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Old 28th December 2015, 14:22   #616
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Default Re: ARTICLE: How to buy a *USED* Car in India

Hello friends,

A friend recently purchased used 2012 model VOLKSWAGEN VENTO (MH02 CL 9622) from VELOCITY CAR WORLD in Andheri East on 14/12/2015, claiming that the car is fully certified by CARWALE and that the car comes with Insurance from CARWALE. Hence along with the purchase of the car he also purchased the Insurance Kit which they claimed would keep him covered. On initial test runs of the car, it appeared smooth and to be in good condition. However, this was soon proved wrong.

On 16/12/2015 he and some friends ventured out on a trip to Kerala, as that is where he belongs to. They covered a distance of nearly 1700 kms by taking regular long intervals between the trip. The average speed of the car was between 60-100km/hr and they were consciously taking regular intervals to ensure that they are alert and fresh.

On 17/12/2015 after they crossed Kottayam (post 9:30 pm), suddenly they started experiencing that the air condition of the car was not working properly and the inside of the car started getting warmer to the point that all the passengers started sweating. They switched the A/C off, and restarted it but it continued to be warm inside the car. After proceeding ahead for few kilometers the car suddenly stopped on its own.
they
They managed to park the car to a corner and kind of figured out that it has become impossible to start the car. Sensing the trouble, they immediately called Carwale toll free number and reported the incident. The team immediately helped us with getting a Volkwagen Road Side Assistant to respond to our location. This technician after inspecting the car said that there is a coolant related issue and strongly recommended the car to be towed to the nearest Volkswagen Service Center. On 18/12/2015 between 2 pm and 3 pm, the car was towed to the nearest Volkswagen Service Station in Kottayam.

As a first time car customer, and since the car is relatively new (even though it is a used car), they did not want any trouble and hence agreed that it would be a better call to take the car to an authorized service centre rather than any local service station.

He purchased the car to use on the occasion of his wedding engagement and was super excited to own a Volkswagen car but he was never prepared for the nightmare which started unfolding from 17th December night onwards.

On 21st December, he had the initial report coming in from Volkswagen service centre where he heard the rather unpleasant news that the Car Engine Head has problem and hence repairing it with genuine parts would cost me nearly INR 2 Lakh and if he pays INR 3.50 Lakh I would get a new engine with warranty from Volkswagen. The news has absolutely beaten down his morale and has defeated the whole purpose of him purchasing the car in the first place.

As per the VW dealer in Kerala, this is exactly what's wrong with the car

"As you know Volkswagen Vento bearing Reg. No MH02 CL-9622 is reported here on 18-12-15 with a complaint of starting trouble. During diagnosing we checked and found the engine coolant is boiling abnormally and engine compression was weak, the route cause for this complaint due to defective engine head gasket. For rectifying the complaint we need to replace engine head and its co-parts, so kindly give the approval for doing the job."

He is in touch with Mr. Supreet Singh from VELOCITY CAR WORLD who continues to claim that the car which they sold, doesn't have any previous bad history and none of its parts have been tampered with. He has informed that the previous service history of the car has only been with Volkswagen Autobahn Automotive in Mumbai. Further he is continuously assuring us that this issue can we well covered by CARWALE and that I need not panic.

But, CARWALE have outsourced the insurance claim to AXA, who say that they are not able to provide any help as there is some 30 day cooling period nonsense. Any suggestions as to how he should proceed?

Thank you.
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Last edited by Gannu_1 : 29th December 2015 at 19:45. Reason: Typos.
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Old 28th December 2015, 15:13   #617
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Default Re: ARTICLE: How to buy a *USED* Car in India

This came in this morning from the dealer in Kerala

The estimated cost around 1,50,000/- for overhauling the engine head. Pls found the file attached that the parts we want to replace.
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Old 28th December 2015, 18:38   #618
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Default Re: ARTICLE: How to buy a *USED* Car in India

Most insurance (car, health etc) policies do have a cooling off period for new policies, regardless of whether sourced directly from the insurer, from a second hand dealer / portal etc. It would have been a good idea to avail insurance directly from whichever insurer you have a prior relationship with, and/or from a known agent, so that something can be done to salvage the situation.

Other than that, it is caveat emptor. Did you get a qualified mechanic to inspect the vehicle before you signed the deal, or was this simply based on trusting carwale's statements?

After that, you may want to get a second opinion on the parts and replacement - because coming down from 2 lakh to 1.5 lakh is a bit strange. Is just the gasket leaking or is the engine head cracked etc?

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/techni...ad-gasket.html (How to test for a failed Engine Head Gasket) has some hints, start from there. Ideally have a mechanic that you trust or that is recommended to you look over the car along with the authorized service centre people so that you don't have to pay more than you need to.

