Swift ICE - Confused, Scared & Happy

[gunner fan]

Well well well...

Its that time of the year (well to be true after almost 2 years), when the stock ICE seems lame (mine actually is) and there is reason (Vitamin M) one can look forward to be happy. Mind you 'Recession' is still bobbing its head (S&P 500 Index) and the fact that I wont be using the car for too long, Vitamin M is only for VFM stuff.

So VFM as objective is why I am Confused!!!

Scared - having been a guest follower of tbhp (misplaced my handle / pwd and took me a while to be back on tbhp) I am quite aware of the tendency to SLIGHTLY (smirk) overspend when it comes getting suggestions for anything ICE. Gurus on a lighter note - do you end up getting a cut from the manufacturers as you do end up marketing them (am referring to all ICE manufacturers and not anyone in specific).

Happy - well knowing that I will be getting advice from the Gurus, the one thing I will be sure of is quality and unbiased opinions and views. In the end its all upto my ears and whats in between (hope I am quoting Sam (JBL Man) correctly)


Well to the real deal now. My current ICE setup (not much) is as follows -
Car - DDIS
HU - JVC KW-AVX800
Front - JBL P652
Rear - Pioneer TS-D691R

The above setup was done almost 2 years ago when I had almost 0 knowledge of ICE. Today I'm no better expect for knowing that I need to change / add the following bits to the setup -

1. Replace the Front Coax with Comps (budget 6 tops 7 K) - this is where i start pulling out my hair due to the options discussed on tbhp. I primarily listen to urban music (rap, hip-hop, rnb) in addition to some rock, trance and desi stuff. I would prefer the bases and mid range deep and the tweets not too loud (in simple words probably a laid back comp)

Considering following (prices quoted by dealer also mentioned where possible)
a) JBL GTO 608C (4.8K)
b) Infinity Ref 6.5" (7.8K)
c) Velocity vc172 / vpc172 <confused> (5.5K)
d) Illusion Electra 6.1 (should be roughly 6K thou he was putting me off them saying its sourced from US and *** is not good)
e) Bull cs650.75 (should be < 6K - again he was putting me off saying its manufactured in India and not that good)
f) Boston 60 (not idea on pricing - I was again given the US doody)


2. Amps to drive the comps and the rears (budget 6 tops 7 K again) - life here is probably simpler (maybe because of budget constraints). The following are the pieces I have shortlisted -
a) Kenwood 8401 (between 5 and 6K)
b) Blau GTA4 MK II (~6K) - i was told to avoid this as it is quite a 'weak' amp (surprised)
c) Local (read Glider) amplifiers (~7K for 1400 W) - dnt really trust the local stuff


Pls do let me know which of them should I shortlist for auditions based on what i like to listen to and where would i be able to audition some / all of the above. Also in case i am missing any options, then please feel free to complicate my life
Also are the prices I have been quoted roughly fare? And the miscellaneous in getting the above installed (power / RCA cables) - what should i go for?

Looking forward to 'gyan' from the gurus

Also do point me in case there is any thread to understand ICE better. I have already gone through the glossary thread.

Cheers
Sam

[navin]

Originally Posted by gunner fan

HU - JVC KW-AVX800
Front - JBL P652
Rear - Pioneer TS-D691R

1. Replace the Front Coax with Comps (budget 6 tops 7 K) . I primarily listen to urban music (rap, hip-hop, rnb) in addition to some rock, trance and desi stuff. I would prefer the bases and mid range deep and the tweets not too loud (in simple words probably a laid back comp)

Considering following (prices quoted by dealer also mentioned where possible)
b) Infinity Ref 6.5" (7.8K)
d) Illusion Electra 6.1
f) Boston 60 (not idea on pricing - I was again given the US doody)


2. Amps to drive the comps and the rears (budget 6 tops 7 K again) - a) Kenwood 8401 (between 5 and 6K)
b) Blau GTA4 MK II (~6K) -

Looking forward to 'gyan' from the gurus

1. For bass you need to do 3 things.
a. damp the car - the trunk and the doors atleast
b. get a subwoofer - a good 10" subwoofer will outperform most 6x9s in the bass (you'l need about a 1 cu. ft. sealed box with a 10" from JBL, GZ, ID, etc..)
c. upgrade the big 3 power cables.

