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Old 7th May 2013, 15:40   #76
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Default Re: Skoda Rapid Warranty Issues: ICE blamed for Power Window Failure

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Originally Posted by ninjatalli View Post
... I have repeatedly asked for and have never been given an official VW accessories list. All I have obtained are dealer-based accessory list, vouched by the dealer stating these are "VW-authorized".
One can replace VW with any other car manufacturer's name, and your statement will be true.

I have had the *same* experience with Maruti, Hyundai and TML (the cars I have owned) and the resultant expression was ... the *same*!!! This was over a period of 20 years with various dealers (names unimportant here) in Bangalore. I stopped to think when I heard it for the first time, and it didn't seem logical to me. The first time, even I had bought something from the dealer (it was convenient), but I took their expression with a pinch of salt. Later, when I delved deeper, it seemed an endemic issue with Indian dealers. Only the TML guys, when asked that simple logical question, smiled and said "You can get it installed anywhere sir, not a problem. It might be cheaper also"!!!

I have bought cars in Germany (VW) and US (Ford) - and I never faced such expressions there. They only told me to ensure that the connections are made through the connector provided - that's all. They never pushed what they had - they just said "you can find plenty of stuff in ..." for example Media Markt in Germany and Best Buy / Fry's in US, and helpfully said "they will install it for free too!". Nice!
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Old 7th May 2013, 18:29   #77
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Default Re: Skoda Rapid Warranty Issues: ICE blamed for Power Window Failure

I never click on ICE section threads, so I am not aware of your issue. If you have some unresolved issue with DerAlte, I suggest you take it up with him via PM. He might provide the details you seek. Do not violate Rule# 14 again.
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Old 7th May 2013, 19:34   #78
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Default Re: Skoda Rapid Warranty Issues: ICE blamed for Power Window Failure

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Originally Posted by greatmana2000 View Post
... Buy a skoda only if you want to waste time with the claims dept , courts etc . Otherwise just stick to what the stock car has ...
You are entitled to your (and @veyronsupersprt's) views - nobody said anything against it. In the same coin, you are expected to respect others' views, which principle seems to have been forgotten by you.

The rest of the world believes in meaningful dialog between manufacturer and buyer, and that method works much better than passive acceptance of unjust impositions and questionable ethics. It is a simple principle that was proven in this thread, as in many other threads on TBHP. Wonder what causes so much vehemence against it?

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... I suggest you take it up with him via PM. He might provide the details you seek. Do not violate Rule# 14 again.
* Please don't vitiate the congenial atmosphere of the Forum for reasons related to personal ego
* Please understand you are spoiling a thread with unconnected arguments and unrelated discussions and provocations - all to vent your ire at a personal level
* If you are in doubt, please re-read the Forum Rules once again

Last edited by DerAlte : 15th May 2013 at 10:31. Reason: Cleaning up OT stuff
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Old 8th May 2013, 10:16   #79
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Default Re: Skoda Rapid Warranty Issues: ICE blamed for Power Window Failure

ok .. food for thought ..

Any car wiring harness starts at the battery , then the main power connector is directly connected to the key and from the key the harness is split into connections for the head lights , power windows , stereo etc . Then there are some connections which are directly connected to the battery like the auto lock etc .

Now , the OP case is different as he was just running the speaker wires tagged to the power window motor .. the company cannot deny warranty .. but
The stereo is connected to the wiring harness which is in turn connected to the power windows also . The main power line branched off to connect the power windows , stereo , 12v socket etc .This is the most important part .... the company can simply deny the warranty as "technically speaking it is not their part or they can even go to the extent of saying that the stereo caused the malfunction .

When you buy at a dealership technically they are supposed to be trained at the factory , they have an installation procedure to be followed and thus the warranty is not void . whether the dealership follows the procedure or not is a different question .. but the parent company cannot deny warranty in such cases ..

Mod Note: Please avoid typing with excessive dots.........like................this.
Mod Note: Use spaces only after punctuation marks, not before". It improves readability of posts.

