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Old 7th April 2015, 12:50   #301
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Default Re: Yet another lateral upgrade dilemma

Quote:
Originally Posted by jaysmokesleaves View Post
GTO - Im driving a March 2008 Safari Dicor Ex 4x4. Its just turned 7 yrs old as i write this.
Its working absolutely fine, has given me no trouble and I enjoy driving it.
However, im itching for an upgrade. It has to be another suv with 4x4 capability and be a capable tourer.

What would you suggest from the preowned market?
A Used Pajero Sports.
Fortuner does not make sense in used car market, due to ridiculous asking price on used one's.
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Old 7th April 2015, 13:07   #302
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Default Re: Yet another lateral upgrade dilemma

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Originally Posted by akshay4587 View Post
A Used Pajero Sports.
But it is hard to come across one. I was casually checking prices prior to my purchase as well and all (Toyota Fortuner) were pegged at 20+ The ones below 20 had 100k+ on odo.

Pajero SFX's were ridiculously priced too.

Because Jay's Safari didn't give any issue, new upcoming Storme might be a good change (not really an upgrade)

Else, yes, the Pajero Sport if you come across a well maintained example which is sensibly priced.
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Old 7th April 2015, 19:53   #303
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Default Swap Liva for a Linea ?

Hi Guys,

**Long post and longer questions alert**

I currently own a 2011 Etios Liva V Petrol with about 39K kms on the Odo. This was a used car purchase in 2012 end, when it had clocked about 10K odd on the odo. I purchased it for around 4L which was a great deal back then. Two years on I realized my 80% usage is on the highways which isnt exactly Liva's strength. Its definitely a awesome car in terms of reliability and practicality, but mile munching is boring and tad stress-full for the car.

Last week, I came across a Linea T-Jet 2013 with 12K kms on clock at a mouth watering price! I am getting around 3.7ish for my Liva from U-Trust and have not negotiated with them yet. I might get 5-10K more, i guess. And the Linea, lets say I will be paying about 1Lac more.

Now, the Dilemma, I don't really get stellar mileage from my Liva. But without a/c on the highways I manage around 16.xx kmpl. but with full load and a/c and with about 10-20% ghats I get only around 14.5X kmpl. In the cities I get around 10.xx-12.xx kmpl depending on traffic with or without a/c haven't seen a/c make much difference in the city.

I know T-Jet has lesser economy, but from the threads I am assuming I can squeeze out at least 14.xx kmpl with sedate driving(I have a light right foot). Forget car, I have never red-lined even my CBR or P220 :P

now the questions :

1. Are my Economy assumptions of the Linea accurate ?Can the car return 10km and 14Km in the city and highway respectively ?

2. The Liva has been Uber reliable, not even a fused bulb till now(touch wood). I know a few other Liva owners, in fact I have not heard about a breakdown in Liva circles. Toyota Breakdown stories remain an Urban legend for me atleast. Now the Fiat, well you guys know about its reliability/A.S.S issues. Is the T-Jet a troublesome car ? i cant live with niggles. I cant put up with anything out of place in my vehicles. With the Fiat, will i be spending more time in the garage than on the road ?

3. Does it make sense to trade in a Economy all purpose Hatch for a possibly trouble some fun to drive uber cool sedan at a fraction of the cost ?

4. Is 3.7L a good price for a Liva of my cars age ? I have taken excellent care of the car and its bone stock. Spanking clean right down to the nuts and bolts in the engine bay. Of course a few minor scratches exist. Tires have 30-40% Life and the battery/clutch/susp have not shown any sign of giving up soon. Both bumpers were replaced due to minor bumps. Insurance IDV is 4.1L, and yes I have made a claim to replace both the bumpers this year.

I am looking to close the deal this week, before the owner flies out of the country, please help me out guys.
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Old 7th April 2015, 20:46   #304
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Default Re: Swap Liva for a Linea ?

