and retails for 30K+.

I am posting the comparative specs for other interested members but as you always say, one needs to hear before deciding. Unfortunately, in Kolkata, this is often impossible, as equipment is usually unavailable and has to be paid for in advance and ordered from another city. The advice of those BHPians, who have heard both amps, is therefore of vital importance to me.

MRV-F540 V12 Power Series
14.4V RMS Continuous Power
4 Ohms Stereo (0.08% THD) 80W x 4
2 Ohms Stereo (0.3% THD) 100W x 4
Bridged 4 Ohms (0.3% THD) 200W x 2

MRP-F450 V-Power Series
RMS Continuous Power (at 14.4V, 20 Hz – 20 KHz, CEA2006)
Per channel into 4 ohms (1%THD) 70Wx4
Per channel into 2 ohms (1%THD) 100Wx4
Bridged 4 ohms (1%THD) 200Wx2

Please note that for the MRV-F540 the figures are at lower THDs than for the MRP-F450.
Since my HU has only 2 pairs of preamp outs (no sub out) do I need Y-connectors if I buy a 5-channel amp and use it to drive front speakers, rear speakers and a sub? Are there any disadvantages?
Nowadays many HUs have inbuilt XOs and most amps have them too. Component speakers (sometimes coaxials too) come with their own XOs. Can too many XOs (like too many cooks) actually spoil the musical broth?