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Old 23rd July 2012, 21:30   #301
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Default Re: Wheel Alignment/Balancing : Madhus Enterprises (Langford rd, Bangalore)

On a Swift, only the front toe is adjustable. Rear Camber is not adjustable. It changes because the readings are measured for all wheels together. So, if the front changes(which it will after adjustment), the rear reading changes too as the reference point has changed.

If you meet me sometime, ask me to explain. I can do a better job of explaining this in person!
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Old 23rd July 2012, 22:42   #302
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaggu View Post
When i went in itself, i had told the familiar face aka the technician attending the car, that there seems to be some outter wear in the front LT wheel.
I too run on 195/65 R14 tyres on my VDi. Even I am observing some tyre wear on the front left. I checked it with a depth meter and it showed that both the left tyres were having a depth of 2.4 mm at the outer edge whereas the right side tyres were having 1 mm more (around 3.5 mm). Will need to get this checked sometime. My alignment readings were OK all the time and I too used to get the alignment done at Madhu's. Is this a common phenomenon for swifts with 195 size tyres?
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Old 24th July 2012, 12:27   #303
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Default Re: Wheel Alignment/Balancing : Madhus Enterprises (Langford rd, Bangalore)

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Originally Posted by mtnrajdeep View Post
I too run on 195/65 R14 tyres on my VDi. Even I am observing some tyre wear on the front left. I checked it with a depth meter and it showed that both the left tyres were having a depth of 2.4 mm at the outer edge whereas the right side tyres were having 1 mm more (around 3.5 mm). Will need to get this checked sometime. My alignment readings were OK all the time and I too used to get the alignment done at Madhu's. Is this a common phenomenon for swifts with 195 size tyres?
Uneven tyre wear could be due to many reasons. Alignment is one of the most common. when you say Alignment readings were ok, which readings in specific are you referring to? Toe? Camber? If you post the pics of the reports here, it will be helpful.
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Old 24th July 2012, 23:12   #304
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Default Re: Wheel Alignment/Balancing : Madhus Enterprises (Langford rd, Bangalore)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nikhilb2008 View Post
Uneven tyre wear could be due to many reasons. Alignment is one of the most common. when you say Alignment readings were ok, which readings in specific are you referring to? Toe? Camber? If you post the pics of the reports here, it will be helpful.
Here are the last 2 reports. The last alignment was on 20th Jan. The car has run about 3000km from then. As you can see, I am pretty regular in getting the alignment done but still there is uneven wear on the outer edge of the left side tyres.

The alignment report in October 2011
Wheel Alignment/Balancing : Madhus Enterprises (Langford rd, Bangalore)-snc00148.jpg

The alignment report in Jan 2012
Wheel Alignment/Balancing : Madhus Enterprises (Langford rd, Bangalore)-snc00149.jpg
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Old 25th July 2012, 18:55   #305
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Default Re: Wheel Alignment/Balancing : Madhus Enterprises (Langford rd, Bangalore)

The rear toe needs to be fixed. Just because it is at the rear doesnt mean only the rear tyres are affected. The front tyres also get affected.

The rear toe could be the reason for uneven tyre wear. Also, if rotation has been done, the rear left and front left tyre could have done duty on the rear of the car because of which they both may have worn unevenly.
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Old 25th July 2012, 19:07   #306
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Default Re: Wheel Alignment/Balancing : Madhus Enterprises (Langford rd, Bangalore)

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Originally Posted by Nikhilb2008 View Post
The rear toe needs to be fixed. Just because it is at the rear doesnt mean only the rear tyres are affected. The front tyres also get affected.
How is it usually fixed? During Alignment?
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Old 25th July 2012, 19:11   #307
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Default Re: Wheel Alignment/Balancing : Madhus Enterprises (Langford rd, Bangalore)