I wouldn't exchange any car so early in its life, that to a pristinely maintained one. I'd probably use the Liva for another 2 years at the least. After that, I'd trade it for another used car, with possibly a larger budget, which equals a larger platter to choose from

Quote:
Originally Posted by anand.shankar View Post
I currently own a 2011 Etios Liva V Petrol with about 39K kms on the Odo. This was a used car purchase in 2012 end, when it had clocked about 10K odd on the odo. I purchased it for around 4L which was a great deal back then. Two years on I realized my 80% usage is on the highways which isnt exactly Liva's strength. Its definitely a awesome car in terms of reliability and practicality, but mile munching is boring and tad stress-full for the car.
I'm really surprised that you aren't comfortable with the Livas highway manners. I found it to be very well sorted out. If you hav the 1.2 petrol, yes, it may be a little lacklustre, but it shouldn't be that much of a grouse. It's just not enthusiastic. The reliability factor really ensures peace of mind, something I wouldn't want to miss out on.

Quote:
Last week, I came across a Linea T-Jet 2013 with 12K kms on clock at a mouth watering price! I am getting around 3.7ish for my Liva from U-Trust and have not negotiated with them yet. I might get 5-10K more, i guess. And the Linea, lets say I will be paying about 1Lac more.
You mean the price of the Linea is 4.7lakh? That sounds too good to be true.

Quote:
I know T-Jet has lesser economy, but from the threads I am assuming I can squeeze out at least 14.xx kmpl with sedate driving(I have a light right foot). Forget car, I have never red-lined even my CBR or P220 :P
There is a very bleak possibility you will get respectable mileage on the Linea. It will be a big step down from the Liva. Plus, it isn't a very tempting proposition to drive a fun to drive car sedately.


Quote:
3. Does it make sense to trade in a Economy all purpose Hatch for a possibly trouble some fun to drive uber cool sedan at a fraction of the cost ?
It depends. Since you don't seem to need a sedan, stay away from them. Additional weight, large size, comparatively worse performance and handling would make me shy away from them and look at hatches instead.

Quote:
4. Is 3.7L a good price for a Liva of my cars age ? I have taken excellent care of the car and its bone stock. Spanking clean right down to the nuts and bolts in the engine bay.
It is definitely a great price. Losing just 30k after 3 years of usage is probably unheard of.
Quote:
I am looking to close the deal this week, before the owner flies out of the country, please help me out guys.
Don't do that. Buying a new car is something, buying a used car is something else. You need patience and time. Lots of it. You wouldn't want to rush into a deal and later lick your wounds. Odo tampering, not revealing major accidents, condition of the engine, you need to look out for these things. And that is often a tedious task.

So, I would keep the Liva. If you are intent on trading it in, wait for the Punto T jet, look for pre owned GT TSIs or maybe just get the Liva TRD sportivo.

Happy shopping!
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Old 7th April 2015, 22:36   #305
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Default Re: Swap Liva for a Linea ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by anand.shankar View Post

1. Are my Economy assumptions of the Linea accurate ?Can the car return 10km and 14Km in the city and highway respectively ?
If you drive with a light foot that is more than pretty accurate. I have got 15.75 kmpl overall on a 850 km trip from Pune Hinjewadi to Bangalore whitefield. The overall shown by the MID was around 16 for the same. In some sections on the way i even got 18 kmpl!

City should be around 10 too if u have a light foot. The real fun is on the highways and ghat sections! I havent seen a better car with that great handling on mountain roads at the sub 10 lac price point (the fiesta 1.6 comes real close)


Quote:
Originally Posted by anand.shankar View Post
2. The Liva has been Uber reliable, not even a fused bulb till now(touch wood). I know a few other Liva owners, in fact I have not heard about a breakdown in Liva circles. Toyota Breakdown stories remain an Urban legend for me atleast. Now the Fiat, well you guys know about its reliability/A.S.S issues. Is the T-Jet a troublesome car ? i cant live with niggles. I cant put up with anything out of place in my vehicles. With the Fiat, will i be spending more time in the garage than on the road ?
Have had the tjet for aound 1.5 years and 22000 kms. No troubles so far. (except for two accidents which has been repaired good) And I do extremely long drives most of the time. From Pune to Kerala, Pune to Blore or Kerala to Blore.

