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Old 25th April 2011, 17:47   #1
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Question Cheap ICE for an Accent (7k or so). EDIT : ICE Review ADDED!

Hi Guys,

Will try to keep it to the point. Have only had pretty basic ICE setups in all our cars. A simple HU and 2-4 speakers.

No offense meant to anyone in the comments below.

Car : Accent. Provisions: 6" in the front doors. 6" in the rear shelf, which I am told can be cut to accomodate 6"x9" speakers.

Present ICE
: None (not even the speakers which Hyundai used to provide in it's cars before)

Budget
: Now don't laugh - Approx 6k which I don't mind extending to about 8k

Setup
: Head Unit. 2 speakers (Components?) or maybe even 4 if the budget allows, which doesn't seem likely.

Usage
: The sound at front seats is important. Rear bench is irrelevant.

Head Unit
: Ipod etc connectivity not needed at all. USB connectivity needed, but compromise on this if it gives me a much better setup overall in the budget.

How I like the sound
:
- Really do NOT like sound with exaggerated Bass and Treble, which many people seem to enjoy. Putting it simply, like flat warm sound setup.
- "Thump", though welcome is not a priority, especially if it is at the cost of mid-range sound
- Not into that exaggerated "chhin chhin" treble.
- Like balanced sound, where the vocals sound good. (especially the deep vocals from the lower part of the throat - typical deep male voice vocals). Flute, the rounded sound of the Tablas or Operas are also important to me (quite an ask in that budget )

Thoughts and experience till now
Auditioned some systems at a local market. Besides others heard the recently launched JBL HU and JBL 300W speakers (GTO). Found it too harsh for my liking (too much treble and bass, with the vocals/mid-range totally lacking).

Besides Sony, most other brands don't seem to give out their demo systems to the local shops, so besides JBL only really heard Sony systems.
Sony HU - without USB was Rs.3500,
with USB model no 505 was Rs.4500

Speakers. The Alpine 6" was Rs.3500/- hence didn't seem suitable.
JBL's were available from about 2k onwards, but as mentioned above, didn't suit my taste.
Sony's 6"x9" were, well, moderate.

What I quite enjoyed in the demo setup in the shop was the Sony HU (505) with Sony components (XS-GT16212S, I presume). The components were for about 3.5k. The bass was better. The sound was a lot more "open", well segregated and with minimal distortion. The concern was that they didn't seem to have enough "fill" of sound. That they may be pretty clear sounding but may feel like a small system in a large room. This combo would cost about 8k+

The other choices was to go for 6"x9" speakers, which would give a better "fill" of sound, however may not be as clear.

Alpine HU basic model (CDE-100EUB) with USB was available for 5k+. Could not audition this.

- Should one for in for a Sony with components or for Alpine or other HU with 6x9 at the back and basic 6" in the front?
- In terms of basic entry level HU's (upto say 4-5k) how do the other brands (Sony, Pioneer, Kenwood, etc) compare to Alpine?

Hoping for some good advice, though most of the gurus here may have little experience at ICE at such a budget
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Old 25th April 2011, 18:39   #2
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Default Re: CHEAP ICE for an Accent (7k or so)- Suggestions? Experience till now.

My friend who is also searching for the new ICE, was investigating and this is what he finalized onto.

He was mentioning that JBL has come up with a new HU which only has slot for thumbdrive (no CD slot). He was mentioning the quality accodring to him was good and it costed around INR 3.5K. I was thinkiing its a good option.
Let me know if you need more info on this, I will enquire with him and get back on details of the same.
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Old 25th April 2011, 19:23   #3
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Default Re: CHEAP ICE for an Accent (7k or so)- Suggestions? Experience till now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by xingamazon View Post
My friend who is also searching for the new ICE, was investigating and this is what he finalized onto.

He was mentioning that JBL has come up with a new HU which only has slot for thumbdrive (no CD slot). He was mentioning the quality accodring to him was good and it costed around INR 3.5K. I was thinkiing its a good option.
Let me know if you need more info on this, I will enquire with him and get back on details of the same.
Yup..I support the JBL. Heard the sound quality is much better and 3 4V output, so you can always upgrade at a later point.
Not too clear on the speaker part, I always thought Polk Audio was good.
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Old 26th April 2011, 00:09   #4
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Default Re: CHEAP ICE for an Accent (7k or so)- Suggestions? Experience till now.

