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Old 27th June 2013, 12:59   #316
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Default Re: ARTICLE: How to buy a *USED* Car in India

A friend of mine is selling his Palio 1.6 I'm interested in picking it up. Car is located in Mangalore and I live in Bangalore. This will be the first purchase I'll be conducting all by myself. So tell me what all should I check for in the car as well as will there be any taxes to be paid if I move it to Bangalore?
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Old 2nd July 2013, 16:14   #317
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Default Re: ARTICLE: How to buy a *USED* Car in India

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Originally Posted by creative420 View Post
A friend of mine is selling his Palio 1.6 I'm interested in picking it up. Car is located in Mangalore?
Just out of curiosity, what sort of price is the car being transacted at?
Am wondering if the Palio is actually supported with spares by the OEM considering that there are enough horror stories about the newer Fiat car models.
Hope you are pleasantly surprised in your experience with Fiat.
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Old 5th July 2013, 23:54   #318
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Default Precautions when buying / selling cars via a Dealer

Ever since I was exposed to the used car market in my college days, I have been going around checking cars without thought of buying.
However, one day a few years back, I upgraded from my trusty Santro to my fiesta. This was my first experience as a buyer with a dealer, and although I got a very good deal, I came to understand what all I should have checked by experience. It took me almost a year to bring everything in the car to a reliable condition, so that it was worthy of all the trips I have taken on it so far. I knew faults were hidden, and meters tampered, but unfortunately , i learned too late.

However, since that buy, I have picked up quite a bit, and unfortunately my mind just cannot get past the VFM of a good pre-owned vehicle.

Why you should never buy from a dealer..

1. Odo Tampering : This is the standard first piece of action on the charts of all used car dealers. there wil not be even ONE car that will not be clocked back in a dealer's lot. Seven/ eight year old diesels with under a lac of kilometres on the odo may look tempting at first sight.
Too good to be true? It ALWAYS is, and will ALWAYS be so. Get the exercise, and run.
This is a stupid scam, and one that can detected with just a couple of phone calls.
Done be hesitant. Even if the dealer says the car service records are unavailable, it HAS to have visited the A.S.S. at some point in its life. And these records are available. Call around, the service centres are willing to help. Most have centralized records, so all it will take is one call.


2. Touch-ups : These guys are EXTREMELY good with touch ups that will cost about 1/20th of a proper fixup paint job, and will practically peel-off the second money has changed hands.

Dont glance at the paint. Get close enough, and things will be apparent.

3. Wash: The engine bay will be IMMACULATE, shiny even. Why?
How else do you get rid of coolant and oil stains? The underside will spotless too. How else do you get rid of grime stuck to oil leaks?

Too clean? Walk.

4. Fixed route: These guys have charted routes, where you will not get a feel for the suspension, or the grunt of the engine, and will be adamant for you to stick to the same. The worse the shape of the car, the more insistent they will be to stick the route.

Too adamant, too risky.
Exercise...

5. Phonoholic Owner : The supposed owner is ONLY available on the phone. This typically happens when you're negotiating on the price. Its always a dealer's crony, pretending to negotiate.

Poor fellow, he cant even stand to face the person who'll be taking home his baby.....awww.
Go!


Please put in anything else you guys have encountered.

The point is, while all this may seem ways to make a quick deal, imagine a component that was supposed to be replaced at the 1L mark, and you happily buy the car, at 80k, and run it for an additional 20k.
What if the part fails on the drive to Leh?

What if the glued up hose blows in the middle of a jam on a 40 degree day?

What if you have to spend another 30k on a paintjob, which could very well wipe out the smile you got when you got a "fantastic deal"?

Why you shouldnt sell to a dealer?

They clutter the market
You may have an honest car, but your car will be violated, and put up for sale. I will blame the previous owner for any faults.
More and more people head towards dealers as you can get a quicker sale.
I beg you to not do that. There are good online portals where you can get in touch with direct buyers. It may take a bit longer, but everyone appreciates an honest deal.

Would you rather buy an honestly priced 1L car, rather than one carrying an unusually low figure, and priced higher?

Well, if you have been burnt before, you will go for the former.
Dont make your own mistakes in this case.You really do not need to.


