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Old 8th October 2012, 10:10   #1
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Default Where no one has gone before! ICE for my Skoda Laura L&K

Hi Everyone, I'm back!

I had recently purchased a Skoda Laura L&K after selling my Fortuner.

The car is simply a 'james bond' car but I still wanted to have my amps and speakers installed to enjoy to its fullest. Moreover, selling the amps and speakers would have to be at some throw away price which I didnt want - after all, its my hard earned money.

All ICE modifications were done at Autofusion, by Thouqeer!

We did the ICE modifications in three stages:

Step 1:

Identify the stock ICE components and the way its installed.

The HU is the radio bolero. The HU connects to a 10-channel amplifier located under the front passgenger seat. The HU is merely used as a transport while its the amplifier that does all the amplification, sound processing, volume/B&T controls etc. The amplifier outputs the signal in discrete channels for the woofer, mid-range and tweeters for the front and rear doors.

The stock HU and amplifier are very good in terms of build and audio quality. You only need to upgrade the speakers for a good quality sound.

The rear side of the HU only fed to the amplifier. There are two aux-out ports but they are of fixed outputs and the signal does not vary with the volume control.

We also found out the best place to install the amps and sub is the boot as there is less inteference picked up and ofcoure, least tampering with anything stock!

Step 2:

How do we install my amps, speakers & sub? This is indeed a very big question, as I wanted zero stock tampering! I never compromised on this part.

The installation of the Focal speakers (woofer & tweeter) was straightforward just as in any other car, we removed the stock woofer, tweeter & midrange and installed my components. The question was on how to supply the signal to the amps! The stock HU did not have any line-outs which varied with the volume control of the HU; the amp output was in three parts, woofer, mid-range & tweeter!

I never give up so I started my research along with Thouqeer and Venkatesh (chottu, as he's called). Thouqeer suggested I install a separate single din HU just after the DSG stick, which would offer the signals to the amps just like in any other setup. This was very acceptable. I came home for some more research and to be sure no stock components are tampered, just when I realized I would loose my steering controls, moreover I would not be able to use the stock HU, which I did want as it displays all the track information, can be controlled from the steering etc.

What next? I left the search task to Google which pointed to me to the JL-audio cleansweep devices. What is the Cleansweep device? The JL-audio cleansweep devices are used for OEM integration between HU and amplifiers. There are two types of devices in this category, the cleansweep signal summing interface and the cleansweep DSP.

Both these devices are required for my installation. The cleansweep signal summing interface (SSI) accepts signals at line-level or speaker-level in the form of 2/3 way, sums up these independent signals/channels to a single signal/channel. The device has 3-pairs of inputs. I fed the woofer, mid-range and tweeter signals to these device. Without cutting any stock wires, I extended the stock woofer, mid-range and tweeter speaker wires from the front left and right doors for the inputs to the SSI. The SSI provides a simple L & R outputs. This signal is fed to the cleansweep DSP which has a 32-bit sharc dsp with 30 band per channel equalizer that adjusts the signal to provide a flat response outpout which may be fed to the amplifiers (which I'm installing).

You may ofcourse use the HU tone controls as you like, after the installation.

The cleansweep devices comes with an installation CD which should be used to calibrate the device. All the power leads were drawn directly from the battery terminal.

After all the connections were done, we made sure we could hear the music through the appropriate speakers. Next was the tuning / calibration step.

The DSP comes with its own volume control which has to be set to minimum while the HU volume is set at a level we normally listen to (the manual mentions 50-75% of the maximum - I found setting leads to incorrect calibration). The SSI has three sets of pot-screws which is rotated until the corresponding LED turns "green". Once this is achieved, we wait for about 30 seconds just to be sure the SSI calibration is done correctly and the LEDs to not turn "amber or red". The next step is the DSP calibration. This step is pretty simply - take a paper clip and press the "calibrate" button and wait for about 30 seconds, during which you'll see the LEDs flashing in several colors/fashion.

Onces the DSP LEDs turn steady "Green" the calibration is successful and time to enjoy your music!