Last edited by khan_sultan : 8th May 2013 at 15:49. Reason: Warning for dotty posts & punctuation
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Old 8th May 2013, 10:30   #80
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Default Re: Skoda Rapid Warranty Issues: ICE blamed for Power Window Failure

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Originally Posted by greatmana2000 View Post
ok .. food for thought ..
When you buy at a dealership technically they are supposed to be trained at the factory , they have an installation procedure to be followed and thus the warranty is not void . whether the dealership follows the procedure or not is a different question .. but the parent company cannot deny warranty in such cases ..
They are trained from company , i doubt it and i can vouch for it they do much messier work then a outside reputed ICE dealer . If you see the work done on skoda , it was done very professorially . There are regulators and relays in wire system which protects everything from overdrawing and supply of power from battery to different components . If there was a problem then why the other motor didn't conked off . Maximum people at dealership who installs ICE are from outside , contracts are offered at dealership to outside vendor for same .
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Old 8th May 2013, 11:17   #81
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Default Re: Skoda Rapid Warranty Issues: ICE blamed for Power Window Failure

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Originally Posted by greatmana2000 View Post
ok .. food for thought ..

Any car wiring harness starts at the battery , then the main power connector is directly connected to the key and from the key the harness is split into connections for the head lights , power windows , stereo etc . Then there are some connections which are directly connected to the battery like the auto lock etc .

Now , the OP case is different as he was just running the speaker wires tagged to the power window motor .. the company cannot deny warranty .. but
The stereo is connected to the wiring harness which is in turn connected to the power windows also . The main power line branched off to connect the power windows , stereo , 12v socket etc .This is the most important part .... the company can simply deny the warranty as "technically speaking it is not their part or they can even go to the extent of saying that the stereo caused the malfunction .

When you buy at a dealership technically they are supposed to be trained at the factory , they have an installation procedure to be followed and thus the warranty is not void . whether the dealership follows the procedure or not is a different question .. but the parent company cannot deny warranty in such cases ..
By this argument, if you charge your phone off the 12V socket, you are connecting an external electronic device and your warranty is void??

And speaking of Stereo, just like all wiring harness, the stereo wiring harness is protected by its fuse. So you have a AC fuse, fuse for dome lights, fuse for headlamp switch, fuse for brake lights, fuse for starter......
If any component, including your dome lights, has a fault and draws more current the fuse will blow. Thats the purpose of the fuse. Otherwise a faulty phone charger will cause a meltdown.
I got Stereo fitted outside for the liva. Not a single wire had to be cut. Speakers were already there in the doors, and there was a connector. The installer simply did plug-in and everything was working. Even for the antenna, there was a socket and wire provided. Nothing needed to be cut.
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Old 8th May 2013, 11:46   #82
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Default Re: Skoda Rapid Warranty Issues: ICE blamed for Power Window Failure

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Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
By this argument, if you charge your phone off the 12V socket, you are connecting an external electronic device and your warranty is void??

And speaking of Stereo, just like all wiring harness, the stereo wiring harness is protected by its fuse. So you have a AC fuse, fuse for dome lights, fuse for headlamp switch, fuse for brake lights, fuse for starter......
If any component, including your dome lights, has a fault and draws more current the fuse will blow. Thats the purpose of the fuse. Otherwise a faulty phone charger will cause a meltdown.
I got Stereo fitted outside for the liva. Not a single wire had to be cut. Speakers were already there in the doors, and there was a connector. The installer simply did plug-in and everything was working. Even for the antenna, there was a socket and wire provided. Nothing needed to be cut.

Cpnnecting to a socket is a different thing .. as the intention is to let the customer connect a phone charger or any other consumer accessories . In some cars there is also a limit of power that you can draw from the sockets . If you happen to draw more power the fuse will blow ... as it mostly does . But .. some smart "electricians " do not use the same rating or the quality .I have always found it next to impossible for me to get the same quality of fuses from the shops other than the dealerships They just use a higher rating fuse and fry the wires due to over draw .. that also does happen .