A word of warning against trading portals and specialized used car dealers.

Cartrade and such
: Highly incompetent.
They are basically just a listing of dealer stock. The supposed checks are the BIGGEST jokes in the automotive industry. They will NOT verify the history of the vehicle. Any guarantee they provide on the condition and meters on the car is worthless.

OLX/quikr etc: stay away from dealer listings, reasons being as enumerated above.

MFC/Carnation/other networks: They are , at the end of the day, used car dealers, and they will behave as such.

A little bit of experience here:
1. MFC : honda city clocked back by 30k+, deposit held, gotten back by Mr. Mahindra's direct intervention.
2. Cartrade : Tucsons, both clocked back almost a lac kilometres, turbo shot, owner only on phone, gearbox opened
3. Carnation : Tucson again, informed over phone that it has done 75k.Walked.
4. FND(ealer) : Fiesta(current drive) radiator and cooling coil shot, replaced/repaired after 2 weeks. tyres replaced with old ones.


Plain-jane simple advice.
Be ready to pay a premium for a good, individual-seller's car, but dont pay a false premium on dealer cars.

I request everyone to add on their own experiences and warnings.

I have put this up based on my own first hand expeiences.
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Old 6th July 2013, 01:09   #319
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Default re: Precautions when buying / selling cars via a Dealer

While you do have some very valid points, I do think that you are taking a very cynical and over generalized view on the Dealer's actions.
I do personally feel that the Indian Used Car market is still not very matured, and residual values of cars being extremely low.

From my experience (limited to Mumbai) the OVERALL Quality of Cars in the second hand market is very poor and it is almost impossible to find cars that are in decent drivable condition after 10+ years. This is not necessarily a problem caused by Dealers but by Individual owners of cars as well.

While the quality of the roads does play an effect on the conditon of the cars, the Bigger reason is perhaps the poor maintenance that people perform. Road side quick fixes, spurious spares and the "Jugaad" mentality are common place, that reduce the life of cars tremendously. I have driven cars that have done upwards of 3,00,000kms in Australia and they perform better than some of the cars on Indian Road that have done less than 60,000kms (genuine).

Finding a decent 10yr old car in Mumbai that drives well is really tough. And the same isn't restricted to low value hatcbacks and sedans. I have driven 5 - 7yr old Mercs and Bimmers and I wouldn't ever think of buying them. (direct sellers mind you). While abroad a 5yr old Merc/BMW would drive and feel like almost new.

So while we do blame Dealers for covering up flaws and problems in cars, we also need to realise and rectify people's attitude towards maintaining a car. If cars didnt have so many problems to begin with, dealers wouldn't have so much to cover up. Right?
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Old 6th July 2013, 03:41   #320
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Default re: Precautions when buying / selling cars via a Dealer

One experience that I would like to share.

I sold my 2001 M800 on some day of november 2012. This was at maruti true value jubilee hills. Cash was given on time. No issues with that but when it comes to ownership transfer, it took a huge amount of time. After selling the car, the dealer/rep does not answer calls, he keeps quoting pointless TAT for the ownership transfer. They wait for god knows how many days for the car to be bought by some one and then wait for him to change the ownership. In the meanwhile, they just keep making excuses as to why the ownership wasn't transferred and would quote a timeframe out of the blue.

In my case, It took almost 5 months for the ownership to be transferred.
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Old 6th July 2013, 05:43   #321
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Default re: Precautions when buying / selling cars via a Dealer

Its always risky buying a used vehicle, and the risk quadruples when you are buying from a Dealer, IMO the guys are not in the business because they love cars, they are there to make money, period.

There are always horror stories that abound around a used car purchase, the same thing happens when you buy new too, right now, when you are buying a car, you are riding on pure luck
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Old 6th July 2013, 06:39   #322
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Default

It's a pretty generic statement - but there do exist some used car dealers who might still be good. Yes, I agree that they might be few and far apart, but they still exist. I bought my car from one such dealer, and have seen a few good cars as well, but then again, it's a question of luck.
Given the road conditions and the driving styles, cars here tend to experience more wear and tear, but the key is finding a good car, that would mean looking a lot, and all said and done the dealer does need to make money- so cars will be a little more expensive as opposed to the open market.
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Old 6th July 2013, 07:40   #323
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Default re: Precautions when buying / selling cars via a Dealer

I mostly agree with the OP. It is very rare to find a car that is not tampered wrt to the Odometer. Unfortunately, even the few good dealers get a bad name because of this.

