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Old 11th October 2006, 21:46   #226
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rsjaurr
While my installer was installing door speakers,i was busy with dynamat and putting it on doors.I asked JB[on phone] that should i put dynamat over the panel and also cover the all the wires which r there on door panels.He told me that i need the damp the door and not wires.these r exactly same words which i still remember.
LBM,if i am not wrong u seem to have done which JB advised me not to do.

Other more important thing which i want experts to comment upon is about removing that platic sheet [used for water proffing the door panels]which we remove from door panels to install speakers or damping stuff.[In LBM's pictures no.3,4 and 5 we can see black adhsive material which was left there after removing that plastic sheet]
I did same thing for two doors but i while doing 3rd and 4rth door i removed the sheets 1st without removing that black adhesive material and put dynamat there and re-put the plastic sheet back on its original place.That way atleast my car's 2 doors were more protected from water entering in door panels and damaging speaker.

Below 1st pic is when i damaged the plastic sheet and installed dynamat and 2nd pic is when i put the sheet back after installing dynamat.I hope u can see dynamat through that plastic sheet though i am sorry for poor quality pics.
Sir I know I had done it over the wire...but what big differnce will it make...the main power window wire is outside and the other wire is so thin that is underneth the damping sheet....and is clipped nicely over the whole track...so i though not to remove it from the mounting and apply the sheet over it....so i dont think it is a very huge mistake on the damping part....and the end result the sound is coming fine......also u can appreciate the DIY effort....

about the pastic sheet I have removed it fully as it will not make much of a differnce...and it cannot protect the speaker for water as it mainly enters from the window beading from the outside and the door drain hole if the road is flooded...not from the door panel....the reason the plastic sheet is installed in the door is that dust does not goes in the door and a little for water because water does not enter from where the plastice sheet is installed.....



I agree with mugen the plastice sheet viberates at certain songs or we can say at a certain freq ......so it is better to remove it all as the dyanamat would do no justice as the plastic sheet is not damped with . the sheet is lying over the sheet ......

Last edited by low_bass_makker : 11th October 2006 at 22:02.
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Old 11th October 2006, 23:17   #227
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rsjaurr
In my case,there is no such problem,probably dynamat extreme is taking care of that.And i cant see why it should rattle and that too at low volume.
As Told By LBM Also it may rattle at loud volume or at certain freq.

Cheers,
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Old 12th October 2006, 14:18   #228
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rsjaurr
I just want to share something which i noticed but i never discussed it here while installing dynamat extreme in my car's door panels.

While my installer was installing door speakers,i was busy with dynamat and putting it on doors.I asked JB[on phone] that should i put dynamat over the panel and also cover the all the wires which r there on door panels.He told me that i need the damp the door and not wires.these r exactly same words which i still remember.
LBM,if i am not wrong u seem to have done which JB advised me not to do.

Other more important thing which i want experts to comment upon is about removing that platic sheet [used for water proffing the door panels]which we remove from door panels to install speakers or damping stuff.[In LBM's pictures no.3,4 and 5 we can see black adhsive material which was left there after removing that plastic sheet]
I did same thing for two doors but i while doing 3rd and 4rth door i removed the sheets 1st without removing that black adhesive material and put dynamat there and re-put the plastic sheet back on its original place.That way atleast my car's 2 doors were more protected from water entering in door panels and damaging speaker.

Below 1st pic is when i damaged the plastic sheet and installed dynamat and 2nd pic is when i put the sheet back after installing dynamat.I hope u can see dynamat through that plastic sheet though i am sorry for poor quality pics.[taken with my old Moto E365 cam phone]
Rsjaurr, your concerns are well directed. These are problems faced when damping a car which is not completely stripped. The ideal time for damping a car is usually when the car is in a garage for a full-paint job or so, so all the fittings have been taken out and the metal is completely bare. This cannot be done in LBMs case, so I am sure he is accomodating accordingly.