If you prefer a laid back sound Infinity, Illusion, Boston, should be part of your short list. All three are about 7-8K.

If you decide on getting a subwoofer then the Kenwood amp might be a better option than then Blaupunkt. I am told the 8401 is discontinued and the amp they sell now is the 8404 (I think).

Also if you intend on getting a subwoofer you can donate the 6x9s to another car and use the front speakers for the rear doors (rear passengers). Another option since you like Urban music is to donate the Coax and keep the 6x9s along with the sub. You can listen to both options and choose

Power the front components and subwoofer from the amp and the other speakers (6" coax or 6x9s) from the HU.

[gunner fan]

Thanks NavinJi

Originally Posted by navin

1. For bass you need to do 3 things.
a. damp the car - the trunk and the doors atleast

Damping is in plan. Will be getting the front doors damped.

Originally Posted by navin

b. get a subwoofer - a good 10" subwoofer will outperform most 6x9s in the bass (you'l need about a 1 cu. ft. sealed box with a 10" from JBL, GZ, ID, etc..)

Sub is planned for the next stage of upgrade. Not sure how long this ride will be with me so planning accordingly. Or maybe after getting the comps and amp in, if the thump is badly missed, might go in for the sub this time itself (chukle)

Originally Posted by navin

c. upgrade the big 3 power cables.

Hope i understnd you right - the power cables would be a new set coming in. Big 3??? u lost me there

Originally Posted by navin

If you prefer a laid back sound Infinity, Illusion, Boston, should be part of your short list. All three are about 7-8K.

Aye aye - will get an audition of these

Originally Posted by navin

If you decide on getting a subwoofer then the Kenwood amp might be a better option than then Blaupunkt. I am told the 8401 is discontinued and the amp they sell now is the 8404 (I think).

Sir i know the 8401 is discontinued but am able to get sourced thru an installer. 8404 is definitely the new version but the moolah for it is also a new figure (and almost 60% higher than 8401)

Originally Posted by navin

Also if you intend on getting a subwoofer you can donate the 6x9s to another car and use the front speakers for the rear doors (rear passengers). Another option since you like Urban music is to donate the Coax and keep the 6x9s along with the sub. You can listen to both options and choose

Power the front components and subwoofer from the amp and the other speakers (6" coax or 6x9s) from the HU.

6x9s stay as i am in love with the kevlars
The front coax will have to find themselves a new owner or might just keep them in standby. Since the sub is not in line right now, will currently use the amp to power all 4 speakers. Results hopefully should be good...

[tsk13]

Originally Posted by gunner fan

Considering following (prices quoted by dealer also mentioned where possible)
a) JBL GTO 608C (4.8K)
b) Infinity Ref 6.5" (7.8K)
c) Velocity vc172 / vpc172 <confused> (5.5K)
d) Illusion Electra 6.1 (should be roughly 6K thou he was putting me off them saying its sourced from US and *** is not good)
e) Bull cs650.75 (should be < 6K - again he was putting me off saying its manufactured in India and not that good)
f) Boston 60 (not idea on pricing - I was again given the US doody)


2. Amps to drive the comps and the rears (budget 6 tops 7 K again) - life here is probably simpler (maybe because of budget constraints). The following are the pieces I have shortlisted -
a) Kenwood 8401 (between 5 and 6K)
b) Blau GTA4 MK II (~6K) - i was told to avoid this as it is quite a 'weak' amp (surprised)
c) Local (read Glider) amplifiers (~7K for 1400 W) - dnt really trust the local stuff

Sam, I ain't a Guru but one like you, learning from Gurus here.

Kenwood 8401 is hard to find, it's been more than half a year since it was discontinued. I'm having a JBL S644 4 channel Amp, which drives JBL GT5-S12 1200W sub. The Amp costed me around 5.5k (without B&W) and I'm delighted with its performace. I can atleast recommend this amplifier.