When Maruti's true value started, I was hoping this was going to be a good organized market, but unfortunately, they are so expensive that it no more make sense to buy a used car.
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Old 6th July 2013, 08:00   #324
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Default re: Precautions when buying / selling cars via a Dealer

I did buy my Marina through a mechanic who had become a friend over the years. The car had done 94k on the odo. Since I trusted this guy, I asked him if the timing belt and the clutch were replaced. He said yes. 20k kms later the timing belt exploded in my face leaving me stranded in the middle of nowhere and the car was towed back around 60 kms. Left me with a 40k bill.

If he had told me he didn't know, I would have still bought the car and asked him to replace the timing belt. What should have been a 3-4 figure job, ended up with a bill in five figures. Needless to say, I wouldn't go down the road again, unless it is for a MM550 NGCS for which I would pay for the chassis and body.

On that note, I sold my Indica which had done 1.65L kms for 2.2L direct to a buyer. I take pride in my cars and strongly believe in VFM. The person who bought it was happy that the deal was good. I had asked for 2.25 and got 2.2L. I definitely would be buying or selling direct. No more dealers for me.

Last edited by discoverwild : 6th July 2013 at 08:03. Reason: Addition
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Old 6th July 2013, 08:34   #325
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Default re: Precautions when buying / selling cars via a Dealer

Yes. There is no denying about the dealers or mechanics. The dealers manipulate the documents. One of my friend's relative named 'X' was buying a used vehicle and the dealer said 'X' would be the 3rd owner. After a month, 'X' came to know that they were the 4th owner. The dealer had removed the photograph of 2nd owner in the RC book which blinded them completely. Luckily the vehicle is in good condition.

For me, I had a bitter yet 'managable' experience with True value. When I found out that the air filter housing, AC condenser and few other components were dangling in a bad state, I requested the dealer to fix it. They simply returned the car with a water wash and few tags tied up here and there saying all is well. Frustrated to the core, I wrote an email to Maruti directly to all heads including few guys at Suzuki and I received a call from the dealer. They took the car in and delivered it back the next day with all parts replaced including the Baleno monogram. Thanks to god!!!

My opinion/suggestion:
A pre-owned vehicle will only be purchased by people who cannot/will not buy a new car for various reasons. A pre-owned vehicle will always have its own drawbacks even at a premium. Many times these drawbacks will not even be known to the dealer. How many dealers can talk about cars or its mechanism or even its basic troubleshooting? People who are looking to purchase a pre-owned vehicle should have their own check list based on their preference. If the vehicle satisfies those in the list, go for the buy. We should always be prepared to spend some bucks (for replacing belts, fluid replacement, AC service, new brake shoes or something like that). We need to ride the car for a month by which we understand the vehicle better and then begin spending wherever necessary. Then we can work on it to make it a reliable ride which is of course time consuming maybe 2-3months.

Considering all the risks involved, I somehow believe that if we have the right 'knowledge' and great negotiating we can procure a good pre-owned car/bike and make it more reliable/dependable.

Last edited by petrolhead_chn : 6th July 2013 at 08:56. Reason: Addition
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Old 6th July 2013, 08:39   #326
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Default re: Precautions when buying / selling cars via a Dealer

You cant trust these guys. My friend bought his used car from this place behind Koramangala BDA complex few years back. The dealer whose name was Imran had this full 'setup'.
He had his crony posing as seller and negotiating over phone. They dont budge on the price preferring to call you later that the 'seller has come down on price, are you interested?'.
Imagine, he even had a competing buyer physically present there who 'wants the car', just to put pressure. It was total drama.