Thanks for the quick replies Xingy and Rosh. I did try the JBL HU which had the CD player also. Absolutely need the CD player. It was a bit too bright for my liking. The mid-range was almost missing when paired with JBL 300W (GTO?) speakers. The interface too was not really intuitive.

Is Blaupunkt still around?
How are the Polk Audio speakers priced? Are they freely available or only at specialty/high-end retailers?

How would one rate entry level HU's (with USB) between various brands?
(Sony, Kenwood, Alpine, Pioneer, JVC, any other major brand)

Last edited by Poitive : 26th April 2011 at 00:13. Reason: Missed enquiring about Polk audio speakers.
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Old 26th April 2011, 00:14   #5
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Default Re: CHEAP ICE for an Accent (7k or so)- Suggestions? Experience till now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Poitive View Post
Thanks for the quick replies Xingy and Rosh. I did try the JBL HU which had the CD player also. Absolutely need the CD player. It was a bit too bright for my liking. The mid-range was almost missing when paired with JBL 300W (GTO?) speakers. The interface too was not really intuitive.

Is Blaupunkt still around?

How would one rate entry level HU's (with USB) between various brands?
(Sony, Kenwood, Alpine, Pioneer, JVC, any other major brand)

Hi Potive, in that case my friend was mentioning that the JBL HU for having both the USB and the CD player option had cost aroun 6.6K if not 7k.
JBL would work out cheaper if you go for the USB only one. I had brought that one up as you wanted a cheap option.
anyway will ask him for details and update you
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Old 26th April 2011, 00:21   #6
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Default Re: CHEAP ICE for an Accent (7k or so)- Suggestions? Experience till now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by xingamazon View Post
Hi Potive, in that case my friend was mentioning that the JBL HU for having both the USB and the CD player option had cost aroun 6.6K if not 7k.
JBL would work out cheaper if you go for the USB only one. I had brought that one up as you wanted a cheap option.
anyway will ask him for details and update you
Thanks Xingy. I was quoted 4.5 for the JBL HU WITH CD and USB. I think it also had a provision for an SD card. Interestingly, this guy doesn't really charge extra for installation, besides the cost of parts (some 200/- or so for a connector). Just that the JBL sound is not at all to my liking. Had JBL's 6x9 in a car before, which I got replaced as I found them too bright, especially when I heard them for anything over 20-30 mins.
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Old 26th April 2011, 01:08   #7
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Default Re: CHEAP ICE for an Accent (7k or so)- Suggestions? Experience till now.

Hey positive, are you A, B, AB or O +ve ?
Or all of the above ?
See, without an amp and half decent speakers, distinguishing between mids, lows is almost impossible. For your budget, I think Sony and pioneer have HUs less than 5k with USB compatibility. It is totally up to you how you go about the rest of the set up.
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Old 26th April 2011, 01:52   #8
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Default Re: CHEAP ICE for an Accent (7k or so)- Suggestions? Experience till now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Poitive View Post

How would one rate entry level HU's (with USB) between various brands?
(Sony, Kenwood, Alpine, Pioneer, JVC, any other major brand)
Pioneer>Alpine/Kenwood>JVC>Anything else>Sony

Please dont get a Sony HU. Get a Pioneer 2390/2350 as you didn't like the JBL HU. It should be around 4k, but it is totally worth the money. For a budget of 4k left for speakers, I can recommend going in for Blaupunkt GT series 6" Coaxials which aren't too bright. They cost around 3.5k with B&W. Audition the Speakers after you get a HU installed in your car and then decide.

Cheers
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Old 27th April 2011, 00:32   #9
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Default Re: CHEAP ICE for an Accent (7k or so)- Suggestions?

Quote:
Originally Posted by esteem_lover View Post
Hey positive, are you A, B, AB or O +ve ?
Or all of the above ?
See, without an amp and half decent speakers, distinguishing between mids, lows is almost impossible. For your budget, I think Sony and pioneer have HUs less than 5k with USB compatibility. It is totally up to you how you go about the rest of the set up.
Funny! Well, not Positive. Almost was, but for an 's' (won't get crude here ;-) )

My experience has been a bit different here. Mids and lows are pretty much distinguishable. Try two brands from Harmon- JBL's and Infinity. The mids are prominently missing in the JBL's and Infinity reproduces them quite faithfully. Have finalized the system, which I'll talk about in the next post.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tusharsethi View Post
Pioneer>Alpine/Kenwood>JVC>Anything else>Sony

Please dont get a Sony HU. Get a Pioneer 2390/2350 as you didn't like the JBL HU. It should be around 4k, but it is totally worth the money. For a budget of 4k left for speakers, I can recommend going in for Blaupunkt GT series 6" Coaxials which aren't too bright. They cost around 3.5k with B&W. Audition the Speakers after you get a HU installed in your car and then decide.

