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Old 1st April 2012, 08:43   #31
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Default Re: Speakers and Amp for Dzire VDi

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Originally Posted by ForeRunner View Post
Here are the concerns in the installation.
1. He connected the rear coax only with the Amps. He said he couldn't connect all the four speakers with the Amp as the stock HU only has two channel output. To do this I need to get some more stuff he said.
2. After installation the voulme in rear coax and front Comp are not even. The rear speakers tend to give more volume when the fading was put to '0' in the HU. I have now set the fading to F3 to get the same volume in front and rear.
3. This guy is completely unaware of damping material and the damping has to be done some where else.
4. At higher volume the door panels tend to vibrate. I am not sure whether this is due to poor installation or absence of damping.,
You will need speaker level to line level adapters to convert your HU's speaker level output to to line level.

Trim the gain on the amp to match the front rear fade.

Damping will reduce vibration in the door panels. I consider it a very significant upgrade to the sound of most car audio systems.

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And also I heard that Kappa Perfect 6.1 is discontinued and replaced by 60.9
You heard right. Bear in mind that the Perfect has a more elaborate crossover. The new 60.9 has a soft dome tweeter which I find more less fatiguing than Infinity's older metal dome.

(not all metal domes are bad, and not all soft domes are good so this is not a generalization just a comaprision of these 2 very specific tweeters).
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Old 1st April 2012, 10:12   #32
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Default Re: Speakers and Amp for Dzire VDi

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Originally Posted by greatmana2000 View Post
ok , the HU seems to have a single pre-out . The best way to wire is to use the pre-out with an amplifier for rear and the front speakers can be wired directly to the HU . Using a speaker level input causes a bit of distortion and destroys the whole idea of using an amplifier .
Thanks greatmana2000.
The current set up is looking like as mentioned by you. As the front comps are directly connected to HU the speaker volume is not even. Is it possible to split the HU's output into four so that all the four speakers can be connected with the four channel amplifier?
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Old 1st April 2012, 19:42   #33
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Default Re: Speakers and Amp for Dzire VDi

Did you buy the HU for any particular features ? I would suggest getting another HU with 4 preouts and probably you can sell this off .
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Old 2nd April 2012, 11:10   #34
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Default Re: Speakers and Amp for Dzire VDi

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Originally Posted by greatmana2000 View Post
... The best way to wire is to use the pre-out with an amplifier for rear and the front speakers can be wired directly to the HU ...
Not advisable, as this will give a predominantly rear-heavy image. OK if you are chauffered, pain if you drive yourself. Better to put the fronts on the amp and rear on the HU.

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... I would suggest getting another HU with 4 preouts and probably you can sell this off .
The max one gets as Pre-outs from the HU are 3 (pairs) - front, rear and sub. You possibly meant 2 pairs - front and rear (Pre-outs are always talked of in pairs).

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Originally Posted by ForeRunner View Post
... As the front comps are directly connected to HU the speaker volume is not even. Is it possible to split the HU's output into four ...
Navin has given the answer - a Line Output Converter (HiLo converter, Line Level Adapters) will give you Front and Rear RCA outputs.

Alternative is to wire the front to the amp, and the rears to the HU. This leaves the rear channels for connecting (bridged) to a sub. Even if you are not planning a sub now, you definitely will once you hear well-balanced well-tuned systems with sub.

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You will need speaker level to line level adapters to convert your HU's speaker level output to to line level.

Trim the gain on the amp to match the front rear fade. ...
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Old 2nd April 2012, 22:52   #35
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Default Re: Speakers and Amp for Dzire VDi

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Not advisable, as this will give a predominantly rear-heavy image. OK if you are chauffered, pain if you drive yourself. Better to put the fronts on the amp and rear on the HU.
Yes , I would agree with that , but again the front speakers have to be good enough . Most of the front speakers are lower powered than the rear ones . That is why the fronts are normally driven thru the HU and the rears due to much more flexibility can accomodate bigger speakers . I do not know abt the speakers which the OP has , but in general the fronts are lower wattage ones .