Of course the odo was tampered with, goes without saying. So my friend has replaced almost all the parts by now. Spare tyre was bald. Tool kit was missing. Tail light was broken which the dealer promised to replace, but back tracked on later. His promise of 4 free services was a lie.
The car was handed over but the ownership was transferred after a lot of running around, for which money had already been paid.
After cash changed hands and registration/RTO bribe charge paid, he demanded Rs 800 more saying the car was registered in 'one RTO and needs re-registration in another, so extra'. Duh! It was a nighmare, but my friend was so deep in it, he didn't have any room to wriggle out. In all, a total scam game. So beware of dealers.
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Old 6th July 2013, 09:10   #327
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Default re: Precautions when buying / selling cars via a Dealer

Somehow felt that Maruti True Value was always a better option. Yes you pay all the more premium when compared to the street vendors but for sure worth it. They are slightly negotiable and no hassles over the change in Ownership. Its like a complete One Stop Shop with these folks.
Do not know much about the other dealers but have heard Toyota to be quite competent as well. Generally avoid the street dealer unless you are searching for some old car which is no longer in production .
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Old 6th July 2013, 09:27   #328
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Default re: Precautions when buying / selling cars via a Dealer

Post deleted by the Team-BHP Support : Please do NOT post messages that add little or no informational value to the thread. We need your co-operation to maintain the quality of this forum.

Please read our rules before proceeding any further. We request you to post ONLY when you have something substantial to add to a discussion.

Last edited by GTO : 6th July 2013 at 15:35.
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Old 6th July 2013, 09:35   #329
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Default re: Precautions when buying / selling cars via a Dealer

If I were to buy a used car, I'd always stick to an individual seller. I have had quite a few terrible experiences in evaluating dealer cars. A friend was looking for a used Pajero and I saw one listed by an "individual" seller for 10L. The mileage listed was 45,000 kms. We sought the seller details and he sent us some exterior pictures on whatsapp. I insisted I wanted to see interior pics and in the excitement, the seller forgot the difference between 45,000 kms and 1,30,000 kms:

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Similarly, another friend was looking at Safaris and luckily there is a great tool to see the last known mileage of the car as listed here: Post link. (Check service history of any Tata vehicle : Online Siebel System)

I wish, manufacturers collaborate and bring together a system like Carfax USA for people who see value in buying used cars. Wouldn't it be amazing to be able to see the entire service history of cars on a web portal by just entering the VIN number? I think that would keep these unscrupulous dealers away!

Do go through this interesting thread as well: Link. (How to detect *Odometer Fraud*)
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Old 6th July 2013, 09:47   #330
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Default re: Precautions when buying / selling cars via a Dealer

Quote:
Originally Posted by mayankk View Post

Please put in anything else you guys have encountered.

Why you shouldnt sell to a dealer?

They clutter the market
You may have an honest car, but your car will be violated, and put up for sale. I will blame the previous owner for any faults.
More and more people head towards dealers as you can get a quicker sale.
I beg you to not do that. There are good online portals where you can get in touch with direct buyers. It may take a bit longer, but everyone appreciates an honest deal.

Mayank, in February this year i had put a advertisement for My 2009 Wagon R Lxi DUO clocked 70,000 kms on OLX/Quikr asking for 2.2L(Negotiable). 70% of calls received were from Dealers. 3 people called me saying since your car is Mumbai registered you need to get the NOC from the RTO in Mumbai, further each of them told me to visit a dealer in Tilak Nagar,West Delhi. They even gave me the contact details.

It was easy to make out that the 3 of the callers are people either working for the dealer at tilak nagar or they are close to him.After having a discussion with some localities i decided to go and meet the dealer. He checked the car and repeatedly kept on saying that your car is in a very good condition.It just had 1 minor dent on the rear LHS door.

He quoted 1.8 L. Again i was informed about the NOC , and the dealer tells me i will do it for you. Most of the cars parked there were not from Delhi.

I tried to negotiate , and he was willing to pay 1.9 L then and there itself, asking me to handover the keys along with all the documents and walk away

I told him give me a couple of days to decide. Next day i receive a call from some random guy, saying the dealer at tilak nagar is the best in delhi and you will not find a good deal anywhere else.

Next day a maruti dealer quoted 1.5 L,and he did not mentioned anything about the NOC.

After consulting friends and family i decided not sell the car as the i was not clear on the NOC and after receiving multiple calls from different people i was getting suspicious about the dealer .

How can a dealer get the NOC , without the owner of the car being involved?
Why did MARUTI did not inform me about the NOC?
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