The DSP volume control is increased from minimum till a level is achieved with least noise. You may ofcourse tune your amp settings for your liking.

Phew! Music atlast!

Now for some pics!

Last edited by nitinbose : 8th October 2012 at 10:34.
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Old 8th October 2012, 10:46   #2
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Default re: Where no one has gone before! ICE for my Skoda Laura L&K

Hi Everyone,

Here are some pics of the installation. I tried to use the edit feature, but 30 minutes have expired and I can no longer edit.
Attached Thumbnails
Where no one has gone before! ICE for my Skoda Laura L&K-image001.jpg  

Where no one has gone before! ICE for my Skoda Laura L&K-image004.jpg  

Where no one has gone before! ICE for my Skoda Laura L&K-image006.jpg  

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Old 10th October 2012, 11:07   #3
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Default Re: Where no one has gone before! ICE for my Skoda Laura L&K

I have a question:

What are the typical amplifier gain settings (4-channel & Monoblock) used?
Mine is set at about 90% on both but still when I set the volume of the HU to about 80%, I can hear distortion. The volumes I get are also not so high, nobody outside my car can hear the beats or music, even if kept at a high volume.
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Old 10th October 2012, 11:28   #4
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Default Re: Where no one has gone before! ICE for my Skoda Laura L&K

I'm not sure if this would have helped, but on the Radio Bolero (the hu) I'm pretty sure you can alter the output signals from the service menu. If you google on how to reach the service menu there are quite a few things you can change. It may be possible you didn't need the cleansweap if you had done this.
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Old 10th October 2012, 13:40   #5
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Default Re: Where no one has gone before! ICE for my Skoda Laura L&K

Quote:
Originally Posted by nitinbose View Post
I have a question:

What are the typical amplifier gain settings (4-channel & Monoblock) used?
Mine is set at about 90% on both but still when I set the volume of the HU to about 80%, I can hear distortion. The volumes I get are also not so high, nobody outside my car can hear the beats or music, even if kept at a high volume.
'Typical' gain settings are usually in the range of 70%.

Q: Why did you choose Cleansweep? Did you investigate Mosconi's Mosconi 6to8 , JBL's MS8, RF's 360.3, Alpine's PXE-H660 or PXA-H800, Audison Bit One or Bit 10, Helix's PP50 or Arc's PS8.

Some like the MS8, 360, and the Alpine units are prefered by those who autio tune others like the Audison, Arc, Helix etc.. are prefered by those who prefer to tinker with the controls.

With OEM systems integrating so many car functions (everything from navigation to tyre pressure to bluetooth and other system functions) DSp processors might be the way to go for those who want to upgrade the sound without loosing all the integrated funtionality of modern OEM HUs.
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Old 10th October 2012, 16:04   #6
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Default Re: Where no one has gone before! ICE for my Skoda Laura L&K

Quote:
Originally Posted by akshay1234 View Post
I'm not sure if this would have helped, but on the Radio Bolero (the hu) I'm pretty sure you can alter the output signals from the service menu. If you google on how to reach the service menu there are quite a few things you can change. It may be possible you didn't need the cleansweap if you had done this.
I would definitely like to explore this option. Could you please give me some pointers. I'm just wondering, if the HU does not output speaker or line signals, from where and how does teh stock amp receive signals from, how does it control the HU volume?

Quote:
Originally Posted by navin View Post
'Typical' gain settings are usually in the range of 70%.

Q: Why did you choose Cleansweep? Did you investigate Mosconi's Mosconi 6to8 , JBL's MS8, RF's 360.3, Alpine's PXE-H660 or PXA-H800, Audison Bit One or Bit 10, Helix's PP50 or Arc's PS8.