Bull and Illusion, even though manufactured outside India have been well received by BHPians and recommended too. By the way, may we know the dealer who gives such remarks. All other Components suggested are not manufactured in India hence, fall in the same category as Bull and Illusion and the same story shall go for them too.

Please go for good quality wiring, JBL fakes in orange packs (Pack material is the same as that used for waterproofing school bags) are quite common in Delhi. Please take an opinion from guys at Gyro and Driven, as these have been recommended on T-BHP. Your expenditure will exceed your budget as it was in my case, but yes I got quality stuff.

All the Best.

[gunner fan]

Thanks man (cannot get your name from your handle)

Originally Posted by tsk13

Sam, I ain't a Guru but one like you, learning from Gurus here.

Kenwood 8401 is hard to find, it's been more than half a year since it was discontinued. I'm having a JBL S644 4 channel Amp, which drives JBL GT5-S12 1200W sub. The Amp costed me around 5.5k (without B&W) and I'm delighted with its performace. I can atleast recommend this amplifier.

The Kenwood 8401 idea is on the back burner now. A local round to the markets had me hearing about Dynamo (1400 W) and Prosound (700W) Amps (not sure abt them). I'm inching towards either the Blaupunkt GTA 4 MKII Special (5.5K with B&W) or the baby you are running - JBL S644 (6K with B&W). Which of the two would be a better buy - no idea help

Originally Posted by tsk13

Bull and Illusion, even though manufactured outside India have been well received by BHPians and recommended too. By the way, may we know the dealer who gives such remarks. All other Components suggested are not manufactured in India hence, fall in the same category as Bull and Illusion and the same story shall go for them too.

Gurgaon seems to be flooded with such dealers wanting to push through the stuff they house. Nothing wrong in doing so, but one should not mid lead a customer

Got a quote on Infinity References 6020 for 5.5K (without B&W and scope for some bearish movement in price) and Blaupunkt Velocity 170.4 for 4K (with B&W) - is it a good price???

Originally Posted by tsk13

Please go for good quality wiring, JBL fakes in orange packs (Pack material is the same as that used for waterproofing school bags) are quite common in Delhi. Please take an opinion from guys at Gyro and Driven, as these have been recommended on T-BHP. Your expenditure will exceed your budget as it was in my case, but yes I got quality stuff.

All the Best.

There is a JBL wiring kit (RCA and power) available (1700 - 2K) which i have seem with a number of installers. Not sure if its the fake one you are referring to.

Visit to Gyro and Driven is definitely slated within the next week or so. Would want to audition options before zeroing in on things. In case you know who to connect with at both places, pls PM me come contact details.

Cheers
Iceaholic in the making

[tsk13]

Originally Posted by gunner fan

Thanks man (cannot get your name from your handle)

It's Tanveer Singh.

The Kenwood 8401 idea is on the back burner now. A local round to the markets had me hearing about Dynamo (1400 W) and Prosound (700W) Amps (not sure abt them). I'm inching towards either the Blaupunkt GTA 4 MKII Special (5.5K with B&W) or the baby you are running - JBL S644 (6K with B&W). Which of the two would be a better buy - no idea help

JBL S644 with B&W is quite cheap, regarding comparison others will be having a better idea.

There is a JBL wiring kit (RCA and power) available (1700 - 2K) which i have seem with a number of installers. Not sure if its the fake one you are referring to.

The fake one: http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/produc...tml#post128168 (Fake Wiring kit)

Sam Kapasi's another post comparing fake with original: http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/produc...tml#post346736 (Fake Wiring kit)

Fake Kicker: http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/produc...tml#post582526 (Fake Wiring kit)

More JBL Fakes: http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/produc...ml#post1026151 (Fake Wiring kit)

The ORIGINAL one available nowadays in the market, the same I'm using and got it for 1500 bucks in August '09 from Karol Bagh. Link : http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/produc...ml#post1098453 (Fake Wiring kit)

All links are from the same thread as you may have seen, please read the entire thread.

Visit to Gyro and Driven is definitely slated within the next week or so. Would want to audition options before zeroing in on things. In case you know who to connect with at both places, pls PM me come contact details.