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The max one gets as Pre-outs from the HU are 3 (pairs) - front, rear and sub. You possibly meant 2 pairs - front and rear (Pre-outs are always talked of in pairs).
Yes , I meant 2 pairs or for a 4 channel amp 4 pre-outs are required .
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Old 3rd April 2012, 12:18   #36
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Yes , I would agree with that , but again the front speakers have to be good enough . Most of the front speakers are lower powered than the rear ones ...
Popular misconception!!!

The power capability of the speakers, especially the way manufacturers tend to mention power numbers, has nothing to do with ability to play loud enough for normal listening. Most decent speakers can handle 50-60W RMS (something that many speaker manufacturers conveniently ignore to mention), whereas almost all HU internal amps can only supply 14-17W RMS.

At normal to moderately loud listening volumes, almost all speakers are actually drawing much less power than the rated power. Speakers do not draw the stated rated power, instead they draw power based on their impedance and (the power equivalent of) the musical passage at any time.

It is only when one cranks the volume up to almost max that one can figure out the power handling ability, and that also if the amp rating is more than that of the speaker
- If the speaker power rating is much larger than that of the amplifier, the amp starts distorting at higher volumes. This distortion is faithfully reproduced by the speakers.
- If the amp power rating (like typical external amps) is near about, or more than, the speaker rating, the amp distorts at a significantly higher volume levels than the previous case. Here also the speakers convey the same distortion. If the power going into the speakers is reaching rated levels, the speaker starts producing distortion of its own
- If one goes higher than this, one can hear really harsh music (warning sign, equivalent of a crow cawing into one's ear sitting on your shoulder), and in extreme cases the speaker gives up it's ghost with a puff of smoke

Coming back to @ForeRunner's case, he has already found the problem of keeping the front on HU and rear on amp - gets a very dissatisfying image. Even if the front speakers are rated lower than the rears, good tuning will send more power to the fronts than the rears, resulting in a good front image. Rear is only for rear seat passengers and rear fill. Fader on HU does the same, but either when both front and rear are on internal amp, or when there are at least 2 Pre-out and both front and rear are on external amp.

In this case (front on ext amp, rear on HU), he has to start his tuning by first keeping Fader at 0, and volume set at a level that is comfortable in the rear seat, THEN set the front gain at the amp. If the rears are ALSO on ext amp, then he has to start by first setting front gain at amp, then slowly raising rear gain till it is just audible by leaning back towards the rear seat.
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Old 3rd April 2012, 21:31   #37
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Default Re: Speakers and Amp for Dzire VDi

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Originally Posted by DerAlte View Post
Popular misconception!!!

The power capability of the speakers, especially the way manufacturers tend to mention power numbers, has nothing to do with ability to play loud enough for normal listening. Most decent speakers can handle 50-60W RMS (something that many speaker manufacturers conveniently ignore to mention), whereas almost all HU internal amps can only supply 14-17W RMS.

At normal to moderately loud listening volumes, almost all speakers are actually drawing much less power than the rated power. Speakers do not draw the stated rated power, instead they draw power based on their impedance and (the power equivalent of) the musical passage at any time.
For normal listening where is the necessity for an amplifier . Speaker manufacturers tend to give the max possible power handling of the speaker rather than the minimum power handling . For example a speaker which is rated at 50w cannot really play at full 50w rating . The reason is Audio covers a wide spectrum for any speaker and it is not possible for a tweeter to reproduce bass notes or midrange frequencies or vice versa . Even when testing with a single speaker the impedance range of the speaker changes dynamically . IF a speaker is rated at 4 Ohm , the speaker impedance does not stay at 4 ohm but swings a lot . it might go down to even 1 ohm or go up to more than 16 ohm depending on the frequency that the speaker is playing . This simply translates to the rated power handling at some frequencies and not all frequencies . So for this reason it is always advisable to choose a speaker which has a flat frequency response or close to it . So in simple terms a speaker which has a manufacturer rating of 50W will not be able to play at 50w throughout its frequency range . Issues of cone break up or crossover tweaking has to be done to improve the response of the speaker . In car audio most of the HU are BTL implementations , meaning 2 amps drive a channel and BTL amps can easily produce 40-50 W of power at 2-4 OHM .