Quote:
Originally Posted by anand.shankar View Post
3. Does it make sense to trade in a Economy all purpose Hatch for a possibly trouble some fun to drive uber cool sedan at a fraction of the cost ?
Second hand tjets are rare to find. You can check the classifieds. Most of the owners dont sell because they love the vehicle. The comfort offered by the tjet on extremely long drives is second to none . Its bad road composure is pretty good too and the high ground clearance means the chance of underbody hit is very rare on bumps and bad roads.

I dont think the Liva comes any close to the comfort offered by Tjet in anyway esp - the power, the comfort , the composure at high speeds, bad road composure, the safety aspect as well. The only thing it probably gives you is the toyota reliability and the price point.

Last edited by JayKis : 7th April 2015 at 22:42.
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Old 7th April 2015, 22:37   #306
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Default Re: Swap Liva for a Linea ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Turbo_asd View Post
I wouldn't exchange any car so early in its life, that to a pristinely maintained one. I'd probably use the Liva for another 2 years at the least. After that, I'd trade it for another used car, with possibly a larger budget, which equals a larger platter to choose from
Hmm.. exactly the opinion my family has the other option is to hand this one over to my younger bro who is on the look out for a used car right now.

Quote:
I'm really surprised that you aren't comfortable with the Livas highway manners. I found it to be very well sorted out. If you hav the 1.2 petrol, yes, it may be a little lacklustre, but it shouldn't be that much of a grouse. It's just not enthusiastic. The reliability factor really ensures peace of mind, something I wouldn't want to miss out on.
Well, yes I have the 1.2 and its doesn't like it much post 120Kmph though it can be pushed to 140kmph+. The handling is very predictable and solid, I have no complaints and the Brakes + ABS is very confident. Its very well mannered and I dont have complaints there. My only issues are high noise penetration at 100+ this could be due to the tires, but not sure how much improvement Michelins or Yokos would make. An the Steering at 100+ needs constant correction, not as bad as Hyundais but I guess you get my point. Also the feeling of sitting in a ultra light car becomes very evident at Highway speeds.

Quote:
You mean the price of the Linea is 4.7lakh? That sounds too good to be true.
Yes, he had quoted around 5ish, and settled for around 4.7. He is travelling abroad and has a couple of cars in his garage. But I am taking a feedback from the FIAT service centers also if Possible from Insurance company. I can figure out if there were any obvious dings.

Quote:
There is a very bleak possibility you will get respectable mileage on the Linea. It will be a big step down from the Liva. Plus, it isn't a very tempting proposition to drive a fun to drive car sedately.


It depends. Since you don't seem to need a sedan, stay away from them. Additional weight, large size, comparatively worse performance and handling would make me shy away from them and look at hatches instead.
Quote:
It is definitely a great price. Losing just 30k after 3 years of usage is probably unheard of.
Yea, the loss is minimal I picked it up cheap as the seller was moving abroad and just wanted to do away with the car, It was during the end of 2012, so around 2 yrs and a few months.

Quote:

Don't do that. Buying a new car is something, buying a used car is something else. You need patience and time. Lots of it. You wouldn't want to rush into a deal and later lick your wounds. Odo tampering, not revealing major accidents, condition of the engine, you need to look out for these things. And that is often a tedious task.

So, I would keep the Liva. If you are intent on trading it in, wait for the Punto T jet, look for pre owned GT TSIs or maybe just get the Liva TRD sportivo.

Happy shopping!
I am taking the car out for a detailed test drive tomorrow, will probably take it to the Fiat A.S.S as well. Will update the post on more finer details like Tire condition, MID indicated Average, Accident history etc.
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Old 7th April 2015, 22:45   #307
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Default Re: Swap Liva for a Linea ?

Thats me chasing a KTM 390 up the hills of Lavasa on the Tjet!

