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Old 24th July 2008, 11:49   #541
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Originally Posted by nitin.dangayach View Post
Ok while having discussion with the Dynamat guys, they told me that the material actually damps the vibration energy and thus the deadening effect. The sound waves, the vibrational rattles are absorbed in the material and that is precisely how the dampening works.

The steel parts, being highly rigid, vibrate more compared to the inner plastic/board layer. The inner layer, being of board itself has some dampening effect so you dont really have to do it first.

The starting point has to be the inside of the door's outer metallic surface.

I am sure you are little wrong here.

I know I am new to this, but being a mechanical engineer and being a topper in my class in STRENGHT OF MATERIALS/Elasticity subjects, the explanation sound pretty logical and convincing.

I bet you are wrong here LBM.
I think you might have gone a little wrong here. The doors have a tendency to vibrate more not because they are rigid but because as a structure they are not. While the door itself is a robust piece metal and is resistant to low frequencies it it it's attachment/hinging and locking mechanism to the body of the car that makes it prone to low frequency sound waves. So putting the damping material anywhere on any location as long as it is perpendicular to the direction of sound will produce a damping effect. Sticking to the door itself will help since the damping material will fit snug and tight. In fact the best position to put the damping material would be to stick on the inside of the doors directly (where we have door locks) but it just spoils the looks
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Old 24th July 2008, 20:12   #542
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Originally Posted by zaks View Post
... it's attachment/hinging and locking mechanism to the body of the car that makes it prone to low frequency sound waves. ... as long as it is perpendicular to the direction of sound will produce a damping effect. ... In fact the best position to put the damping material would be to stick on the inside of the doors directly (where we have door locks) ...
@zaks, you are taking this to a different level!

* In your model, the door (as a unit from hinge to door lock, as you describe) is already damped by the rubber gasket attached to the body
* Your "perpendicular to the direction of the sound" is correct. Panels flex to produce/transmit any sound, just like a drum skin does to produce sound. (Frequency of produced / transmitted sound is inversely proportional to panel size and degree of flexing) The damping material reduces flexing of the larger expanses of sheet metal like a shock absorber along the panel (perpendicular to the sound), by taking away energy from it
* "The inner layer, being of board itself has some dampening effect": Yes, but this is true only for pulp board (M800 etc.). FRP door pads (more common) produces a large low frequency hum, which, unless damped out, cancels out some "music" of the mid-bass!!! It also takes the speaker forward and backward if mounted on it (now go do the maths on the relative motion effects)
* Just damping the door pad (where the 'door locks' are according to you) is not going to solve the problem. The biggest culprit is the outermost panel - that johnny makes the most sound by self-resonance, which gets transmitted into the cabin through the chassis, via the hinges and door lock. The roof and the chassis (cabin floor) are even worse - but they are better damped already.
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Old 24th July 2008, 20:17   #543
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In indicas however , the speaker is attached to the plastic door panel. the plastic makes the worst racket in my experience . Just pressing it firmly reduced it a lot
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Old 24th July 2008, 20:38   #544
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In indicas however , the speaker is attached to the plastic door panel. the plastic makes the worst racket in my experience . Just pressing it firmly reduced it a lot

Hey greeny ! Are you on [E] as well, with the same name ?
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Old 24th July 2008, 22:18   #545
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In indicas however , the speaker is attached to the plastic door panel. ...
That is a Tata "feature", I guess, mounting speakers on the FRP door pad. Indica, Sumo Grande, Safari, ...
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Old 16th August 2008, 11:55   #546
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I should have posted here rather than "ask the gurus" section. Reading the thread from the beginning did help a lot.

Here is my problem:
My minivan is very quiet when idling or on asphalt. but gets very noisy when on concrete when cruising at 80 mph.
Also It's too big to decide which areas to sound proof.

from what I understood so far:
I do not need any damping since I am not changing the ICE setup, and there are no vibrations anywhere.