It is not a cheap job for sure - that is one thing you can be assured of.
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Old 28th December 2015, 22:01   #619
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Default Re: ARTICLE: How to buy a *USED* Car in India

Folks,
Need a little help,Gurgaon Mahindra first choice is offering a Feb 2013 white Brio EMT run 14K for 4 lakhs. From the looks, the car looks clean and Mahindra's ready to offer the service history too, wanted to check is the price right or not,
Cheers
RD
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Old 28th December 2015, 22:10   #620
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Default Re: ARTICLE: How to buy a *USED* Car in India

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Folks,
Need a little help,Gurgaon Mahindra first choice is offering a Feb 2013 white Brio EMT run 14K for 4 lakhs. From the looks, the car looks clean and Mahindra's ready to offer the service history too, wanted to check is the price right or not,
Cheers
RD
Cartrade suggests a 3.47 - 3.83 lakh price for a 2013 S MT run for 10500 km, the asking price for which seems to be 4 lakhs. E MT is the base version so surely can come cheaper. However it varies based on the car, service history, single owner or not, any accident damage etc.

http://www.cartrade.com/buy-used-car...t/1425029.html

Definitely a good car and very low running so a decent buy if everything else checks out but you may want to negotiate a bit. Also factor in things the dealer did such as add a new battery / set of new tyres etc that you'd have to otherwise do if you bought a cheaper vehicle.
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Old 29th December 2015, 18:07   #621
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Default Re: ARTICLE: How to buy a *USED* Car in India

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Most insurance (car, health etc) policies do have a cooling off period for new policies, regardless of whether sourced directly from the insurer, from a second hand dealer / portal etc. It would have been a good idea to avail insurance directly from whichever insurer you have a prior relationship with, and/or from a known agent, so that something can be done to salvage the situation.

Other than that, it is caveat emptor. Did you get a qualified mechanic to inspect the vehicle before you signed the deal, or was this simply based on trusting carwale's statements?

After that, you may want to get a second opinion on the parts and replacement - because coming down from 2 lakh to 1.5 lakh is a bit strange. Is just the gasket leaking or is the engine head cracked etc?

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/techni...ad-gasket.html (How to test for a failed Engine Head Gasket) has some hints, start from there. Ideally have a mechanic that you trust or that is recommended to you look over the car along with the authorized service centre people so that you don't have to pay more than you need to.

It is not a cheap job for sure - that is one thing you can be assured of.
Thank you.

Sadly, he trusted carwale's promises. Yes, we too think there is something fishy in the quote, and thus decided to bring the car to Mumbai to get it checked by the same VW service station where it has been serviced all these years.
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Old 30th December 2015, 10:54   #622
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Default Re: ARTICLE: How to buy a *USED* Car in India

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Originally Posted by mayanksabharwal View Post
On 17/12/2015 after they crossed Kottayam (post 9:30 pm), suddenly they started experiencing that the air condition of the car was not working properly and the inside of the car started getting warmer to the point that all the passengers started sweating. They switched the A/C off, and restarted it but it continued to be warm inside the car. After proceeding ahead for few kilometers the car suddenly stopped on its own.
The car basically overheated, hence the air-con went off first. This is why I hate cars without temperature gauges. However, the instrument cluster should have thrown out a warning sign. Your friend probably didn't notice it.

Insurance is not in the picture here. Insurance doesn't cover mechanical failures.

Would suggest your friend to get the engine evaluated first, then rebuilt from an independent garage. Cost should be in the range of a lakh. Since he's from Mumbai, check out Sunil Shanbagh (Select Auto). Details in the Team-BHP Directory. He is slow, but a perfectionist.
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Old 30th December 2015, 14:07   #623
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Default Re: ARTICLE: How to buy a *USED* Car in India

I was wondering why don't they have an audible alarm that alerts the driver to a high coolant temperature or a low brake fluid level. The driver is focussed on the road ahead and not the alarm panel at all times. I am sure this could have saved quite a few engines getting damaged due to overheating. At least in bigger marine diesels the engine shuts down automatically on high temperature and low lubricating oil pressure. This happens after giving audio and visual alarms.
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Old 30th December 2015, 14:38   #624
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Default Re: ARTICLE: How to buy a *USED* Car in India

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Originally Posted by mayanksabharwal View Post
Hello friends,

A friend recently purchased used 2012 model VOLKSWAGEN VENTO (MH02 CL 9622) from VELOCITY CAR WORLD in Andheri East on 14/12/2015, claiming that the car is fully certified by CARWALE and that the car comes with Insurance from CARWALE.
Can you clarify the fuel? General assumption would be that the car is a TDI.