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Old 7th April 2015, 23:23   #308
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Default Re: Swap Liva for a Linea ?

I would say you should simply go for the T-Jet. Take a proper test drive and you will be bowled over. I read somewhere on the forum that Fiat A.S.S is good in Bangalore(not sure, owners can confirm).
Since you mentioned that most of your running is now on the highways, the Liva, which is a competent city car but fails to excite on the highway, will feel bad to drive. As GTO mentioned in his T Jet review, there is more to life than kmpl. The price at which you are getting this tank is just mouth watering. I for one, would just grab this deal. If you really, really like this car then you won't mind the niggles. If you think an upgrade is necessary, then don't be fixated on the Linea. There are plenty of new and used cars out there which are FTD,and will prove to be less troublesome than the Linea. If you think that the Liva is doing just fine and there is no need for an upgrade, forget this deal and keep driving your Liva.
This has to be a decision taken right from the core of the heart. My suggestion-- go for it my friend. You will never regret your decision. You are really lucky to find a good used T Jet at a price which is actually a steal.
Keep revvin and happy shopping,
Neel

Last edited by petrolhead_neel : 7th April 2015 at 23:26.
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Old 7th April 2015, 23:37   #309
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Default

Member nkrishnap had done a similar swap- From a petrol Liva to a (diesel) Linea. May be his thread can give you some pointers on what to expect-

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/3659492-post.html

The TJet is in a different league though. I would suggest you to first make 100% sure it's a good condition vehicle and then go for it. You wouldn't repent.
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Old 8th April 2015, 03:36   #310
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Default Re: Swap Liva for a Linea ?

Thanks Guys, I am taking a detailed test drive tomorrow, as well as taking it to FIAT service center. Will Post the updates after the TD
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Old 8th April 2015, 08:38   #311
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Default Re: Swap Liva for a Linea ?

It is sure that your heart longs for the Linea T Jet and I would say that if the Linea is mechanically fine and also accident free take the plunge.
There is one more aspect which is conducive. The Liva is fetching a good price. Moreover the Linea is coming to you at a good well depreciated price.
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Old 8th April 2015, 08:48   #312
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Default Re: Swap Liva for a Linea ?

I have been driving T-Jet since 1.5 years, and I am quite happy with it. I have done close to 17k km. Can't comment about Liva, have never driven one.

I have spent about 11.5 years with Fiat cars (Palio for 10 years), and I never faced any reliability issues with the cars so far (touch wood). There was an issue where a vallet parking guy didn't realise that Palio's reverse gear should be engaged with lifting the ring up, and he damaged the gear bracket (something like that, I don't remember the part name). I had to change it. Apart from that, Palio was good for 10 years, and T-Jet is even better.

T-Jet is a wonderful car to drive. With a light foot, you can easily do 14-15 kmpl on the highway, and 10 kmpl is the norm in the city.
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Old 8th April 2015, 10:08   #313
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Default Re: Yet another lateral upgrade dilemma

Quote:
Originally Posted by kablu View Post
Thanks GTO for the suggestion and pointing the related urls. To answer you question, I am a weight training person working in IT. Got a severe back injury few years before while I was training. this coupled with the long bike commute to office seem to be the reason for back pain cropping up again.
Currently, I'm not doing any specific exercises for back pain as it just started cropping up again.
Your problem is that ur injury is being aggravated due to the bike riding.

Also all IT chaps have an issue due to the chairs not having proper lumbar support. I am seeing a lot of youngsters in my Gym also suffering from the same issues.

Give me a couple of days. I will take some photos of the exercises, some doable at the gym & some at home, and post a seperate guide.

