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Old 8th May 2011, 12:02   #1
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Default Upgrading Speakers : Confused between Pioneer Co-axials v/s JBL Components

Hi Friends,

Off late, I have no ICE in my car, thanks to the CNG installation in my boot, I had to remove the speakers installed there (http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/long-t...ms-review.html (CNG'ed my 2002 ZEN MPFI : 1500 km's review)) .

Absence of an ICE in the vehicle has been pinching me a lot while driving in maddening traffic

This triggered my research for round speakers (4, 5 and 6 inch ones) that would fit neatly into the front door of my Zen.

After doing some research on the net and visiting Opera House, I have the following options

1. Co-Axials
a. Pioneer TS-A1684R TS-A1684R - 6-1/2" 4-Way Speaker (6-3/4" compatible) | Pioneer Electronics USA
These are 4 way round speakers with a frequency response from 33Hz to 27kHz. I'm getting genuine ones for around 2.5k. With these speakers in the front door (connected to the rear channel of the HU), I can opt for dashboard mounted tweeters (add another 1.2k).
b. MTX Speakers (3 way) for around 2.2k
c. Soundstream (3 way) for around 2k

2. Components
a. JBL GT6-266C. I'm getting these with tweeters for around 3.8k.
b. Pioneer 604C, I'm getting these with tweeters for around 4k.

I'm confused as to go for option 1a or 2a / 2b.

Would Components be better in my Zen or would co-axials suffice. I have a JVC HU and I do not intend to put an amplifier anytime soon. I am considering upgrading the HU to a Pioneer (haven't shortlisted a HU yet).

I have the following queries.

1. What is the basic difference between Components and Co-axials ?
2. What is the difference in connection for Components viz a viz co-axials ?
3. Can the components be connected to the rear channel with the tweeters on the front (eg. JBL GT6-266C on the rear channel with the tweeters on the front channel) ?
4. Would the base depth be better on Pioneer 1684, 4-way Co-axials or it would be better on JBL Components ?
5. Can components be driven without an amplifier ?
6. How much would the frequency response matter.
eg. Pioneer 1684S has a FR of 30 Hz - 27 khz, whereas JBL Compos have a FR of 50Hz - 20 khz.

All inputs from the Audio gurus out there would help me a lot.
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Old 9th May 2011, 13:56   #2
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Default Re: Upgrading Speakers : Confused between Pioneer Co-axials v/s JBL Components

how sure are you that they're genuine. and even then, the genuine ones are not that great shakes. comps are always better than coax, but its upto you to decide if the extra cost is worth it - you'll get better clarity, thats all.

1. comps have better tweeters, and they can be mounted on the dash where they can be heard better
2. comps have better crossovers, and will need some extra wiring
3. I've seen people do this, but its not recommended, it'll sound weird. Get another pair of cheap coaxes for rear fills
4. let your ears be the judge. the shop should let you audition both
5. yes
6. does not matter, again, let your ears be the judge and I'd take the pio spec with a pinch of salt
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Old 9th May 2011, 15:13   #3
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Default Re: Upgrading Speakers : Confused between Pioneer Co-axials v/s JBL Components

Quote:
Originally Posted by yogeshnagpal View Post
eg. Pioneer 1684S has a FR of 30 Hz - 27 khz, whereas JBL Compos have a FR of 50Hz - 20 khz.
I have not come across a 6" car audio coxial speaker that could touch 30Hz. I would doubt that particular spec very very much.
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Old 9th May 2011, 17:15   #4
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Default Re: Upgrading Speakers : Confused between Pioneer Co-axials v/s JBL Components

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Kapasi View Post
I have not come across a 6" car audio coxial speaker that could touch 30Hz. I would doubt that particular spec very very much.
Spcifications provided by most manufacturers are incomplete if not incorrect.

Take for example the 30-27kHz spec quoted above.

Did the manufactuer state at what power level this was measured?
Did the manufacturer give the tolerance +/- db of this spec?
Did the manufacturer specify the sweep speed of the plotter used?
Does the manufacturer specify the equipment used? Microphones have their only signaure and if the meausing microphone was down -2db at 30Hz it would change the way the intruments measured the loudspeaker. Which brings me to phase response. Microphones, like loudspeakers, have a phase reponse too!