Now coming to stereos .. basic point is you are trying to get connections from the wiring harness and the manufacturer expects someone who is trained by them to work on the harness and not some roadside ICE guy . Obviously they do not expect someone without training would know about the wiring connections ..( i know it is simple straight forward stuff to wire a stereo )..
Incase of a wrong wiring there are definite chances of triggering the relay for the window motor and eventually the motor can get fried as well .
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Old 8th May 2013, 16:45   #83
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Default Re: Skoda Rapid Warranty Issues: ICE blamed for Power Window Failure

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Originally Posted by DerAlte View Post

nor does an "Approved Accessories List" exist.
The Approved Accessories List has been put up under a separate thread under Technical Stuff for the benefit of other team bhp members.

Last edited by DerAlte : 8th May 2013 at 17:36. Reason: Offensive and irrelevant parts removed
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Old 8th May 2013, 21:57   #84
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Default Re: Skoda Rapid Warranty Issues: ICE blamed for Power Window Failure

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Originally Posted by DerAlte View Post
]
Please do put in some effort in updating yourself with a diagram of connections in a car (electrical schematic), before making assumptions and worse - suggesting how it is and what would happen. F
DerAlte,

Pardon my ignorance, but at a high-level I am able to infer from your posts that there multiple individual electrical circuits in a car (in this case Skoda), and some of them are independent of each other. Could you highlight at a high-level what they are and more importantly what components they consists of?

For example:
1) Stereo - dashlights - instrument cluster
2) Headlights - indicator - taillights

I am trying to understand what mods could lead to what other potential failures.

If it is too elaborate please dont bother, if it is something simple a high-level overview will be great.

Thanks in advance,

Azeem
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Old 8th May 2013, 22:37   #85
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Default Re: Skoda Rapid Warranty Issues: ICE blamed for Power Window Failure

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Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
By this argument, if you charge your phone off the 12V socket, you are connecting an external electronic device and your warranty is void??

And speaking of Stereo, just like all wiring harness, the stereo wiring harness is protected by its fuse. So you have a AC fuse, fuse for dome lights, fuse for headlamp switch, fuse for brake lights, fuse for starter......
If any component, including your dome lights, has a fault and draws more current the fuse will blow. Thats the purpose of the fuse. Otherwise a faulty phone charger will cause a meltdown.
I got Stereo fitted outside for the liva. Not a single wire had to be cut. Speakers were already there in the doors, and there was a connector. The installer simply did plug-in and everything was working. Even for the antenna, there was a socket and wire provided. Nothing needed to be cut.
I 100% concur with what you are saying, Let me list out the after market accessories in my car which I have not got fixed at the service station or a Maruti Showroom and never has my warranty being void or even remotely close to being nullified.

Alloy Wheels - 14 inchers with offset of 42 ( Company spec alloys have 42 Offset)

External Hella FF's

Stereo system which was completely purchased and fixed outside.

Things replaced related to electricals and steering in warranty.

1) Whole steering system worth 27 thousand replaced at 45 thousand kilometres because damper noise would not go. No questions about alloys asked

2) Rear Power window motor replaced as it was not doing its job at 50 K - Replaced, no questions on stereo or any kind asked.

Stereo system and Power window motors have no connection, zilch. There are fuses everywhere to protect any kind surge in power if any.

What the Skoda guy at the service station is going to do is what EVO guy did during the music system installation. This can be judged by the fact that no wires were cut and connectors were used.

I personally believe this has got everything to do with the Company as much as it has got to do with the folks at the service station.

'We ll try to shun away from warranty replacements wherever possible' seems to be the idea.
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Old 8th May 2013, 23:46   #86
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Default Re: Skoda Rapid Warranty Issues: ICE blamed for Power Window Failure

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Originally Posted by azeemhafiz View Post
... that there multiple individual electrical circuits in a car (in this case Skoda), and some of them are independent of each other. ...
Yes, there are multiple individual circuits, in any car. Not 'some of them' - ALL of them. I really don't have to give a high level overview, since these independent circuits - each with its own fuse - are listed a. on the Fuse Box covers and b. in the user manual of the vehicle.