There is nothing more to "fully certified by Carwale/Cartrade" than a marketing gimmick. In fact, by certifying the cars, they try to push and sell them at prices higher than those prevalent in the market.
I think they also provide some warranty for 6 odd months, but claiming that can be a nightmare. Most manufacturers try to avoid the cost, so you can guess with Carwale.

Last edited by vinit.merchant : 30th December 2015 at 14:44.
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Old 3rd January 2016, 11:35   #625
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Default Re: ARTICLE: How to buy a *USED* Car in India

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Can you clarify the fuel? General assumption would be that the car is a TDI.
My bad.

It's 1.6 petrol.
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Old 10th January 2016, 11:52   #626
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Default Re: ARTICLE: How to buy a *USED* Car in India

Hi Bhpians,

I have come across this 2012 model Fiat Punto 90hp model with 40000kms on the clock. The car seems in good nick but for some scratches here are there which is understandable knowing the Bangalore traffic. The seller says left front door has been replaced following a minor accident. I test drove the car for around 10kms and did not find any niggles or noises but for a turbo lag below 2k rpm which eventually seems normal for a 90hp punto. Service history is not available as the owner says he had been servicing it at Bosch Service Centre Mysore.

The seller is quoting 4 lakhs as the final price. Is Punto worth that much considering it is a Fiat. I am planning to keep the car for a minimum period of 2 years and hence is worried about the long term reliability and serviec of Fiat After Sales Service.

Experts please guide me in making a decision.

Thanks,

Aravind511
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Old 10th January 2016, 19:17   #627
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Default Re: ARTICLE: How to buy a *USED* Car in India

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Service history is not available as the owner says he had been servicing it at Bosch Service Centre Mysore. The seller is quoting 4 lakhs as the final price. Is Punto worth that much considering it is a Fiat. I am planning to keep the car for a minimum period of 2 years and hence is worried about the long term reliability and serviec of Fiat After Sales Service.
Bosch is a professional outfit and not a roadside garage mechanic. They will provide detailed documentation and invoice that is just as good as the authorized service centre. Definitely ask for that.

The car is quite lightly used, hardly 10k kilometers a year. You can certainly tune the ECU a bit and see if the turbo lag can't be smoothed out - but it is possible to live with it, with a bit of practice.

I would suggest getting a trusted mechanic to evaluate the car, and also give you an estimate of how much would be needed to get it back to top condition (tires, battery might start to need replacement soon, any parts wearing out that will need replacement etc). Then bargain appropriately with the owner.

The tbhp used car price check page suggests these in bangalore - also check carwale.com etc.


2012
GRAND PUNTO
EMOTION PACK 1.3 90 HP
BANGALORE

Rs. 3.51 - Rs. 3.94 lakh
Buying from a dealer

Rs. 3.27 - Rs. 3.67 lakh
Buying privately
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Old 11th January 2016, 01:03   #628
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Default Re: ARTICLE: How to buy a *USED* Car in India

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Bosch is a professional outfit and not a roadside garage mechanic. They will provide detailed documentation and invoice that is just as good as the authorized service centre. Definitely ask for that.

The car is quite lightly used, hardly 10k kilometers a year. You can certainly tune the ECU a bit and see if the turbo lag can't be smoothed out - but it is possible to live with it, with a bit of practice.
Bosch doesn't seem to be as professional as you think when it comes maintaining data. I don't know for what reason, but they do not have a centralised database accessible by all service centres. So to get the data of this car, I will need to contact the Mysore Service Centre which I will try doing today.

3.5 lakhs seems to be a fair price but I am tempted to the car even at 4 lakhs considering the fact that I will be getting a 3.5 year old car with just under 40k ticks on the odo and equipped with all the safety features like ABS, airbags and EBD. What is pulling me back is the notorious service history of fiat in India, and the thought that within next 2 years the resale value might also take a huge hit like what has happened for the otherwise awesome fiats like the Palio and Stile.
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Old 11th January 2016, 06:57   #629
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Default Re: ARTICLE: How to buy a *USED* Car in India

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In three short months you are in a position to afford a bigger car??

If you have spare cash then prepay the nano loan first, car loans are expensive debt and they aren't worth to claim tax deductions etc like a house loan is.
Hi hserus, I took your advice seriously and checked the financial implications. What you told makes complete sense. I will close the car loan by making extra monthly payments. Because of the extra cash flow, my brain went bonkers and thought I will upgrade the car
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Old 11th January 2016, 18:19   #630
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Bosch doesn't seem to be as professional as you think when it comes maintaining data..
So - get the paperwork they would have given the car owner, and get it cross checked by a trusted mechanic who you pay to inspect the vehicle. Try to obtain service history from bosch mysore as well, of course.

As for fiat auth service center issues, there are always trusted FNGs. The car is a keeper - very reliable according to a friend who drives it, but requires careful handling and repairs are a pain (maybe because of ASS issues).
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