At Gyro, we have m4ugr8 (Manan) and noidaboy (Sanyam) and Driven is Mr. Rana, he's not on the forum. PM m4ugr8 or noidaboy for further details.

Iceaholic in the making

All the Best.

[sonirohit]

Originally Posted by tsk13

The fake one: http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/produc...tml#post128168 (Fake Wiring kit)

Sam Kapasi's another post comparing fake with original: http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/produc...tml#post346736 (Fake Wiring kit)

Fake Kicker: http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/produc...tml#post582526 (Fake Wiring kit)

More JBL Fakes: http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/produc...ml#post1026151 (Fake Wiring kit)

The ORIGINAL one available nowadays in the market, the same I'm using and got it for 1500 bucks in August '09 from Karol Bagh. Link : http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/produc...ml#post1098453 (Fake Wiring kit)

All links are from the same thread as you may have seen, please read the entire thread.


At Gyro, we have m4ugr8 (Manan) and noidaboy (Sanyam) and Driven is Mr. Rana, he's not on the forum. PM m4ugr8 or noidaboy for further details.



All the Best.

Regarding wiring - I suggest you go for Finolex/Havells for the power cable and have custom made RCA cables. They won't cost any less than the Kits - but atleast you will have peace of mind that they are of good quality....

[streetrage911]

Originally Posted by sonirohit

Regarding wiring - I suggest you go for Finolex/Havells for the power cable and have custom made RCA cables. They won't cost any less than the Kits - but atleast you will have peace of mind that they are of good quality....

Hey rohit,

Please provide the prices of the wiring products and exact product names if you could? Because while talking with the dealers they want to know the product names and the model no. I am also in the process of ICE upgrade for my baleno and in need of some serious advice about the wiring kit to be used for the AMP.

thanks,

[sonirohit]

Originally Posted by streetrage911

Hey rohit,

Please provide the prices of the wiring products and exact product names if you could? Because while talking with the dealers they want to know the product names and the model no. I am also in the process of ICE upgrade for my baleno and in need of some serious advice about the wiring kit to be used for the AMP.

thanks,

@streetrage - The idea is to figure out which amp you are running and calculating it's peak power. Then divide by 12 (Voltage of your Car's batt) to get the Peak Current that will be carried by the wires. As a general rule If you plan to run 1 single 4 Ch sub - a 8 GA or 4 GA wiring should be good enough. 8 GA = 10 sq mm, 4 GA = 25 sq mm.
Go to the electrical shops and try getting a "Single Core- Multi Strand" wire of the above sizes - Havells/Finolex/L&T etc are good choices for power cable. I paid 65 Rs/Mtr for Havells. Mind it that these are not intended for Automotive use and will be quite inflexible compared to kicker wires/other automotive power cables.

You would need to buy a fuse holder separately if you plan to use these wires.

Next is to buy a good quality Speaker cable - belden is one brand you can get

Next you need to figure out which RCA Cables to use - these are one of the most important components of your ICE - so don't cut corners here. a Decent option is to buy it from MX electronics - MDR Electronics - MX Electronics - Home Theater Cables & Connectors - Computers & Laptop Accessories - Pro Audio / Studio Audio Cables & Connectors - Audio Video Components & Accessories - Fiber Optic Component & Accessories - Cable TV Component & Ac

[gunner fan]

Originally Posted by tsk13

It's Tanveer Singh.


JBL S644 with B&W is quite cheap, regarding comparison others will be having a better idea.

Scouting the market, this was the best deal availale. Gurus help with your views on JBL S644 vs Blau GT4 MKII vs Kenwood 8401 (not really inclined)

Originally Posted by tsk13

The fake one: http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/produc...tml#post128168 (Fake Wiring kit)

Sam Kapasi's another post comparing fake with original: http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/produc...tml#post346736 (Fake Wiring kit)

Fake Kicker: http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/produc...tml#post582526 (Fake Wiring kit)

More JBL Fakes: http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/produc...ml#post1026151 (Fake Wiring kit)

The ORIGINAL one available nowadays in the market, the same I'm using and got it for 1500 bucks in August '09 from Karol Bagh. Link : http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/produc...ml#post1098453 (Fake Wiring kit)

All links are from the same thread as you may have seen, please read the entire thread.