Given that this is a car speaker we can only assume that the speaker when tested was tested on a baffle that resembled a car door panel.

An ideal specification would not be a set of numbers but a SET of graphs detailing not only the frequency response but also the impulse and polar response curves of the loudspeaker system. You can learn more at Linearx.com, purebits.com, etc..

Now what do we do - we use our ears.

In the end that is what music is all about na?

So just listen to the speakers (with your music and at the levels you normally like), and choose the one that you like best. It is your money, your music and your ears that are most important.
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Old 9th May 2011, 22:59   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greenhorn View Post
how sure are you that they're genuine. and even then, the genuine ones are not that great shakes. comps are always better than coax, but its upto you to decide if the extra cost is worth it - you'll get better clarity, thats all.

1. comps have better tweeters, and they can be mounted on the dash where they can be heard better
2. comps have better crossovers, and will need some extra wiring
3. I've seen people do this, but its not recommended, it'll sound weird. Get another pair of cheap coaxes for rear fills
4. let your ears be the judge. the shop should let you audition both
5. yes
6. does not matter, again, let your ears be the judge and I'd take the pio spec with a pinch of salt
@ Greenhorn,
The only reason why I was thinking of connecting Compos to the rear channel and the tweeters to the front since I do not have to much space left to connect additional set of co-ax's.

But few more questions come to my mind :
1. whether the compos are meant only for the front channel only
2. or there are seperate compos for the rear
3. or the compos can be connected to any of the channels

If 3 is true, then I can think of connecting Compos to the rear channel (fitted in the front door), tweets on the rear channel (fitted on the C-Pillar) and a seperate set of tweets on the front channel mounted on the dash.
But again, 2 set of tweets wouldn't make sense :(

Quote:
Originally Posted by navin View Post
Spcifications provided by most manufacturers are incomplete if not incorrect.

Take for example the 30-27kHz spec quoted above.

Did the manufactuer state at what power level this was measured?
Did the manufacturer give the tolerance +/- db of this spec?
Did the manufacturer specify the sweep speed of the plotter used?
Does the manufacturer specify the equipment used? Microphones have their only signaure and if the meausing microphone was down -2db at 30Hz it would change the way the intruments measured the loudspeaker. Which brings me to phase response. Microphones, like loudspeakers, have a phase reponse too!

Given that this is a car speaker we can only assume that the speaker when tested was tested on a baffle that resembled a car door panel.

An ideal specification would not be a set of numbers but a SET of graphs detailing not only the frequency response but also the impulse and polar response curves of the loudspeaker system. You can learn more at Linearx.com, purebits.com, etc..

Now what do we do - we use our ears.

In the end that is what music is all about na?

So just listen to the speakers (with your music and at the levels you normally like), and choose the one that you like best. It is your money, your music and your ears that are most important.
@Navin : Thanks for your inputs. However I'm not sure if I get to audition these speakers since I saw these at shops at Opera House. Somehow the very thought of downgrading from 4way 6*9 ovals to 6' speakers in the door makes me feel like yuck :( . Not sure how the speakers in the door would sound.

Last edited by Jaggu : 9th May 2011 at 23:42. Reason: Back to back posts, please use Multi Quote (Quote +) instead. Thanks
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Old 10th May 2011, 09:09   #6
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Default Re: Upgrading Speakers : Confused between Pioneer Co-axials v/s JBL Components

yogesh, comps can be fitted anywhere. there are people who fit comps in both front and back, provided it is fitted in the right position, they will sound awesome

there is nothing wrong with two sets of tweeters, if properly installed except for the higher cost of two compos
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Old 11th June 2011, 21:46   #7
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Default Re: Upgrading Speakers : Confused between Pioneer Co-axials v/s JBL Components

Update : Got a set of 'Powerbass' 6.5 inch co-axials fitted 2 weeks back in the front doors. Sounds good so far. Also brought an FM modulator which fits into the lighter socket . Reception quality from the modulator is good. Seems to be VFM.
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