Car Audio Advice from the Audio Gurus: Use "Search thread" before posting a new Q!

[navin]

ajay, he lost his pony some time back so dont use that photo as a reference.

[navin]

BTW sam and aseem, could you guys help mclaren out. i am useless and this model - price thing.
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/showthread.php?t=7332 (advice on upgrading my sony system for my zen??)
poor guy has been waiting for some time.

[mclaren1885]

thanks a lot navin,really kind of u..ya been waiting for ur comments too..need ur suggestions too on this,sams and aseems will follow urs soon i hope..so y dont u begin 1st!!!

[navin]

Originally Posted by mclaren1885

thanks a lot navin,really kind of u..ya been waiting for ur comments too..so y dont u begin 1st!!!

i thought you wre waiting for prices anyway it is done! enjoy!

[Buffetfan]

Originally Posted by aseem

Consider Alpine 983X series systems. The best would be 9833, Mood got it for 16.6k with b & w. I personally have Sony 8800, and I love this system. It also has a wired remote, which is more like an indicator knob as opposed to going on the steering. As far as I last read, the Alpine's dont support the wired remote on the steering option. Navin might shed some more light on this.

Aseem..many thanks for your quick response...for now I have decided to stick to my Pioneer as it is the only one with 2 years warranty and the steering mounted remote is so cool...I will be getting a free replacement for the 7450..

Sam,
I will try to find out today if the two amps (cs 50.4 (for all speakers) and the monoblock bass amplifier..GTO 301.1) have come in with the 606 ces and 936es and the 120d subwoofer...cut quite a big hole in my pocket since Ashok was quick to convince me to revise my budget

I have two more remaining questions for you and the team (anyone who cares to answer ..just to remind..I have a Baleno...

1. Connecting wires....which one should I use...
2. What is the best place to place these two amps?? behind the rear seat??? I am planning to put the subwoofer in a box in my boot..(which box should I use..and again..any clues on where to get one in hyd)..also
3..how about all the heat generated by teh amp..should I put some thing between the amp and the seat before mounting it???

[navin]

I would install both amps on the back fo teh rear seat. the larger amp should be on the 60% section and the smaller amp on teh 40% section of the rear seat. no need to worry about heat. the way most amps are installed the heat sinks of teh amps will be facing teh trunk.

I find most ready made boxes to be substandard so i build my own. I guess any carpenter dan make one for you out of 19mm MDF.

Interconnects are a issue. Belden interconnect wire is not available in india to my knowledge but their speaker wire is. for interconnects I roll my own using 100/40 instrument grade wire and some RCA plugs I imported. 100/40 BTW stands for 100 strands of 40 guage each. 100/38 i find is too fat to hide under the carpet. I am not sure if this wire is OFC thought and i find monster to be too expensive for what it does.

[aseem]

Originally Posted by Buffetfan

Aseem..many thanks for your quick response...for now I have decided to stick to my Pioneer as it is the only one with 2 years warranty and the steering mounted remote is so cool...I will be getting a free replacement for the 7450..

Sam,
I will try to find out today if the two amps (cs 50.4 (for all speakers) and the monoblock bass amplifier..GTO 301.1) have come in with the 606 ces and 936es and the 120d subwoofer...cut quite a big hole in my pocket since Ashok was quick to convince me to revise my budget

I have two more remaining questions for you and the team (anyone who cares to answer ..just to remind..I have a Baleno...

1. Connecting wires....which one should I use...
2. What is the best place to place these two amps?? behind the rear seat??? I am planning to put the subwoofer in a box in my boot..(which box should I use..and again..any clues on where to get one in hyd)..also
3..how about all the heat generated by teh amp..should I put some thing between the amp and the seat before mounting it???

Hi Buff,
I feel the setup you are going for is an OVERKILL. This car's audio system is built to make pure, natural, neutral, fresh and clear sound. The setup you have suggested above will be loud, but there is a difference between a loud sounding and a good sounding system. The objective of the audio system is reproducing sound as naturally as possible.
So how to differentiate between a good sounding system and a boom boom system is to close your eyes and focus on music! If you cant tell whether you are sitting in a car or a concert, thats an ideal system. Ideally an audio sytem should have real life sounds from HU and an amp. The sound should appear to come from the front of the car (front staging), and should appear like someone is playing music by standing on the hood of the car. The stereo image should be wide and should appear to be broader than the car itself. The sound must detach from the speakers. Every instrument should have its own place in the sound stage, which should reach far beyond the boundaries of the physical speakers.