There is no rule to cover, uncover wires. Most wires don't get damaged as it is, and usually troubleshooting in wired circuits takes place at junctions like sockets, relays etc, rather than the actual wire unless there's a short-circuit and the wire jacket melts, or rodents eat it, or it breaks due to some physical reasons. By covering it with damping, there could actually be some additional protection for the wire underneath. When JB tells you over the phone to avoid covering wires, he means to tell you probably that you should not do it since you probably wouldn't be able to take a call on exactly what to cover and what not. This makes things easier for you. For example, it would be totally wrong to apply damping mats on movable mechanical linkages like ones attached to the door-opening handle etc. Although I'm sure you would know better than to do that, it's just a more cautious approach.

The transparent polythene cover serves exactly the purpose that LBM mentioned. It's not for water seeping in through the window, because even if it did, there's hardly anything to be damaged on the inside of the cover unless your door panel is a primitive board-based one. Also, if the front speakers play a reasonable amount of bass, the plastic will do what a plastic bag held near a port will do. Flutter.
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Old 12th October 2006, 15:11   #229
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bass&Trouble
Flutter.
this is the accurrate word for it.....
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Old 12th October 2006, 15:17   #230
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Nice job LBM. Good to see your system progressing further.
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Old 12th October 2006, 15:27   #231
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Quote:
Originally Posted by navin
Nice job LBM .
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Kapasi
Nice job LBM. Good to see your system progressing further.
Thanks...........but it is still a long way to go.....
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Old 12th October 2006, 16:23   #232
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LBM,i really appreciate ur DIY efforts like many other.No way i was trying to downplay ur efforts.
I just wanted if gurus can comment on my thoughts andalso share something which i noticed while DIYing myself.I am not telling anyone to follow only these and not anything else.
This was my 1st install and most probably the last one as well.

About damping over the wires,i have the feeling that its very logical to not to do it over the wires[JB dint tell me this] coz to achieve desired results after damping,the damping material needs to be in contact with metal part,and if contact is broken [as it will happen if dynamat is installed over wires] desired result would not be achieved.


About 4-5 days back b4 i posted my post 222,i checked my all door spk using balance+fader from HU for any rattle and unwanted noise.Thankfully there was none.
B&T,dont u think install is done in wrong way if this transparent moisture sheet flutters coz there should ideally be no leakage of air to sides??

Quote:
Originally Posted by LBM
about the pastic sheet I have removed it fully as it will not make much of a differnce...and it cannot protect the speaker for water as it mainly enters from the window beading from the outside and the door drain hole if the road is flooded...not from the door panel....the reason the plastic sheet is installed in the door is that dust does not goes in the door and a little for water because water does not enter from where the plastice sheet is installed.....
Thats what i meant.We r going to encounter more rainy days when there r more chances or water leakage but hardly any day when our whole car including door panels just submerge in rain water.In the pic of LBM's post 226,there r 3 holes in door panels and water/dust can easily go inside towards back and damage spk or something else.

what i want to say is that if its not obstructing from achieving good end results [SQ or SPL],it should not be removed.This is even more important if u dont plan to damp all these holes as well which i did for 2 doors and then for next 2 doors i dint put dynamat over holes but instead i just folded about 1-2" of dynamat to the back at the margins of holes.This way i saved some of dynamat and put it on other parts of door.

I really would like experts like navin,sam,JB and Gunbir to comment as well in addition to B&T and LBM.
I hope i am not wasting my [and all of urs] precious time by posting just stupid thoughts/ideas and LBM i again repeat my this and last post is not in response to ur pics and posts.Like u,i also wanted to share something with all u guys.

Last edited by rsjaurr : 12th October 2006 at 16:25.
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Old 12th October 2006, 17:05   #233
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rsjaurr
This was my 1st install and most probably the last one as well.
Whoa! Why?