Many thanks Tanveer, this definitely helps noobies (to ICE) like me to keep an eye out for raw deals.
Mods - can we start a sticky thread on fakes? perfect read for noobies (and at times veterans) wanting to ICE their rides!

Originally Posted by tsk13

At Gyro, we have m4ugr8 (Manan) and noidaboy (Sanyam) and Driven is Mr. Rana, he's not on the forum. PM m4ugr8 or noidaboy for further details.



All the Best.

Will PM them and plan a visit (smile)

Originally Posted by sonirohit

@streetrage - The idea is to figure out which amp you are running and calculating it's peak power. Then divide by 12 (Voltage of your Car's batt) to get the Peak Current that will be carried by the wires. As a general rule If you plan to run 1 single 4 Ch sub - a 8 GA or 4 GA wiring should be good enough. 8 GA = 10 sq mm, 4 GA = 25 sq mm.
Go to the electrical shops and try getting a "Single Core- Multi Strand" wire of the above sizes - Havells/Finolex/L&T etc are good choices for power cable. I paid 65 Rs/Mtr for Havells. Mind it that these are not intended for Automotive use and will be quite inflexible compared to kicker wires/other automotive power cables.

You would need to buy a fuse holder separately if you plan to use these wires.

Next is to buy a good quality Speaker cable - belden is one brand you can get

Next you need to figure out which RCA Cables to use - these are one of the most important components of your ICE - so don't cut corners here. a Decent option is to buy it from MX electronics - MDR Electronics - MX Electronics - Home Theater Cables & Connectors - Computers & Laptop Accessories - Pro Audio / Studio Audio Cables & Connectors - Audio Video Components & Accessories - Fiber Optic Component & Accessories - Cable TV Component & Ac

Thanks Rohit. I'm still a noobie to ICEing and would prefer to go to a reputed installer atleast the first time. Next ugrades (whenever they are planned) will be a more hands on activity

[streetrage911]

Originally Posted by sonirohit

@streetrage - The idea is to figure out which amp you are running and calculating it's peak power.

WoW, that was super explanatory. Thanks Rohit.

[sonirohit]

Originally Posted by streetrage911

WoW, that was super explanatory. Thanks Rohit.

I guess would have confused gunner - I think the best option for him is to get a good quality Wiring Kit Kicker/Scosche and have it installed by a good installer.

[gunner fan]

Originally Posted by sonirohit

I guess would have confused gunner - I think the best option for him is to get a good quality Wiring Kit Kicker/Scosche and have it installed by a good installer.

haha. rohit its not all about getting confused, but as i mentioned before, this ICEing project, i'll let the installers dirty their hands. next time around (next upgrade) it'll be more hands on

as far as the current upgrade project goes, for the components the final showdown would be between the bull and the reference (6020). i'll prefer a laid back setup, thus will decide once i've heard both of them.

now the conundrum lies with picking the VFM amp. gurus please advice on one of the following 3 - jbl s644, blaupunkt mk II spl and the kenny 845. need help

also in case i may have missed any entry levelamp - pls do let me know.

[nitinralli]

Originally Posted by gunner fan

haha. rohit its not all about getting confused, but as i mentioned before, this ICEing project, i'll let the installers dirty their hands. next time around (next upgrade) it'll be more hands on

as far as the current upgrade project goes, for the components the final showdown would be between the bull and the reference (6020). i'll prefer a laid back setup, thus will decide once i've heard both of them.

now the conundrum lies with picking the VFM amp. gurus please advice on one of the following 3 - jbl s644, blaupunkt mk II spl and the kenny 845. need help

also in case i may have missed any entry levelamp - pls do let me know.

Well for comps, i would sugest Bull comps over Reference as you want laidback music.
For the amp, it would be like this:
1. Kenny
2. JBL
3.Blaup
See in which you get the best deal. Call up Rana at Driven and get the quote for these.