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Old 23rd April 2013, 15:01   #1
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Default Skoda Rapid Warranty Issues: ICE blamed for Power Window Failure

Hi ,

Am from salem, tamilnadu and I own a year old Skoda rapid ambient version.

Recently the power widow switch console on the drivers side stopped working. I gave the car for repair on 22nd April, and the service advisor said that the main motor has conked off and the same will be replaced under warranty as the warranty is still available for another year, for which I agreed and asked them to process the same. However, by evening the service advisor called back and said that the warranty will not be applicable as I have installed a music system.

Now , I had installed a music system at Evo - Bangalore and had taken sufficient care to ensure that the original wires are not cut or tampered in any way. It is my understanding that as long as the original wires and parts are not tampered with the warranty is not affected. However, the Skoda dealer says that Skoda does not entertain any warranty claims if any 3 party components are installed.

I find it ridiculous to void warranty just because a music system is installed despite the fact that the original wiring is intact and not tampered with.

Does anyone have any similar experience , I need a little help / advice from you fellow brothers as to how to tackle this issue.
Thanks
Murali
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Old 23rd April 2013, 16:23   #2
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Default Re: Skoda Rapid Warranty Issues: ICE blamed for Power Window Failure

The Service guy is talking utter nonsense. Ask him to show in the Warranty where is the clause about Warranty being void if accessories are added. He knows zilch about electricals and electrical wiring, and even less about Warranty clauses.

The window regulator / winder motor burning out is a primary component fault in that motor. This motor is controlled from a Chassis Electronics module via the switches on the doorpad.

The ICE system is fed from a COMPLETELY DIFFERENT wire branch which doesn't even run anywhere near the chassis electronics module. There is no 12V DC line in the wires going to the door from the HU or the amp (if you have one). The only wires that go to the door are the speaker wires. So there is NOTHING in the ICE system that can cause the motor to burn out.

If there was a problem - ANYWHERE other than the motor itself - ask the gentleman WHY DIDN'T THE ACCESSORIES OR ANY OTHER FUSE BLOW? He wouldn't have an answer, or quite likely will give you some even more imaginative answers.
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Old 23rd April 2013, 16:35   #3
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Default Re: Skoda Rapid Warranty Issues: ICE blamed for Power Window Failure

Skoda seems to continue its notoriety. There seem to be cases like this. Maybe the owners could pour in in-depth experience and how to deal with this.

There are couple actions you can begin with:
1. Ascertain that your ICE install has indeed not compromised the mechanism in anyway, by way of even minute cut/patch up of wires. Make yourself safe first. Usually it is indeed plug and play these days with specific connectors doing the job.

2. Get in writing from them that this is indeed the warranty clause and ask them to point to particular clause in the warranty terms and condition that directly says so or even implies remotely. Any dealers are known to fleece customers if there is a chance and avoid warranty claims as that reduces their income even if by a Rupee. Take time to read finer prints, these people are too smart to take advantage of even smallest of the hints be in warranty or out of warranty due to their own damage.

3. I have not come across any such warranty clause voiding due to any additional installs that do not tamper other mechanisms.

If there is no warranty clause that translates to this denial there is no way they should be able to keep their stand. Be firm on your ground and give them some dose of technical know-how in case they start acting smart.

In worst case, you should raise it directly to the Skoda customer care and try to get it highlighted strongly and resolved.

4. Personally check the car at the dealership and take lots of pics for proof of the malfunction and your ICE installs and any correlation that they may be trying to make technically.
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Old 23rd April 2013, 17:56   #4
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Default Re: Skoda Rapid Warranty Issues: ICE blamed for Power Window Failure

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Skoda seems to continue its notoriety. ...
It is not Skoda the car maker who is to blame here.

It is the dealers who assume extra-constitutional powers directly, coupled with 'uneducated' personnel at the service locations. You will never find the properly trained 'first job' guys who talk like this. It the is 'old battle hardened horses' who came from other workshops who indulge in such completely needless one-up-manship.
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Old 23rd April 2013, 18:00   #5
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Default Re: Skoda Rapid Warranty Issues: ICE blamed for Power Window Failure

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Originally Posted by veeru27 View Post
Hi ,

Am from salem, tamilnadu and I own a year old Skoda rapid ambient version.
However, the Skoda dealer says that Skoda does not entertain any warranty claims if any 3 party components are installed.