Is it safe to assume I only need to use sound barriers, like this ( B-Quiet sound deadening materials - B-Quiet Vcomp )and no mass loading damping?

and secondly,
how should I go about it. My van is a big room from front to back, with three rows of seating, third row often stowed in the floor. and sliding doors will be extremely cumbersome to open and sound proof. I am already thnking of professional help to open the things, labor is so costly in US

for reference: 2007 nissan quest minivan - vivekiny2k’s Photo Gallery - Team-BHP

Last edited by vivekiny2k : 16th August 2008 at 12:00.
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Old 24th September 2008, 23:53   #547
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i need to get damping in my civic front doors and rear parcel shelf. i have a big sheet of foam lying with me its thickness is around 1 inch. can i use this for the rear parcel tray...as the tray rattles a lot due to the sub in the boot. would using this foam sheet between the metal frame and the plastic tray reduce the rattling. though, for the front doors i'll be using noisekill damping.
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Old 25th September 2008, 11:41   #548
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Originally Posted by sanchits View Post
i need to get damping in my civic front doors and rear parcel shelf. i have a big sheet of foam lying with me its thickness is around 1 inch. can i use this for the rear parcel tray...as the tray rattles a lot due to the sub in the boot. would using this foam sheet between the metal frame and the plastic tray reduce the rattling. though, for the front doors i'll be using noisekill damping.
plain foam will not help with damping. it can absorb sound but to damp the resonace of a panel you need a bit of mass.
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Old 25th September 2008, 14:27   #549
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...as the tray rattles a lot due to the sub in the boot. would using this foam sheet between the metal frame and the plastic tray reduce the rattling. though, for the front doors i'll be using noisekill damping.
You just need to reduce the 'play' of the tray against the frame.

1. Stick a layer of double sided tape (remove only one layer of the wax paper) all along the edges that make contact with the metal frame

2. Place blocks of the foam in places where the plastic tray has the most play (press down in different areas to figure that out) , in a way that the foam raises the tray by at least 5-10mm. Stick the foam blocks to the metal frame with rubber solution. Press down on the tray and fix it
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Old 29th September 2008, 15:04   #550
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hey friends
is noisekill or wuerth readily available at delhi? i mean can we go to some shops/showrooms which deal in car audio and get these materials or do we have to order in advance?
one more thing after how many years of use does one have to replace it, does it affect the rusting properties of the car metal in any way, i mean im sure it has to be waterproof but if someone who has been using these products for many years, can shed some light on it, it would be great
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Old 14th October 2008, 20:42   #551
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Default Verna - Damping

Hi,

I have some doubts about doing damping.
  1. I am not going to install a big ICE in my Verna in near future (not at least for next 6 months, even if I do, budget will be in 30K). I am doing damping only because I want a quiet environment inside my car, like inside a luxury car. So is it advisable to do damping, just only for this?
  2. How much it costs for doing full damping in Trivandrum or Cochin?
  3. Do you know any good place where I can get it done?
  4. Very soon, I will be going to Dubai. Do you think, I can get damping material more cheap there? If so, can you recommend a good material, shop in Dubai?

Note from Team-BHP Support : Thread MERGED. Please use the search feature before creating a new thread on a topic that might already exist. Please continue your discussion in an existing thread. This will keep all the relevant information in one place and make it easier for readers in the future.

So many questions in one post, please dont mind.

Crazy88

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Old 15th October 2008, 11:29   #552
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Originally Posted by crazy88 View Post
...
  1. I am not going to install a big ICE in my Verna in near future (not at least for next 6 months, even if I do, budget will be in 30K). I am doing damping only because I want a quiet environment inside my car, like inside a luxury car. So is it advisable to do damping, just only for this?
  2. How much it costs for doing full damping in Trivandrum or Cochin?
  3. Do you know any good place where I can get it done?
  4. Very soon, I will be going to Dubai. Do you think, I can get damping material more cheap there? If so, can you recommend a good material, shop in Dubai?
...
1. Yes, it makes a lot of sense to get damping done even if you don't listen to music at high volumes. Damping will remove the irritating buzzes, rattles and panel self-resonance
2. Depending on how much area you want to cover, expect to spend about 5-7K
3. PM the Kochi / Thiruvananthapuram TBHPians - hydrashok, speedzak, greenhorn, ... they would be able to suggest
4. Damping material is unlikely to cheaper in Dubai. Also, it is likely to be a luggage headache.
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Old 15th October 2008, 13:29   #553
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crazy88 View Post
  1. I am not going to install a big ICE in my Verna in near future (not at least for next 6 months, even if I do, budget will be in 30K). I am doing damping only because I want a quiet environment inside my car, like inside a luxury car. So is it advisable to do damping, just only for this?
  2. How much it costs for doing full damping in Trivandrum or Cochin?
  3. Do you know any good place where I can get it done?
  4. Very soon, I will be going to Dubai. Do you think, I can get damping material more cheap there? If so, can you recommend a good material, shop in Dubai?
1) Yes, Damping will help quite a bit in the noise-reduction dept. I recently had a short ICE Audition in a fully damped Swift. Fully meaning FULLY - every bit of metal seen from the inside of the car was damped. I'd seen the job being done a week before the install was complete -- the seats, carpet roof-liner, plastic trim etc were taken out and every square inch was damped. The owner was charged about 26K for the damping job. The material used was the silver webbed damping material we see commonly in the install pics on TBHP (I have the same stuff in my Swift).