Cheers
Thanks for the advice Tushar. Had almost finalized on Sony, with sony components, but finally chose something else. More details in the next post. What does B&W stand for?
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Old 27th April 2011, 01:06   #10
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(@Mods, did not add this info to the previous post, as it was about what I checked in the market and finally decided, which would seem better organized in a separate post)

Am writing this for the benefit of the others who may refer to this thread and of course to share the experience with fellows who helped me decide. Firstly, thanks for all your inputs guys.
The systems I checked out

I did end up spending a lot more time on this than I had expected.

Sony
- Got info on many systems and auditioned a few. Sony though not considered too good, did seem to offer the best speakers at that price range. Approx 3500 for components. All other components started above 5-7k. This was my reference point.

Pioneers - Heard Pioneers HU's with their speakers. Livable but not too impressive.. Components did sound good, but were out of my budget. 2390 was for 4.8k

JVC was similar. Components very good, but out of range.

Kenwood - Could not hear them.

Blaupunkt - Could not hear them. Speakers were available for about 1.9-2.4k. The specs didn't seem too good. I probably should have gone for them. Surprisingly components were available for 3.8k (seemed like very old stock he wanted to clear). Wanted to pick them up even without hearing them! Alas, they turned out to be only 5"
JBL - Heard their speakers with a JVC HU (even the dealer said that based on what I expect, a JVC HU would be a lot better than the JBL HU). Were 6x9's

Infinity - Infinity speakers with a JVC HU. Really good clear balanced sound. Pretty close to what I was looking for. Even had the fill (speakers in this case were 6x9). Out of Budget as were close to 12k. Anyone to spend about as much must check it out.

Alpine - Have experienced it quite a lot before and liked them a lot. Was discouraged by a couple of good dealers against taking the entry level HU (100 EUB) - that it was a very basic model made by Alpine only to compete with the other brands on price. Older Alpine models without USB were available for 4-4.5K (one dealer suggested they had MUCH better sound than the current 100 EUB - could not hear them).

After a lot of time spent/wasted, eventually landed at the shop from where I had made purchases many years back and remembered him being a VERY decent and honorable guy to deal with (if I remember correctly, he honored a commitment of price in which he was loosing money). The shop is called Indus Enterprises and is run by Mr. Rajesh Narang (not sure if it would be appropriate to mention his phone no on the thread/forum, as it may seem like a commercial - please let me know if it is acceptable).

The guy did seem to know his trade. Went by his recommendation and narrowed in on the Alpine 100EUB for about 5k. Checked out Alpine 6" on a make-shift demo setup. Also checked out another brand (forget the name - was something with A and was supposed to be the cheaper line of Focal Audio - it had a Focal Warranty card). Wasn't satisfied enough. Now, most guys loose interest when they find out that you don't want to take the system right away (was in the other car), but he was good enough to suggest and demonstrate the speakers in the car I was in. Eventually what he had recommended (the A brand), was what appealed to me. Surprisingly, the 6" had as much "fill" as 6x9's I had. Were probably even more punchy. He explained that it had a lot do to with the cones being deeper and hence displacing more air. Those speakers are for 2.5k

Decision made:
HU -Alpine - 100EUB
Speakers - 6" deep cone - The A Brand (will update the forum on the exact name later).
No special wiring it being used (don't think it is needed for this type of a setup) and fitting is not being charged extra.

Will be sending the car over on the next given opportunity.

Thanks guys for the suggestions. Hope the experience above helps others too.

Cheers!

---------------------------------------
PS: I think there was a section talking about recommended dealers. Will add Indus to that, once this installation is finished and I am satisfied.

Saurabh at Elegant, in the same market was another dealer who knew his job. Had I not interacted with Rajesh, chances are that I would have wanted to purchase from them.

Last edited by Poitive : 27th April 2011 at 01:26. Reason: Added info on Blaupunkt etc.
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Old 28th April 2011, 21:35   #11
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Default re: Cheap ICE for an Accent (7k or so). EDIT : ICE Review ADDED!

Congrats on your decision.

