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Old 18th October 2012, 15:34   #46
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Default Re: Where are the Android HU's?

Alpine and Sony have apparently come out with head units which have MirrorLink. As far as I know this is currently available only on Android operating devices. But I am sure they will have it introduce to all other platforms.

The MirroLink basically mirrors the content on your smartphone to the screen on the 2DIN head unit. For example, you can have maps/navigation available on your phone to work directly on your head unit so no more buying expensive 'black boxes'. MirrorLink is applicable more to Nokia devices but apparently it also works on the Samsung Galaxy S3 and the likes.

I have recently bought the Alpine head unit which has the MirrorLink feature and which is also a high end SQ oriented unit. It is a 2DIN unit with built-in Bluetooth, iPod Ready, MirrorLink Certified, Reverse Cam direct connection, 24 bit DAC, 6 channel Time Correction in pro-mode, USB, & 9 band parametric EQ.
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Old 20th October 2012, 12:10   #47
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Default Re: Where are the Android HU's?

Does the alpine unit have the capability to play ALAC files bypassing the phone's DAC in the USB mode?
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Old 20th October 2012, 22:47   #48
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Default Re: Where are the Android HU's?

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Originally Posted by ssk3g5 View Post
Looks like you do not like software engineers ...
Speed reading has disadvantages if you don't do it properly - read carefully. Your simple mistakes make you judgmental about people you do not know, and rob you of enrichment.

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... But I see a very different point of view of how you look at centralized systems and how I look at it; Your point is valid for mission critical systems and larger scale solutions. ...
LOL Marvellous naivette! You are also a better wordsmith than me, but perhaps you should understand the stuff and its terminology before propounding alternate theories. Most of these are rather beyond debate around the world, present in current and future products, and not a matter of how you or me look at it personally.
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Old 20th October 2012, 23:01   #49
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Default Re: Where are the Android HU's?

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Nice set of 'features'! And how much will an HU with these (software) features cost, ultimately? LOL All software engineers want higher salaries every year, and the cost has to be borne by consumers, right? Or does one assume the Open Source Software world will take care of these features, which we can download for free? TANSTAFL!
Additional cost of these features would be Zero for the HU. Rest of the features can be added by "Apps". It is up to the app developers to write and monetize those apps.

For example, my Android phone has a drive mode, where it turns off phone radio and switches to a GPS + Music screen.

In fact Android (or ever iOS or BB10) would reduce the cost since HU can share most of the software with rest of the "ecosystem". Only thing that is needed is a HU specific UI.

That turns a "dumb" HU to an HU that is connected to internet and can automatically download songs that I purchase from Flipkart/iTunes/Google Play and automatically categorizes as well.

And since this functionality already exists in all Mobile OS, HU provider need not write any of these.
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Old 22nd October 2012, 10:12   #50
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Default Re: Where are the Android HU's?

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Additional cost of these features would be Zero for the HU. Rest of the features can be added by "Apps". It is up to the app developers to write and monetize those apps. ... since this functionality already exists in all Mobile OS, HU provider need not write any of these.
Precisely. Since all the 'desirable' features are present in the phone, why does the HU provider need to do anything other than provide the basic infrastructural facilities for music playback - DAC, amp, radio, alternate storage?

For that one doesn't need an OS! The only thing one needs is the right interface between the phone and the HU. All the HU manufacturers realized that with virtually no additional software or hardware (just using the storage access protocol) they are able to cater to the Apple devices which currently dominate the market, but the same is not true for the Android world.

Android 'mirroring' maybe in the right direction, but if you examine the impact on the HU (higher power microcontroller / processor required, higher investment required in making software for a capable base HU), it would push up costs for the manufacturers without assured returns. Sure, most of them are tentatively exploring the possibilities, but none of them will go mass market yet. There is no point in abandoning existing investments in conventional paradigms. The Android world, like the almost-defunct Maemo's attempt at creating a new paradigm for users, will will face the same difficulties in pushing in a new paradigm with suspect returns.
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Old 22nd October 2012, 10:25   #51
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Default Re: Where are the Android HU's?

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Does the alpine unit have the capability to play ALAC files bypassing the phone's DAC in the USB mode?
I am not sure really as it doesn't say so in the manual and I haven't installed the HU yet.
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Old 22nd October 2012, 11:40   #52
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Precisely. Since all the 'desirable' features are present in the phone, why does the HU provider need to do anything other than provide the basic infrastructural facilities for music playback - DAC, amp, radio, alternate storage?
Both Options are being developed commercially.

1. Pioneer already has Head Units that mirror Phones (Android or iPhone). This feature is called AppRadio 2. Available in stores. http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/PU...28SPH-DA100%29
2. Clarion has Android based Head Unit (Mirage IVI) coming in 2013 Q1. This is a Head Unit running Android, has GPS+3G+WiFi and supports Google Play store for installing apps.

After all, a 1 GHz Qualcomm S1 based SOC costs just $20. Though not hardened for use in ECU etc, it is good enough for ICE. There are phones that cost just 6k INR with this SOC.

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There is no point in abandoning existing investments in conventional paradigms.
Off course, both lines should continue, HUs that focus primarily on Audio and excel at that and HUs that focus on integration with Andoid/iOS/BB10/Windows at various laves.


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The Android world, like the almost-defunct Maemo's attempt at creating a new paradigm for users, will will face the same difficulties in pushing in a new paradigm with suspect returns.
That is an opinion about future . Would be interesting to revisit this post in 3 - 4 years.

http://www.windriver.com/news/press/pr.html?ID=9904
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Old 22nd October 2012, 11:57   #53
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Default Re: Where are the Android HU's?