For just a 3db increase in volume the amplifier power must be doubled . This means that any external amplifer to sound more powerful has to be atleast double of what the HU can produce . So in theory external amplifier has to produce atleast 2 times of what the HU can produce for a 3db increase in volume .

Now , this is turning out to be a lengthy post .. will stop here .. cheers
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Old 4th April 2012, 10:20   #38
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Default Re: Speakers and Amp for Dzire VDi

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For normal listening where is the necessity for an amplifier ....
Define normal listening. In any case, there is an amplifier in the HU too. Just that an external amp performs far better - even for 'normal' listening.

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... this is turning out to be a lengthy post .. will stop here .. cheers
Yeah, even I was wondering what triggered the litany. Didn't find a connection with the thread topic or @ForeRunner's problem, though.
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Old 15th June 2012, 16:32   #39
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Default Re: Speakers and Amp for Dzire VDi

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Hi Ricky,

I am currently looking into www.sonicelectronix.com and once I finalise my options I will look other online buying options where I can get the items for lesser price and more reliable (vendor).
Hey buddy,

Did you buy from aforesaid website? If yes: Is this a good website to shop at?

The reason I'm asking is that I'm also planing to buy from same website and was worried, if they are genuine or not

Regards,
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Old 26th June 2012, 00:57   #40
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Hey buddy,

Did you buy from aforesaid website? If yes: Is this a good website to shop at?

The reason I'm asking is that I'm also planing to buy from same website and was worried, if they are genuine or not

Regards,
Hi Vivy_a.I,

I have ordered all my items from the above website and got all the items promptly. No hassles.

Regards,
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Old 26th June 2012, 11:12   #41
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... items from the above website and got all the items promptly. No hassles. ...
How did you get it shipped? Did you have any problems with Customs? How much % duty was charged?
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Old 26th June 2012, 15:21   #42
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How did you get it shipped? Did you have any problems with Customs? How much % duty was charged?

I brought the items with me when I came to India. The customs didn't ask anything at all at the airport. They asked me some questions about my SLR camera and the second laptop but not on the car audio.
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Old 26th June 2012, 16:15   #43
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I brought the items with me when I came to India ...
So essentially this 'ordering on US website' method works conveniently ONLY if one has a US address to which the stuff can be shipped, would you say? Most people asking about this method lack that facility - an address in US to ship to, then hand-carry it to India.
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Old 15th June 2013, 01:20   #44
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Default Re: Speakers and Amp for Dzire VDi

DerAlte & Nitrous Anna,
I would like to know if we can fit a GTO 1004 amp to Swift DZire VDi (2012 model) OEM Audio Head Unit. If so any idea if there are any RCUs given behind the OEM AHU?

Have worked in this field but it is in the past 5 years, history now. I haven't seen such additional RCAs present those times. I don't want to solder any Pre-Amp stage x4 Left + Right channel o/p points if RCAs are not present. Your information will be very helpful.

Read in several places that adding a signal attenuator/leveler to the speaker output (Power Amp o/p)of the OEM stereo will not give a proper and pure signal in good shape. This conversion to RCA is not recommendable. I would rather prefer a Pre-Amp o/p from the AHU as an input to a Class-D amp.

Last edited by yogeshnaik : 15th June 2013 at 01:24.
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Old 17th June 2013, 10:27   #45
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... I would like to know if we can fit a GTO 1004 amp to Swift DZire VDi (2012 model) OEM Audio Head Unit. If so any idea if there are any RCUs given behind the OEM AHU? ...
Sure, you can.

Not sure about your acronyms, but it shouldn't matter if the OE HU in DZire doesn't have Pre-outs. You neither have to solder anything inside the HU, nor is a LOC (Line Output Converter) a bad way of connecting to an amp. In fact, it is the default way of connecting whenever Pre-outs are not available terminated at RCA sockets on the HU. There is no signal degradation, nor any significant noise introduction if one uses a good LOC. Many Amps (unfortunately not the GTO1004) accept Speaker-level inputs - the LOC is built-in.
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