Now coming to the results, the car was noticeably quieter inside. Road noise was noticeably lesser (I could compare with the road noise in my Swift, before my damping job was done). The car wasn't exactly dead silent inside, but the road noise was very very less. The car had a very good ICE setup in it (Alpine 9887, Rainbow SLX comps front & back, Rainbow Hammer sub, Alpine amps) and the ICE sounded great. And the "legendary" rattles and creaks of the Swift were absent (the car was 8 to 10 months old).

I had the same experience with my Installer's Innova, damped 100% with Dynamat Extreme *gulp* (and that car is a diesel car).

About whether 100% damping is advisable, I would say not, unless you plan on a good ICE setup too. To cut road noise, I would use damping sheets in the firewall area (from inside the car) and use some thick carpet material on the floor, under the regular carpet. A WUERTH underbody coating is also supposed to help (haven't experienced it firsthand yet) in the noise reduction dept also (other than the underbody protection thing).

The Verna is a great car to ICE (*hint, hint*) and you should not normally have rattling issues.

2) 26K (approx.) for 100% damping in a Swift. Should be about the same for a Verna (it inherently needs less damping).

3) In TVM, no place I know of. In Kochi, I'd suggest Emperor (Palarivattom, near Varkey's). The installer there will see what is required and do only what is necessary. You may not need to go the whole hog and do the entire 26K damping job. Tell him what you need and he'll let you know what is required. Another option is EndEffect (near Reniassance Hotel, Palarivattom). I don't have personal experience with EndEffect, but quite a few Kochi BHPians are familiar with his work and they recommend him highly.

4) Damping material maybe cheaper in Dubai, but I doubt you will be able to get it down here very easily because of the bulk. The material I mentioned (used here) works out cheaper I think.
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Old 15th October 2008, 14:00   #554
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Any idea where to get Wurth or Dynamat in Cochin other than emperor and End Effect or who is the distributor for these stuff in south ? might need some for my swift
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Old 15th October 2008, 17:44   #555
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Don't know who deals in Wuerth in Cochin. And frankly I think the stuff Emperor uses or the damping material available from B&T branded as Noise Kill is as good as Wuerth and more VFM at that.

These are some addresses and ph. nos I copied off TBHP a long time back:

Quote:
Bettina Würth Auto India Pvt Ltd
4. Hoboken Depot, Jain Kunj, Kolkata 700 088
+91 33 24 392 458 +91 33 24 394 152
e-Mail: sales@wuerth.co.in

Marion Würth India Pvt Ltd
Plot no 506, 1st Floor, Patparganj Industrial Area, Delhi
+91 11 430 121 58 +91 11 221 611 57
e-Mail: marionwuerthindia@airtelbroadband.in

Reinhold Wuerth India Pvt. Ltd.
Plot No. 139, Door No. 104, Secretariat Colony 9th Street, Kilpauk, Chennai
+91 44 253 234 54 +91 44 253 234 53
e-Mail: info@wurth.co.in

Wuerth Elektronik India Pvt. Ltd.
5th floor, North Block, Stock Exchange Towers, #51, J C Road, Bangalore
+91 80 51 531 636 +91 80 51 142 698
e-Mail: info@naavinja.com

Wuerth India Private Limited,
"Sainik Gaurav", Plot No.10/2, Sector 18, 90 Feet Road, Airoli, Navi Mumbai +91 22 65 170 334

Wuerth Industrial Services India Pvt. Ltd.
Gat. No. 2337/1, Behind Pune Trade Centre
Pune - Nagar Road, Wagholi, Tal. Haveli
+91 20 56 424 111 +91 20 56 424 200
I think the EndEffect guy uses Dynamat (not too sure of that though).
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