Your thread has took me in the past (somwhere around 2006 on this forum).****tan taaan naan**** There was a guy who wanted bestest of the sound in a budget of yours. I recommended him something (I think dual layered wooden tray with the ICE).. why dont you just dig up couple of my ol' threads and have a fresh look?

I'm sure our resident 'search master' aka LBM would be able to help you out on that!!

BTW, you need some 'serious' auditions.

Cheers!
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Old 28th April 2011, 21:43   #12
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Default re: Cheap ICE for an Accent (7k or so). EDIT : ICE Review ADDED!

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/ask-gu...e-setup-2.html

Check out the post no #22
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Old 29th April 2011, 17:29   #13
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Default re: Cheap ICE for an Accent (7k or so). EDIT : ICE Review ADDED!

Quote:
Originally Posted by panky12345 View Post
Congrats on your decision.

Your thread has took me in the past (somwhere around 2006 on this forum).****tan taaan naan**** There was a guy who wanted bestest of the sound in a budget of yours. I recommended him something (I think dual layered wooden tray with the ICE).. why dont you just dig up couple of my ol' threads and have a fresh look?

I'm sure our resident 'search master' aka LBM would be able to help you out on that!!

BTW, you need some 'serious' auditions.

Cheers!
@Panky, Thanks mate for the interest. I am/was just looking for a musical sounding system within a budget. Not the bestest ;-)

Checked out the thread, which talked about Chinese/Lajpat Rai Market (real "totally local") stuff. Don't expect them to be musical and balanced. The fellow wanted some 6 speakers, HU and some accessories at 7-8k.

Quote:
Originally Posted by low_bass_makker View Post
@LBM, Amazing maan (not to be read like Gurdas/Harbhajan Maan ;-) ) Thanks for the effort. It is stuff like this which makes this forum special. Appreciate it.

The HU and speakers were installed today, as per what was decided in the previous post. Only spent a few minutes in the car after that. Seem fairly balanced. It may be a bit too warm, but that may be because my ears got tuned to sharper sound from the other car (even the home system sounded a bit too warm after that).

Initial impression : Good balanced sound VFM package, with moderate fill, clarity and warmth, without being squeaky; leaving a possibility for an upgrade (front speakers - maybe components)

Will post comments on the experience of this under 7.5k system (all included) once I have spent some time and have heard varied music on it.

(@mods, please don't close the thread to accommodate that well, maybe others out there will be looking for sub 10k systems on the forum)
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Old 5th June 2011, 17:44   #14
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Default re: Cheap ICE for an Accent (7k or so). EDIT : ICE Review ADDED!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Poitive View Post
Hi Guys,

Budget : Now don't laugh - Approx 6k which I don't mind extending to about 8k

---------------------

How I like the sound
:
- Really do NOT like sound with exaggerated Bass and Treble, which many people seem to enjoy. Putting it simply, like flat warm sound setup.
- "Thump", though welcome is not a priority, especially if it is at the cost of mid-range sound
- Not into that exaggerated "chhin chhin" treble.
- Like balanced sound, where the vocals sound good. (especially the deep vocals from the lower part of the throat - typical deep male voice vocals). Flute, the rounded sound of the Tablas or Operas are also important to me (quite an ask in that budget )
Quote:
Originally Posted by Poitive View Post
Decision made:
HU -Alpine - 100EUB
Speakers - 6" deep cone - The A Brand (will update the forum on the exact name later).
No special wiring it being used (don't think it is needed for this type of a setup) and fitting is not being charged extra.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Poitive View Post
Initial impression : Good balanced sound VFM package, with moderate fill, clarity and warmth, without being squeaky; leaving a possibility for an upgrade (front speakers - maybe components)
----------------
(@mods, please don't close the thread to accommodate that well, maybe others out there will be looking for sub 10k systems on the forum)
Don't know how many people will actually end up reading this, but as I had said, am writing a review of the system.

To start with, the A brand mentioned above was Auditor. They were 180W speakers. Auditor is supposed to be a brand by Focal Audio for their cheaper line of products.

To keep things in perspective we need to remember that less than 7.5k (all inclusive) was spent.

Sound
The sound was a lot better than what one would expect for this price point. In fact, even better than a lot higher price points. My preferences for sound have been mentioned above.

The bass is not boomy at all. Is fairly tight.

The highs too aren't overly shrill or squeaky. The "s" sounds are quite clear and not overly pronounced. Pretty good for the price, I must say.