Some like the MS8, 360, and the Alpine units are prefered by those who autio tune others like the Audison, Arc, Helix etc.. are prefered by those who prefer to tinker with the controls.
I chose cleansweep as that seemed the best given the price. MS-8 is almost double the cost.
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Old 10th October 2012, 19:09   #7
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Default Re: Where no one has gone before! ICE for my Skoda Laura L&K

@ Navin: Furthermore, In the Laura L&K, the HU connects to the stock amplifier which has separate amplifier for woofer, midrange and tweeter. To use the audio, we must first sum these signals so that they become a full range signal. Hence I'd opted for the cleansweep.
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Old 12th October 2012, 20:05   #8
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Default Re: Where no one has gone before! ICE for my Skoda Laura L&K

Congrats Nitin, neat setup. I didn't get the bit about "where no one has gone before" though.
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Old 16th October 2012, 16:54   #9
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Default Re: Where no one has gone before! ICE for my Skoda Laura L&K

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Congrats Nitin, neat setup. I didn't get the bit about "where no one has gone before" though.
It simply means what only a few people might have attempted. I havent seen anyone in this forum install customer ICE for a Laura L&K with the Bolero setup and stock amp. The Skoda dealer told me its impossible and so did many of the dealers. Thouqeer initiall suggested installing a separate single DIN HU which was when we saw this product and decided to take a plunge!
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Old 17th October 2012, 10:43   #10
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Default Re: Where no one has gone before! ICE for my Skoda Laura L&K

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Originally Posted by nitinbose View Post
It simply means what only a few people might have attempted. I havent seen anyone in this forum install customer ICE for a Laura L&K with the Bolero setup and stock amp.
Now I am a bit confused. From your first posts I gather that The Laura L&K has a HU and an amplifer/processor. You inserted a Cleansweep after the HU and added amplifiers and a subwoofer. Where does the stock amp figure in this?

BTW my wife 2010 Honda City uses the Stock HU mated to an Alpine Alpine's PXE-H650 and my 2012 Camry uses the Stock HU mated to an Audison Bit 10 (but I am thinking of upgrading it to the Bit 1). I believe as modern OEM HUs continue to integrate other non-audio functions, processors like the Cleansweep, Alpine, Audison, MS8, 360.3, PP50 and PS8 will become more common in high end installs.

Last edited by navin : 17th October 2012 at 10:45.
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Old 17th October 2012, 18:04   #11
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Default Re: Where no one has gone before! ICE for my Skoda Laura L&K

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Originally Posted by nitinbose View Post
It simply means what only a few people might have attempted. I havent seen anyone in this forum install customer ICE for a Laura L&K with the Bolero setup and stock amp.
Its quite common. A lot of Mercedes, BMWs, Jags, etc are upgraded using such processors. Not sure if anyone has posted on the forum or not.

Quote:
Originally Posted by navin View Post
Now I am a bit confused. From your first posts I gather that The Laura L&K has a HU and an amplifer/processor. You inserted a Cleansweep after the HU and added amplifiers and a subwoofer. Where does the stock amp figure in this?
The processor must definitely be receiving the signal after the OEM amplifier stage.
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Old 17th October 2012, 18:50   #12
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Default Re: Where no one has gone before! ICE for my Skoda Laura L&K

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Originally Posted by navin View Post
Now I am a bit confused. From your first posts I gather that The Laura L&K has a HU and an amplifer/processor. You inserted a Cleansweep after the HU and added amplifiers and a subwoofer. Where does the stock amp figure in this?

BTW my wife 2010 Honda City uses the Stock HU mated to an Alpine Alpine's PXE-H650 and my 2012 Camry uses the Stock HU mated to an Audison Bit 10 (but I am thinking of upgrading it to the Bit 1). I believe as modern OEM HUs continue to integrate other non-audio functions, processors like the Cleansweep, Alpine, Audison, MS8, 360.3, PP50 and PS8 will become more common in high end installs.
+1
As Navin sir said, this kinda set up has been done multiple times by lot many car owners. Infact my XUV stock HU is run by Audison Bit 10 as well.

Any ways, congrats on your install, Enjoy.
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Old 18th October 2012, 10:13   #13
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Default Re: Where no one has gone before! ICE for my Skoda Laura L&K

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Originally Posted by navin View Post
Now I am a bit confused. From your first posts I gather that The Laura L&K has a HU and an amplifer/processor. You inserted a Cleansweep after the HU and added amplifiers and a subwoofer. Where does the stock amp figure in this?