Please see the picture below, the first picture depicts ideal sound staging:



Personally I would recommend the following setup:

1) Amplify only the front two speakers
2) Use the rear only as FILLERS
3) Amplify the woofer

Always think of innovative ideas to place your amplifier. Find cubby holes in the hood of your car, or below your dashboard etc. Two things to keep in mind:
1) The amplifier should have no direct sunlight directed towards it
2) It should have proper breathing

Any system is as strong as the weakest link. Many times people do not get the proper power from their amplifier due to bad wires and they keep getting a more powerful amplifier as they think that something is wrong with the amp. However 60% of the amps potential is hidden in proper cabling. The GTO 301.1 comes with "JBL wiring kit", so all you need is good cables for your speakers (Belden wires).

Another thing to keep in mind when going in for an amplifier and a subwoofer is to make sure that your amplifier can handle the subwoofer. For example, I am getting JBL bass tube for 5k and JBL 1000 B for 5k as well. I have a Sony 504Z amplifier to run them (140 RMS bridged). Common sense will make you believe that I should go for a 1000 Watt (250 RMS) JBL GTO 1000 B woofer as opposed to the 500 Watt (150 RMS) tube. However if I go for it, I will have to worry about the amp clipping the signal to the sub to try and make more power for the sub which requires a little under double the power. The tube however has 150 RMS, so I will be able to drive the tube and reach its potential.

If I was you this is what I would do:
1) Get rid of the CS 50.4 and GTO 301.1
2) Go in for JBL GTO 75.4 for 15k with bill and warranty (you can get 10% off on the 15k price)

The JBL GTO 75.4 has the same RMS as the GTO 301.1 in bridged mode. So use the GTO 75.4 in bridged mode to run your Sub and use the other two channels for the front speakers. The front speakers will get more power as compared to CS 50.4 and the sub will be happy too. You should avoid amplifying the rear speakers. The sound should be focused from the front and will be severely affected by rear fill if done the wrong way.

[aseem]

Originally Posted by navin

1. Alpine makes one of the best sounding HU - Touche'
2. Yes Pioneer's Super Tuner has always been better but since when did FM provide better sound that CD?

Navin I never said that FM will sound better than CD, all I intended was that prespective Alpine buyers should know that Alpine doesnt really have the best radio reception.
Blankpunt makes excellent radios. If listening to raido is your thing, than Blankpunt is your choice.

[navin]

i've not used blaupunkt much so dont know.

one thing though aseem i would recommend amplifiying all speakers even teh rear ones.
1. the HU's amp cannt be as good as even a sony 502.
2. with the HU's amp off the HU will run cooler. cooler = better.

so get 5 channels (6 if you want to bridge 2) using the 3 for the front and sub and keep 2 for the rear. yes i would use more power to the front speakers than rear as you do want your soundtage in the front.

[aseem]

Originally Posted by navin

i've not used blaupunkt much so dont know.

one thing though aseem i would recommend amplifiying all speakers even teh rear ones.
1. the HU's amp cannt be as good as even a sony 502.
2. with the HU's amp off the HU will run cooler. cooler = better.

so get 5 channels (6 if you want to bridge 2) using the 3 for the front and sub and keep 2 for the rear. yes i would use more power to the front speakers than rear as you do want your soundtage in the front.

Navin, not all HU's come with an internal amplifier. I know Alpine does, so in case off Alpine turning the HU's amplifier off would mean better music as the HU will have more power for better sound than driving speakers.

If you amplify the output to the rear speakers as well, how can you
have more power for the front? by setting the fader to the front?

I think for a 5510 or 5-8k stereos (without internal amps) one can just go with a 4 channel amp to power the front (Components) and the woofer.