The midrange is very good. For the price point, is a VERY musical system. Neutral sound, reproduced faithfully. Have heard various types of music on it and the vocals sound very good - male, female, operas, bollywood - they all sound good. If you are expecting to have a lot of thump and punch with the drums et all, don't look here. As I said, it is a neutral sounding system, as systems are classically supposed to be.

The sound fairly "open", but not as one may ideally want. That would be to do with the speakers being in the rear tray. I presume if I was to add components to the front, it would sound very good.

Being used to a lot more fill in sound, this system feels inadequate. But let us be fair, I am only using two 6inch speakers here and for that it has a lot of fill. Adding components (taking the total budget to about 11k) would make this system sound very good IMO. There is negligible distortion till a volume of 38 (tracks normalized to 90db) with a maximum volume setting of 40.

Am impressed with the sound. Very impressed for this sound at under 7.5k.

Interface and Ergonomics
Ideally would have wanted a larger display, which showed atleast the track-folder and the the track's time. This one is pretty small and only showed either of them. There is a dedicated button to cycle through the different views.

The buttons are fairly well spaced out. The volume dial is very easy to handle. Other button placements could be a bit better, but I guess that would be do to with how the system looks visually. It does look quite nice, though nothing spectacular.

Moving between different folders is via the up/down buttons. Unlike other Alpine systems, doesn't allow the volume dial for scrolling through folders and songs. This can be a pain if one has a lot of folders on one's USB drive.

The processor is pretty fast. I have used an 8GB drive with it, but only with about 2GB on it. Is supposed to support an 8GB, unlike many other systems which only support upto 4GB.

A MAJOR gripe I have is with the sorting of the folders on the USB. I would expect them to be accessed in alphabetical order. Alpine's manual talks about them being in the order they were written onto the drive. Now, this is a big pain. with a USB, one expects to be able to insert folders in whatever order one wants, but just naming them accordingly. This "system" of folder sorting leaves me with little use of an 8GB drive. Would take ages to find the right folder to play. How do other USB systems handle folder sorting?

Finding folders is not easy. While looking for a folder, there doesn't seem to be a quick way to see which folder one is on. Other Alpines have had an much easier way to select the folder.

The interface left a lot to be desired, though the ergonomics are quite good.
Features and Settings
Most people will find the system sorely lacking on these. It allow minimal settings. Has some 5 or so preset equalizer settings (Flat, Club, Pop, Rock, Vocal). Only Bass and Treble settings, with no selection for the frequency one is changing.

While this may seem like a drawback, it is how many good systems are designed. A system like this makes the signal travel through a shorter route with minimal circuits. Each circuit adds it's own distortions, so in general lesser circuits is better. Will probably write more on this topic and sound systems in general in another thread.
(@mods, if there is such a thread running, please point me to it).

I usually just keep the setting on Flat and all good recordings sound good. It is the poorly recorded stuff (poorly encoded/engineered MP3's which sound bad), which can't be compensated for. I like systems like these which have cleaner sound and work well for good recordings, though they offer little help in compensating poor recordings.

Ideally would have wanted the Bass and Treble settings to have selections for the frequency being adjusted.

The system lacks sorely on settings, but that probably makes the system sound as good in such a tight budget. I am not complaining.

Misc. Stuff
Am I happy with the purchase?
Well, though am not happy with the interface at all, but the sheer quality of sound puts a smile on my face.

Would I buy the same system in a similar budget?
Would buy the speakers for sure. Would try out a HU with a better interface; and probably go for it if the sound quality compromise is not significant.

At some point, if I use this car for long enough, would end up adding a pair of speakers to the front. Components would be ideal. Will give some sound stage, open sound, ample fill and enough bass without sounding boomy. But that can only really be ascertained on auditioning.

Highly recommend anyone looking for a budget system to check out Auditor speakers.
Also Alpine in general.

Now I may have made this review sound like that of some high end system, but those were the benchmarks, keeping the price point in mind. All in all, am very happy with the sound. Rather happy with the system on the whole. Don't think I could have gotten better at a similar price point.

Hope this review/thread helps some T-bhpians select a budget system.

Last edited by Poitive : 5th June 2011 at 17:55. Reason: Typos, formatting and minor improvements.
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Old 5th June 2011, 17:54   #15
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Default re: Cheap ICE for an Accent (7k or so). EDIT : ICE Review ADDED!

^
Are the shops you mentioned located at Lajpat Nagar?
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