I find it ridiculous to void warranty just because a music system is installed despite the fact that the original wiring is intact and not tampered with.
Can you mention the dealer and city?
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Old 23rd April 2013, 18:05   #6
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Default Re: Skoda Rapid Warranty Issues: ICE blamed for Power Window Failure

Hi Veeru,

This is usual of Skoda dealers. Which dealer did you take the car to? I had installed amps and sub in my Laura and was faced with a similar issue.

There is a sentence in the warranty document which they misuse against us, "unauthorized accessories/modifications will void warranty". So if the dealers find anything outside of OEM, they'll use this against us and deny warranty.

The service teams have absolutely no idea and are finding ways and means to deny warranty because they're making humongous profits through spares selling.

Unfortunately, Skoda India seems to go hand in glove with them.

Do let me know if you with to escalate this issue as I can join hands with you! Surely, somebody needs to teach them a lesson.

Skoda - Why don't you make money through ethical means?
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Old 23rd April 2013, 18:10   #7
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Default Re: Skoda Rapid Warranty Issues: ICE blamed for Power Window Failure

^^ I would have to disagree with DerAlte@ here. Dealer is a representative of the manufacturer. Although they are different companies (Franchise) but still its the manufacturer's responsibility to ensure folks at the dealership are trained to handle technical cases like these.

Looking at it the other way around. The maximum impact this news would have is on the manufacturer, the guy would blame Skoda, the take away from readers like us would be to try and stay away from Skoda. Hence for them it becomes more than responsibility to have right training so as to ensure these dealer misadventures are non-existent.

Last edited by mayankjha1806 : 23rd April 2013 at 18:11.
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Old 23rd April 2013, 18:39   #8
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Default Re: Skoda Rapid Warranty Issues: ICE blamed for Power Window Failure

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Originally Posted by DerAlte View Post
It is not Skoda the car maker who is to blame here.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mayankjha1806 View Post
^^ I would have to disagree with DerAlte@ here. Dealer is a representative of the manufacturer. Although they are different companies (Franchise) but still its the manufacturer's responsibility to ensure folks at the dealership are trained to handle technical cases like these.
I do feel quite strongly here and I expressed the same in http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/indian...ml#post3070094 as well.

Without the proper governance of the manufacturers, it is often the case that the dealerships take simple customers for a ride and get away with it easily. Since the Principal manufacturer's name is at stake, it is more the case for the manufacturer to see these acts are not done by its dealerships and the the core responsibility should be levied on the manufacturer. If they make sure that their hierarchy is true to its motto, these dealerships would always have fear of doing such acts to the customers. As customers I feel, we have a responsibility to educate the same to other customers and make them aware.

To be frank, I am not blaming Skoda per se on such counts. It can be any manufacturer, even Toyota or Honda for that matter, customers should not get bogged down by their stature and what they claim in the name of quality and customership. That makes me really wonder if indeed Toyota and Honda do not have such untold stories.
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Old 23rd April 2013, 18:47   #9
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Default Re: Skoda Rapid Warranty Issues: ICE blamed for Power Window Failure

Hi Everyone,

Here's the Skoda international facebook page where they seem to hear us:

https://www.facebook.com/skoda?hc_location=stream

I guess we should share our feedback over here.

Coming back to your issue:

1. What was the output of the VAS scan? Did it give any error?
2. How was it concluded that the motor is faulty, did the engineer connect an external 12V power to the motor to cross-check?
3. How about the switches and the path the glass travels, are they both clear?

Last edited by nitinbose : 23rd April 2013 at 18:54.
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Old 24th April 2013, 08:52   #10
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Default Re: Skoda Rapid Warranty Issues: ICE blamed for Power Window Failure

Hi bhpians,

I have started posting on the above facebook page of Skoda, so that they may be aware of Skoda India & its dealers malpractices. I sincerely request other affected bhpians to join hands!

I'm sure, together we can make a difference
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Old 24th April 2013, 09:40   #11
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Default Re: Skoda Rapid Warranty Issues: ICE blamed for Power Window Failure

@veeru27, please post this case on that FB page to see if it really helps.

but, technically, we should find out the facts on our own (as owners) - Even if you mess up the wiring, the fuse should blow first (may be it did?)
Can you post the pictures of the fuse box, the blown power window motor and the wiring that it's being blamed on?
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Old 24th April 2013, 10:12   #12
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Default Re: Skoda Rapid Warranty Issues: ICE blamed for Power Window Failure