Some equipments are controlled through the Ignition Key 'signal' - usually called ACC for Accessory. Modern cars route power through relays, with the relay being controlled by the ignition key state. The Ignition key itself doesn't carry heavy current. All electrical equipment other than the starter motor are supposed to cease drawing current during cranking - signalled by ACC. This is done simply by dropping the ACC to 0V - switching off appropriate circuits, which causes some accessories to power off, and some, like the HU, to go to idle state (powered but externally inactive).

If one circuit malfunctions, for example overdraws current for some reason, only that circuit's fuse blows thus isolating that circuit. If an electrical equipment malfunctions WITHOUT the fuse having blown, it is usually a Part failure, due most likely to internal material failure in that equipment / part.

However, it is possible for wires of unrelated circuits to short to each and possibly to Ground IF those wires are running near each other in an area where some metal is scraping against insulation and stripping it. Especially if wire insulation becomes brittle, but it takes a few years for that to happen. Rare, but can happen. Usually the fuse blows in all the circuits involved, but in extremely rarer cases this can lead to localized overheating and fire hazard. That is why cables and harness are anchored properly by car manufacturer. Any decent installer also knows that, and ensures correct routing and anchoring. Not rocket science.

Last edited by DerAlte : 15th May 2013 at 10:33.
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Old 10th May 2013, 00:48   #87
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Default Re: Skoda Rapid Warranty Issues: ICE blamed for Power Window Failure

Please don't get me wrong, I'm not to jump into a debate; but I have this confusion.

Do we get warranty if we service (the regular ones) our new cars outside the ASC, even though it was done exactly as per standards and schedule? I was thinking that this was similar to fitting/replacing accessories (not the plug and play options provided to the customer) outside ASC.
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Old 10th May 2013, 09:30   #88
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Default Re: Skoda Rapid Warranty Issues: ICE blamed for Power Window Failure

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Do we get warranty if we service (the regular ones) our new cars outside the ASC, even though it was done exactly as per standards and schedule?
It depends on how your relations are with the authorized dealer and chances are that the relations are not so good thats why you went at outside garage, or the relations are going to worsen since you are getting the job done at outside garages.

But logically they can void the warranty in such case since they don't know, neither they have any record/proof that all the scheduled jobs have been done, that too on time during the service and genuine spare parts used.

If you want to enjoy full warranty benefits, better to stick with authorized dealer/ASC till the warranty period is over.

Last edited by tbppjpr : 10th May 2013 at 09:33.
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Old 10th May 2013, 16:23   #89
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Default Re: Skoda Rapid Warranty Issues: ICE blamed for Power Window Failure

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Originally Posted by thoma View Post
Please don't get me wrong, I'm not to jump into a debate; but I have this confusion.

Do we get warranty if we service (the regular ones) our new cars outside the ASC, even though it was done exactly as per standards and schedule? I was thinking that this was similar to fitting/replacing accessories (not the plug and play options provided to the customer) outside ASC.
Not in India. In the USA there was an act passed to allow customers to get their cars serviced anywhere. However in India, companies monopolize service, which is an unfair trade practice.
Its a long way to the age when consumers will have real rights here.
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Old 15th May 2013, 16:37   #90
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Default FINAL UPDATE: Skoda Rapid Warranty Issues: ICE blamed for Power Window Failure

My apologies for the delay in updating the outcome.

Skoda has finally replaced the power window as per warranty. To see only zeroes in the bill was just sweet . I must say that It was a pleasant surprise to see the follow up calls from Skoda India, . All in all , I received 4 phone calls from Skoda India to check if I was satisfied with the resolution and the dealer also was very courteous and had the replacement done on priority.

Overall, am a happy camper.

I must place on record my immense gratitude to this forum for both the technical and moral support from the members in particular Der Alte ( for the kick in the rear for me to get moving ) and nitin bose for his inputs. Thank you guys, it was an education for me to say the least.

Thank you again.

As am based in Yercaud, a holiday destination for many from south india. I take this oppurtunity to welcome you to Yercaud. It will be a pleasure to have some coffee by the lakeside. Treat is on me !
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