I believe as modern OEM HUs continue to integrate other non-audio functions, processors like the Cleansweep, Alpine, Audison, MS8, 360.3, PP50 and PS8 will become more common in high end installs.
Thanks Navin and everyone who replied. Its quite encouraging. Frankly, I've not seen such posts.

The Bolero HU connects to the stock amplifier. The stock amplifier has 10 independent channels, for woofer, mid-range & tweeter. I had to take the leads from the woofer, mid-range & tweeter, connect to the CL-SSI (Summer) and have a full-range signal obtained. This signal is fed to the CL-441 DSP which equalizes and provides you a flat audio response. The output of the DSP is sent to the amps.

It appears its the stock amplifier & its dsp that controlls the volume, Bass, mids and treble as well as the effects. There is an aux-out at the back of the bolero but the HU volume control has no effect on this. The same applies to the signal sent as the input to the stock amplifier.

I would love to skip the stock amp by making HU provide a controllable signal but cant figure out how, any suggestions?

I've also seen HU from Witson (www.witson.com) for VW, Skoda and other cars. Are these HUs reliable and of a good quality? I'm only concerned as they're chinese.
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Old 18th October 2012, 10:52   #14
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Default Re: Where no one has gone before! ICE for my Skoda Laura L&K

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Originally Posted by nitinbose View Post
Thanks Navin and everyone who replied. Its quite encouraging. Frankly, I've not seen such posts.

The Bolero HU connects to the stock amplifier. The stock amplifier has 10 independent channels, for woofer, mid-range & tweeter. I had to take the leads from the woofer, mid-range & tweeter, connect to the CL-SSI (Summer) and have a full-range signal obtained. This signal is fed to the CL-441 DSP which equalizes and provides you a flat audio response. The output of the DSP is sent to the amps.

It appears its the stock amplifier & its dsp that controlls the volume, Bass, mids and treble as well as the effects. There is an aux-out at the back of the bolero but the HU volume control has no effect on this. The same applies to the signal sent as the input to the stock amplifier.

I would love to skip the stock amp by making HU provide a controllable signal but cant figure out how, any suggestions?

I've also seen HU from Witson (www.witson.com) for VW, Skoda and other cars. Are these HUs reliable and of a good quality? I'm only concerned as they're chinese.
So the signal from the HU first goes to the OEM amplifier then to the Clean sweep summing device (via speaker level inputs) and later to the Cleansweep DSP then to your new amplifiers and back to the speakers. Wow that is a long signal chain and THAT might well be a first!

First you crossover then amplify, then you sum then you attentuate and afer that DSP then you amplify again! This is not good. There must be a cleaner way.

What outputs does your HU give? How many? I can only assume 6 for woofer, mid, tweeter and then maybe 2 for the rear and 2 for the subwoofers.
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Old 18th October 2012, 11:02   #15
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Default Re: Where no one has gone before! ICE for my Skoda Laura L&K

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So the signal from the HU first goes to the OEM amplifier then to the Clean sweep summing device (via speaker level inputs) and later to the Cleansweep DSP then to your new amplifiers and back to the speakers. Wow that is a long signal chain and THAT might well be a first!
Yes that's correct. Its indeed a long signal chain which is why am trying to get a different HU or make the HU give a controllable signal.

Quote:
Originally Posted by navin View Post
First you crossover then amplify, then you sum then you attentuate and afer that DSP then you amplify again! This is not good. There must be a cleaner way.
Yes, there is some hissing as a result, especially if you keep the DSP volume at the maximum - a compromise.

Quote:
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What outputs does your HU give? How many? I can only assume 6 for woofer, mid, tweeter and then maybe 2 for the rear and 2 for the subwoofers.
The HU gives a fixed output similar to the line outputs on a TV or DVD/Blu-ray player but almost at a speaker level. Your assumption is correct.


Any suggestions on the Witson HU? Any method to make the signal path shorter is welcome.
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