[Buffetfan]

I guess since I have ordered now I will find it difficult to change the order...I will use the fader in the HU to get a better concert effect

the other problem is that 75.4 will damage the front speakers is used at full blast (100 rms / channel) versus 70 rms speaker rating for the front JBL components....so the option is to buy either infinity front speakers or some coaxial front speakers with better power handling but reduced clarity

[aseem]

Originally Posted by Buffetfan

I guess since I have ordered now I will find it difficult to change the order...I will use the fader in the HU to get a better concert effect

Don't be sad, more power is always better than less power. All I had mentioned was a cheaper way to achieve what you wanted!

[aseem]

Originally Posted by Buffetfan

I guess since I have ordered now I will find it difficult to change the order...I will use the fader in the HU to get a better concert effect

the other problem is that 75.4 will damage the front speakers is used at full blast (100 rms / channel) versus 70 rms speaker rating for the front JBL components....so the option is to buy either infinity front speakers or some coaxial front speakers with better power handling but reduced clarity

More power is always better than less power. A speaker is not damaged if it has an RMS of 60 Watts and an amplifier of 100 Watts. A speaker is damaged only if you send frequencies to the speaker which it can not handle. Use the HPF (high frequency crossover) feature on the amplifier to cut low frequencies from going in to speaker.

A speaker has more chances of being damaged if run from an under powered amplifier as opposed to an over powered amplifier! Contrary to the popular belief.

[aseem]

Originally Posted by Buffetfan

I guess since I have ordered now I will find it difficult to change the order...I will use the fader in the HU to get a better concert effect

the other problem is that 75.4 will damage the front speakers is used at full blast (100 rms / channel) versus 70 rms speaker rating for the front JBL components....so the option is to buy either infinity front speakers or some coaxial front speakers with better power handling but reduced clarity

Please don't spoil such a nice setup going with the wrong speakers. The speakers have to be COMPONENTS period period PERIOD!

As stated before a more powerful amplifier is more preffered than a low powered amplifier. Here is why:

Low powered amplifiers clip in order to provide higher power to higher RMS speakers. Since the signal going in to the woofer off the speaker is not a pure sine wave (for a lower powered amp, when clipping occurs for extended period) the speakers get thermally damaged. Clipping occurs when an under powered amp is connected to drive a higher RMS speaker. The amplifier in order to deliver more power, sends a square wave instead of a sine wave. Thermal damage occurs as a lower powered amp is not able to move the woofer of the speaker as much as a higher powered amp. The movement of the woofer is very important for speakers cooling (cooling of the voice coil). Thus the speaker becomes hot and is damaged.

The damage you are worried about using a higher powered amplifier to drive the speakers is Mechanical damage. Mechanical damage mostly occurs if someone suddenly/normally runs the volume very very high, or when you send the wrong frequencies (low frequencies) which the speaker is not designed for.
With the high pass filter you can filter the frequencies going in to the speaker and rest assured that your speakers will work just FINE!!!
Happy Listening!!!

[k_ajay]

This is my final calling to clear my confusion on which amp to go for... Silly, I have this doubt that Sony 504 isn't the best or will suffice for my JBL 936s and 506 comps..... Wierd feeling,

Also, can someone, for once and for all, justify which outta the 2 is better and help me decide on one....

1. Blaupunkt GTA 450

4/3/2-channel output stage
Max. power 4 x 100 W / 2 x 320 W
RMS power 4 x 50 W / 2 x 160 W
Bridging mode: 4/3/2 Channels
Variable high- and low-pass filter
Bass Boost 0/9/18 dB switchable
Dimensions (W x H x D): 322 x 49,5 x 232 mm

2. Sony XM 504z

4/3 Channel Stereo Power Amplifier
• MOSFET Power Supply
• Maximum Output Power:
4Ch x 100W at 4Ω
2Ch x 125W + 1Ch x 250W at 4Ω
4Ch x 125W at 2Ω
•Frequency Response:5Hz-50KHz
• High Pass Filter (selectable): 80Hz, -12dB/oct
• Low Pass Filter (selectable): 80Hz, -18dB/oct


I need the amp to power the 100rms ovals and 55rms comps..... And I don't think I wanna spend more than 5k... or something VERY close to it.... And I need to buy it by end of tomorrow [Saturday, 3rd Sept] ..

Btw, we're taking our first car delivery tomorrow A Tata Indica diesel. Hope you guys wish me luck ... Cheers

AK