Quote:
Originally Posted by mayankjha1806 View Post
... Dealer is a representative of the manufacturer. Although they are different companies (Franchise) but still its the manufacturer's responsibility to ensure folks at the dealership are trained to handle technical cases like these. ...
Quote:
Originally Posted by parsh View Post
... Without the proper governance of the manufacturers, it is often the case that the dealerships take simple customers for a ride and get away with it easily. Since the Principal manufacturer's name is at stake, it is more the case for the manufacturer to see these acts are not done by its dealerships and the the core responsibility should be levied on the manufacturer. ...
These thoughts are nice as general philosophy, but generally only as effective as the many movements for prevention of corruption. Unless one removes the rogue elements at dealers (in most cases even the owner of the Dealership is unaware of such happenings), nothing will ever change. *All* car manufacturers have training programs in place, but it is not the trained personnel who are the trouble-makers. It is simple-minded rogues who make lives miserable for car owners - simply to prove to their managements "Sir, I earned so much extra money for you" for a possible bonus. Corruption is deep rooted in simple ways everywhere.

Even the manufacturers know such ambiguous statements written in a Warranty can cut both ways - and will be legally untenable if questioned. They know for sure that simple technical questioning and testing will prove that components were bad, down to possibly a simple & stupid failure of a switch.

Most TBHP members know their onions in car ownership and maintenance. It is not difficult to make Skoda sit up and take notice, and take the dealer to task - get the dealer to clean up their operations of such rogue elements.
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Old 24th April 2013, 10:24   #13
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Default Re: Skoda Rapid Warranty Issues: ICE blamed for Power Window Failure

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Originally Posted by DerAlte View Post
These thoughts are nice as general philosophy, but generally only as effective as the many movements for prevention of corruption. Unless one removes the rogue elements at dealers (in most cases even the owner of the Dealership is unaware of such happenings), nothing will ever change. *All* car manufacturers have training programs in place, but it is not the trained personnel who are the trouble-makers. It is simple-minded rogues who make lives miserable for car owners - simply to prove to their managements "Sir, I earned so much extra money for you" for a possible bonus. Corruption is deep rooted in simple ways everywhere.

Even the manufacturers know such ambiguous statements written in a Warranty can cut both ways - and will be legally untenable if questioned. They know for sure that simple technical questioning and testing will prove that components were bad, down to possibly a simple & stupid failure of a switch.

Most TBHP members know their onions in car ownership and maintenance. It is not difficult to make Skoda sit up and take notice, and take the dealer to task - get the dealer to clean up their operations of such rogue elements.
True, and sincerely appreciate your thoughts too.

The thing is those thoughts have to come into effect and should be made to come into effect by the manufacturers instead of each and every customer having to fight own case with the dealerships. Why at all a customer should be required to break own head on the wall? And we are not just talking of the Team-BHPians or any other automotive forum where people may be more knowledgeable than common public. However, even on such open forums we do find people who get such treatments inspite of all precautions one may take and knowledge one may have.

Also, the rouge elements are not only at shop-floor, SA level. Many a times it drills down from top of the hierarchy on how a issue should be treated with customers. I am sure that such things are translated to the lower hierarchy right from the levels of GM, Service atleast, if not from owner of the dealership. I can also say having seen some cases that they also drill down from the Manufacturer's Territory Management level, leave aside the dealership owner or management.

So, there is a reason to have some stringent measures from manufacturers as well as from Government Bodies to form some consortium to address such discrepancies in India. I think there are some such bodies and some regulations in force in some places around the world.

Last edited by parsh : 24th April 2013 at 10:26.
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Old 24th April 2013, 10:31   #14
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Default Re: Skoda Rapid Warranty Issues: ICE blamed for Power Window Failure

If it was done using just an adapter, the installation, why dont you just pop the OE stereo back in, and then get the switch fixed.
If no wires were cut, theres no way in hell they can say you came with a non-oe stereo last time. Blame your dog for the scratches.
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Old 24th April 2013, 11:19   #15
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Default Re: Skoda Rapid Warranty Issues: ICE blamed for Power Window Failure

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... I think there are some such bodies and some regulations in force in some places around the world.
The last effective one was an institution called Ralph Nader. The others are toothless. Japan / Japanese companies don't need one - customer consciousness is part of their culture. The Koreans are not far behind.

In India, perhaps the only thing that will work, if at all, is a "Wall of Shame". Ensuring Consumer rights cannot be the Govt's responsibility, which has done it's part by creating the institution called Consumer Courts.

However, such nonsense as the OP is facing definitely needs a different strategy and tactics.
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