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Originally Posted by mtnrajdeep View Post
How is it usually fixed? During Alignment?
No. It has to be fixed at the service centre. The rear toe on most cars including Swift are unadjustable. So, the service centre guys will have to do a bit of work to fix it. But that is their job. they may charge you extra, but insist and get the work done.
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Old 25th July 2012, 19:17   #308
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Default Re: Wheel Alignment/Balancing : Madhus Enterprises (Langford rd, Bangalore)

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Originally Posted by Nikhilb2008 View Post
No. It has to be fixed at the service centre. The rear toe on most cars including Swift are unadjustable. So, the service centre guys will have to do a bit of work to fix it. But that is their job. they may charge you extra, but insist and get the work done.
Thanks Nikhil. I was not aware of this. However, it would be nice if someone at Madhu's tells the customer that there is such a problem and that the service center visit would fix it. As you can see, I had no idea and hence no possibility of understanding that such an issue existed.
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Old 26th July 2012, 09:32   #309
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Default Re: Wheel Alignment/Balancing : Madhus Enterprises (Langford rd, Bangalore)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nikhilb2008 View Post
No. It has to be fixed at the service centre. The rear toe on most cars including Swift are unadjustable. So, the service centre guys will have to do a bit of work to fix it. But that is their job. they may charge you extra, but insist and get the work done.
Thanks Nikhil for this information. Even I am facing the same issue in my Dzire and will get it done from MASS during my next service. As mentioned by mtnrajdeep it would be great if someone from Madhu's can advise customers on this. My last two alignment report shows Rear Axle Toe in Red (0 18' - June 2012, 0 09' - Feb 2012 ).
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Old 26th July 2012, 14:05   #310
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Default Re: Wheel Alignment/Balancing : Madhus Enterprises (Langford rd, Bangalore)

Quote:
Originally Posted by mtnrajdeep View Post
Thanks Nikhil. I was not aware of this. However, it would be nice if someone at Madhu's tells the customer that there is such a problem and that the service center visit would fix it. As you can see, I had no idea and hence no possibility of understanding that such an issue existed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by arun_josie View Post
Thanks Nikhil for this information. Even I am facing the same issue in my Dzire and will get it done from MASS during my next service. As mentioned by mtnrajdeep it would be great if someone from Madhu's can advise customers on this. My last two alignment report shows Rear Axle Toe in Red (0 18' - June 2012, 0 09' - Feb 2012 ).
You both are right. Normally, our service managers do tell the customers about these issues. But it seems they are getting too lazy.

Thank you for the feedback. Will take care of it.
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Old 27th July 2012, 15:15   #311
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Default Re: Wheel Alignment/Balancing : Madhus Enterprises (Langford rd, Bangalore)

Quote:
Originally Posted by arun_josie View Post
Thanks Nikhil for this information. Even I am facing the same issue in my Dzire and will get it done from MASS during my next service. As mentioned by mtnrajdeep it would be great if someone from Madhu's can advise customers on this. My last two alignment report shows Rear Axle Toe in Red (0 18' - June 2012, 0 09' - Feb 2012 ).
@arun_josie: Please do let me know on how this was fixed. I am neck deep in studies now and do not have the time to follow it up ASAP. Planning to switch the right side tyres to the left and run for some time as my daily running is very less.
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Old 27th July 2012, 23:40   #312
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Default Re: Wheel Alignment/Balancing : Madhus Enterprises (Langford rd, Bangalore)

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Originally Posted by mtnrajdeep View Post
@arun_josie: Please do let me know on how this was fixed. I am neck deep in studies now and do not have the time to follow it up ASAP. Planning to switch the right side tyres to the left and run for some time as my daily running is very less.
I am yet to fix it, will visit the MASS in a week or two to fix this issue. I will keep you updated.
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Old 3rd August 2012, 17:31   #313
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Default Re: Wheel Alignment/Balancing : Madhus Enterprises (Langford rd, Bangalore)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nikhilb2008 View Post
You both are right. Normally, our service managers do tell the customers about these issues. But it seems they are getting too lazy.