In the meantime do the following at your gym:-
1. Determine where exactly ur back pain is- is it muscular or in the main spine area?
2. Do you get numbness or tingling in lower limbs?
3. Is you bike riding position making you hunch over the handlebars?
4. Do you have adequate lumbar support in your office chair?
5. At the gym reduce weights in exercises that are putting strain on the back or causing pain.
6. Do Bhujangasan - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bhujangasana
7. Sethu Bandhasasna is also helpful. http://www.yogajournal.com/pose/bridge-pose/

Do the above asanas to the extent possible without pain. All asanas to be hold for 30 secs atleast.
8. Do hyper-extension in hold condition. Start with 15 secs x 3 reps and go upto 1min x 3reps.
9. Once your pain subsides u can start toning the back muscles. For this u need to do 3-6 reps of hold for 10 secs.
i) Goodmorning Deadlift with bar only
ii) Upper back & Deltoids to be exercises with hold only.

Will post in detail with photos as a seperate thread.
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Old 8th April 2015, 11:32   #314
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Default Re: Swap Liva for a Linea ?

I don't have any hands on knowledge about the Linea as such, but I did do what you are planning. I had a Zen which had no issues and was a hoot to drive. But felt it tiresome on long highway drives. Happened to see a good deal on an used SX4, my heart wanted the upgrade and finally went ahead with it.

2 key things with a sedan:
  1. Definitely more comfortable than a hatch for long drive. You feel less fatigued (my personal experience and opinion). Here, considering you are comparing the Liva (not very solidly built) with the Linea (Solid and built like a tank), you will definitely feel much more comfortable. In addition since it is a TJet, will be a hoot to drive. A car that performs extremely well also helps reduce the driving fatigue.
  2. Boot Space: Innumerable instances where I have been thankful for the boot of a sedan

As mentioned earlier, the deal sounds too good to be true, if it is a genuine car and the deal is purely because the owner is in a hurry to sell it and leave, then I would suggest to go for it.

Last edited by Rajeevraj : 8th April 2015 at 11:35.
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Old 8th June 2015, 02:02   #315
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Default Re: ARTICLE: The Beauty of Lateral Upgrades (Getting MORE CAR for LESS $$$)

Dear Team-BHPians,

I am posting on this lovely forum after a long gap (though i spend a fair bit of time reading several threads regularly). I am looking for some advice from the experts on this forum on a second hand car purchase.

I used to drive an SX4 Zxi, which met with a major accident in 2013 and had to be scrapped. Since i have a Santro too and my wife was not driving around then, i decided to wait before going for another car. I think i am now ready to purchase one, and strongly believe in going for a second hand over a new vehicle. I will retain my Santro.

After looking at various adverts on the classifieds section and other websites, I am confused between two vehicles - a 2012 Skoda Rapid Ambition Plus MT diesel (used for 24,000 km, seller asking Rs. 6.9L for it) and a 2010 Toyota Corolla Altis 1.8 G petrol (used for 38,000 km, seller asking Rs. 6.5L for it). Both are in Bangalore, and both have been maintained fairly well, but from pricing tools (on this forum, Carwale, etc), it also appears the selling quotes for both are a bit above market. The Corolla nearly 75K - 1L more if these tools are accurate.

My usage is not a lot at present (approx 600-700 km per month if i do some weekend trips, lesser without) and I intend to use this car for at least 3-4 years before thinking of another change. I am hoping i can get inputs from forum members on the following -

1. Since the Altis is a segment higher, will the cost of ownership increase significantly over time? What is the general experience of forum members on maintaining their Corolla's over the years? Any major issues to watch out for? Any major expenses that typically arise? Inputs from Rapid owners on ownership costs would also help.

2. Why is the resale price of the Altis lower compared to the Rapid? Its a much more expensive car to acquire when new, and from what i've heard hugely popular world over. Is there a major red flag here?

The Altis is tempting since i am getting a segment higher car for cheaper (of course older too), but its a petrol (which i am used to). But i don't want to make a purchase and cry about the massive maintenance/upkeep costs over the years. For me, a frugal cost of ownership is a critical purchasing factor.

I didn't find much information around the Altis petrol on this forum which would help me make an informed decision, and i look forward to useful information/tips.

Thanks a ton in anticipation. I want to make a fast purchase before these cars get sold to others, and so quick responses would be highly appreciated!

Mods, please post to relevant thread if this is not the right place for this query.
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