Quote:
Originally Posted by rsjaurr
About damping over the wires,i have the feeling that its very logical to not to do it over the wires[JB dint tell me this] coz to achieve desired results after damping,the damping material needs to be in contact with metal part,and if contact is broken [as it will happen if dynamat is installed over wires] desired result would not be achieved.
Damping over wires isn't going to leave out more than a few mm undamped. It will not have a substantial effect. Besides the damping sheet will curve and wrap around the wire, and the only area left will be the small footprint of the wire touching the metal. If Navin would have his way, he'd say it would be better to have different levels of damping this way on the metal, because it would help in breaking down the resonances. Again, I'm not saying this, Navin is! (I can almost feel his sentiments lingering in my mind)


Quote:
Originally Posted by rsjaurr
B&T,dont u think install is done in wrong way if this transparent moisture sheet flutters coz there should ideally be no leakage of air to sides??
??? Means ??? Doesn't air pressure equally propogate in the available volume, which in our case is the door, walled in partly by the transparent moisture sheet? Some 'Rascal' deduced this, I think. Either that, or you drive a Tata Indica and I don't.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rsjaurr
In the pic of LBM's post 226,there r 3 holes in door panels and water/dust can easily go inside towards back and damage spk or something else.
But can't moisture and rain-water damage the speaker in any case from the back? Not like there's some transparent moisture sheet behind it??
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Old 12th October 2006, 17:30   #234
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rsjaurr
About 4-5 days back b4 i posted my post 222,i checked my all door spk using balance+fader from HU for any rattle and unwanted noise.Thankfully there was none.
B&T,dont u think install is done in wrong way if this transparent moisture sheet flutters coz there should ideally be no leakage of air to sides??
Sir did you used listened to the sound at full range ..... that is with the mids and high then it will be very hard to judge that is there any vibration there....try this..play some bass test with freq ranging 60-120 Hz or even sine wave in the above mentioned range can do the trick then there would be some freq at which the door panel or some thing else would start vibrate......then you can see what is rattling or fluttering .... right now only my door panel vibrate a bit because there is some plastic parts thanks to Maruti design team....which would be taken car soon enough......
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Old 13th October 2006, 12:31   #235
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a) the best way to check for vibrations is to do a sweep test. many moons ago Stereophile mag released a CD which such a sweep so all one had to do was play the CD. I am sure there will be versions of this on the intenet (Google can help).

b) damping using different matierals is usually the best way but that refers to multiple layers of damping. Keep in mind the materials used make a difference.

For example making a box out of 20mm MDF wont be as nonresonant as say making a box out of 6mm Ply, 2 x 3mm layers of FRP, and 1.5mm of lead sheet (total 13.5mm).

I have found that using rubbers of different shore hardness in a sandwich helps. Funnily different-layer-damping seems to work better at lower frequencies. My intuition tells me this might be something to do with the refractive and reflective properties of different wavelengths (from sub sonic to RF).
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Old 13th October 2006, 13:59   #236
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some sweeps and test tones can be downloaded from this site for the test....

http://realmofexcursion.com/downloads.htm

Last edited by low_bass_makker : 13th October 2006 at 14:01.
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Old 13th October 2006, 15:25   #237
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Why am I not surprised at LBM being the first to find a link.
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Old 13th October 2006, 19:20   #238
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Quote:
Originally Posted by navin
Why am I not surprised at LBM being the first to find a link.



Navin ji I am regular visitor of the above site....good info avalable there.....did not google it up.......
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Old 21st March 2007, 19:00   #239
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hmmm long time has passed so thought of updating the setup....in which majorly the amplification and the subs are going to be changed....

alpine 545 (125 x 4 ) for the front stage with 2 way active....with 2 channels for the midbasses and the 2 channels for the midrange and the tweeter....

a pair of alpine 1005 (1000x 1)for the sub section driving a pair of pioneer 3004 spl subs....

this was the old setup which has be all sold off and none of the above stuff is there in my car...

now new amps has been purchased with right now the front stage running totally passive with 290 watts rms at 4 ohms each side right now but later it will be full 3-way active....and for the subs I am getting 1200 x 2 at 1 ohms to drive each sub.....

will keep you updated on the following with the pics and full report.....and which subs and amps are finilize so that i can be a LOW_BASS_MAKKER again.....
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Old 21st March 2007, 23:45   #240
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So, again it is all going to be all about BOOOOOOOM responsibly??
Waiting with all the patience to know about the amp and Sub!! (oooops, SUBS)!
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