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Originally Posted by DerAlte View Post
Precisely. Since all the 'desirable' features are present in the phone, why does the HU provider need to do anything other than provide the basic infrastructural facilities for music playback - DAC, amp, radio, alternate storage?
one could say the same thing about the new cameras running android vs a dedicated camera + an android phone, and yet they are being made

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For that one doesn't need an OS!
technically that makes sense, yes, building an OS into a car stereo doesn't make sense. (much like putting an OS into a phone did not make sense once upon a time)
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There is no point in abandoning existing investments in conventional paradigms. The Android world, like the almost-defunct Maemo's attempt at creating a new paradigm for users, will will face the same difficulties in pushing in a new paradigm with suspect returns.
Of course, existing manufacturers would think that way, and nobody would do it, but all we need are a few new entrants to shake that up
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Old 9th December 2012, 22:12   #54
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Default Re: Where are the Android HU's?

I have a small doubt,
I have a pioneer 2DIN touchscreen system in my honda civic, which is "ipod ready" and it plays music from my ipod/iphone thru USB(ipod cable) absolutely flawlessly,its battery is getting charged when its connected too, the HU screen acts like a ipod screen, and absolutely no problem
My question is, I am looking to change my phone to a samsung galaxy, s3 or note2(not too much of a difference between the two wrt music player) my question is, Will i be able to connect the phone to the USB port(it's a wire brought from the back of the system thru a female USB port) and play/control music from the HU, I dont need to use any apps on the HU
I know i can connect it to the AUX, but 1) the sound quality isn't the same, 2) phone isn charging, 3) cant control music from HU
Your responses in this regard would be appreciated
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Old 9th December 2012, 22:31   #55
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Default Re: Where are the Android HU's?

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I have a small doubt,
I have a pioneer 2DIN touchscreen system in my honda civic, ...
Any HU that a USB interface, can read any smartphone as a USB storage devices. All that the HU does is read the song file, decode it and play it through the speakers.

This is true for iPhones etc. too, the only difference is that an iPhone is able to provide alternate search methods based on Playlist, Artist, Album etc., which needs a special protocol. Any HU that understands this protocol says "iPod / iPhone compatible", and will definitely support other smartphones via USB.

Last edited by DerAlte : 9th December 2012 at 22:32.
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Old 10th December 2012, 12:11   #56
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Default Re: Where are the Android HU's?

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2) phone isn charging,
For android phones (probably only newer ones) when phone will be connected to HU it will charge in USB mode (@ 500mA i.e. slowly as against AC mode @1A). If you plan to use the phone for navigation then the USB mode charging may not be sufficient and the phone battery can actually drain.

You would be better off with a USB drive for media connected to the HU in such situations and phone can be charged using dedicated charger (capable of charging android devices in AC mode i.e. which have short data port).
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Old 10th December 2012, 12:37   #57
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Default Re: Where are the Android HU's?

When I plug in my Android phone (arc S) through USB on Pioneer 4490 HU, it doesn't recognize the device. Let alone using it in media storage mode, it doesn't even charge it :(
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Old 11th December 2012, 11:48   #58
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... If you plan to use the phone for navigation then the USB mode charging may not be sufficient and the phone battery can actually drain. ...
No, it won't drain. Conventional USB charging (even the AC charger is 500mA max.; USB +5V convention is 500mA limit other than iPad 2 onwards) covers phone usage. Just that it takes longer to reach full charge. 45 minutes trips with charger and GPS on effectively charges the equivalent of +20-25% in most phones.

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When I plug in my Android phone (arc S) through USB on Pioneer 4490 HU, it doesn't recognize the device. Let alone using it in media storage mode, it doesn't even charge it :(
Check the phone manual - perhaps it doesn't support USB based charging (as @alto99 pointed out) and maybe USB drive mode connection to a USB client (PC or HU; phone should act as server).
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Old 11th December 2012, 11:55   #59
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Default Re: Where are the Android HU's?

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No, it won't drain. Conventional USB charging (even the AC charger is 500mA max.; USB +5V convention is 500mA limit other than iPad 2 onwards) covers phone usage. Just that it takes longer to reach full charge. 45 minutes trips with charger and GPS on effectively charges the equivalent of +20-25% in most phones.

Check the phone manual - perhaps it doesn't support USB based charging (as @alto99 pointed out) and maybe USB drive mode connection to a USB client (PC or HU; phone should act as server).
It charges with other USB cables either connected to its own charger or other 'USB out' chargers, charges on PC etc.

My iPod works fine with the HU.
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Old 11th December 2012, 12:00   #60
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Default Re: Where are the Android HU's?

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No, it won't drain. Conventional USB charging (even the AC charger is 500mA max.; USB +5V convention is 500mA limit other than iPad 2 onwards) covers phone usage. Just that it takes longer to reach full charge. 45 minutes trips with charger and GPS on effectively charges the equivalent of +20-25% in most phones.
AC Charger that came with my android phone is 1A. 3 years before a windows phone I bought also had charger of 1A.
I faced this problem of phone discharging in-spite of being connected to the USB of HU while using GPS. This will depend on the phone /brightness setting/ apps running on the phone but if its for bigger screens like SGS3 battery will most likely drain. Mine is 5 inch and it does drain.

So I searched the net and found that (at least) android phones charge at 500mA max while connected to a data port (HU/laptop/etc). But when connected to AC charger it charges at 1A. This is because in AC charger data ports are short and this is detected by the phone. This can also be verified settings>Battery. Charging mode is mentioned as AC or USB.

On further searching I found many car USB chargers do have open data port and hence even if the spec says 1A or 2A android phones charge @ 500mA only. People have went ahead, open the charger and "short" the data port. Check this image and the note on it on amazon http://www.amazon.com/gp/customer-me...x=0&isremote=0.

Last edited by alto99 : 11th December 2012 at 12:02.
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