Thank you for the feedback. Will take care of it.
Nikhil, I could see a thick strip of line formed in the outer edge of the tyre, is this something due to the rear toe issue OR something else OR can this be ignored?

Rear Left Tyre

Wheel Alignment/Balancing : Madhus Enterprises (Langford rd, Bangalore)-rl2.jpg

Rear Right Tyre

Wheel Alignment/Balancing : Madhus Enterprises (Langford rd, Bangalore)-rr.jpg

Last edited by arun_josie : 3rd August 2012 at 17:32.
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Old 6th August 2012, 11:38   #314
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Default Re: Wheel Alignment/Balancing : Madhus Enterprises (Langford rd, Bangalore)

arun_josie and mtnrajdeep, I'm facing the exact same issue. Outer edge of one of my tyres is completely worn out. When wheel rotation was done the last time, I unfortunately did not observe where the damaged tyre originally was. But as Nikhil said, it probably doesn't matter because a wrong reading at one end can affect the others.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nikhilb2008 View Post
No. It has to be fixed at the service centre. The rear toe on most cars including Swift are unadjustable. So, the service centre guys will have to do a bit of work to fix it. But that is their job. they may charge you extra, but insist and get the work done.
Hi Nikhil, can you elaborate on what exactly is the work that needs to be done, so that we are more aware when we approach the service center. Does it involve some adjustments, or replacement of parts? And I guess this might be expensive too?

I also had a basic question: If all values at all wheel points are in green, and tyre rotation is done at every 5000 kms, can it be assumed that tyre wear will be even? Or are there some values that are not captured by the wheel alignment report? Thanks!
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Old 8th August 2012, 10:57   #315
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Default Re: Wheel Alignment/Balancing : Madhus Enterprises (Langford rd, Bangalore)

Guys,

My dad helped me out with this and I shall be copy pasting his mail here.

It answers almost all your queries.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ravibm


Please start to understand that Alignment is only one of the parameters that will affect the tyre wear.

Alignment reading being all green generally means there will not be any wear and tear due to misalignment. But this does not mean it is immune to the rest of the factors. Example Just low inflation or High inflation can cause the tyre to wear on the edges which has nothing to do with Wheel Alignment.

Rear Wheels or front wheels do need to be within in the Manufacturer's specifications to get an understanding that this is what it was designed to. In this, we also need to take care of the Cross camber or Cross Caster which means the difference between left and right readings. This also should be within tolerance.

Front Toe readings should be read as " Front Total Toe" as a very important spec. Individual toe may be out but Total has to be correct. If total toe is out of spec it will cause tires to scrub and wear out faster.

Rear Toe readings are very important to understand the Thrust Line or Thrust Angle of the vehicle which will decide how the front toe will be set. Here the individual toe of the rear wheels are measured and the Thrust angle is arrived as the difference betweent he left and right toe readings of the Rear wheels

No single complaint can be diagnoised in a very simple way. You need to take many factors and then come to a conclusion as to the reason for the complaint. It can be one issue or multiple issues in a car. Alignment is one issue, but there are many other issues like, Strut, Bearings, bushes, tie rod ends, Ball joints, Tyre inflation, broken or damaged parts etc.
I would conclude it the following way.

If you are a doctor and want to diagnose a patient who comes with a cold and fever, what do you do?

He can be having the cold due to congestion in his chest. He can be having a fever due to this or he many have other infection like a cough or throat infection. We cannot treat all of them the same way. For cold and congestion you have different medicine and for Throat infection you have different medicene.
You need to treat your car like a human body and then come to a final conclusion.

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PeralJam ---- The rear toe is usually done through adjustments at the service centre but could also involve replacement of some parts.

It is not that expensive. Compared to a regular alignment at a tyre showroom like ours, it will be more expensive but they have the required expertise and tools and they may charge you around 1000/- for a total alignment. Being Maruti, it might be even lesser than that.
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