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Old 27th April 2007, 10:45   #511
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Mono vs Stereo Bass

I have spent last night contemplating my earlier post (503). Trying to put a finger on what ciscumstances suited Mono Bass and when did Stereo Bass sound better and here are some very general conclusions/assumptions (all this is an educated guess so guys dont jump up and down if there are instances you can experienced that are contrary).

Disclaimer: These observations invloved dipping into my memory bank of expereinces. I have a resonably well trained ear and despite my senility am able to remember such experiences for longer than most people (sorry if this sounds arrogant). I will try to stick to terminaology that is laymanish.

I seem to prefer Mono Bass when in 5.1 where the heavy footfalls of the T-Rex in Jurassic Park needed to be felt or when you want to Shake the room with the sound of a Helicopter etc...

I also seem to prefer Mono Bass when the bass information is earth rattling and not very well defined (the informal test I did with this involved listening to Pink Floyd's Wall and Dave Brubeck). When bass is delicate and the nuaces of seperation are needed Stereo bass is far better. Trilok Gurtu however required both Mono and Stereo Bass using say a 18" woofer below 50/60Hz and 2 8" woofers from 40Hz and up (here to the 8" woofer sounded nicer in a Short-TL than any other configuration).

I remember one instance some 8 or 10 years ago when we (5 journos and 2 friends of journos - me being part of the later category) were visting Dave Wilson (he had just developed a new sub to go with this Watt-Puppy) and he ran us through a series of CDs. Of those present (we were 7, ok 8 if you include Dave but he was biased) 4 or 5 of us prefered Mono to Stereo Bass in the same instances (Wes Philips it seemed just wanted Stereo Bass all the time) so this Mono vs Stereo Bass is not just a phenomenon that I alone have expereinced.

On another instance in about 1986-7 we were listening to LPs on a Mirco Seiki mated to Rowland Reseach. The speakers were 2 Klipschorn and a Belle Klipsch for the MONO bass in the center. The Klipschorns were not filtered (no HPF) and the sound of this system (dedicated listening room with some degree of LEDE treatment) was fantastic. I never thought I would enjoy horns so much.

Yes if I had just one configuration to tune my system I would opt for Stereo Bass. When Mono sounds better than Stereo the differences are far smaller than when Stereo sounds better than Mono.

My belief is that a lot of this might be due to the summing of signals and the manner in which room nodes are excited. I guess it might be some sort of inter polar cancellation that occurs even at longer wavelenghts. This would also mean that it would depend on the placement of woofers in the room.

I'd like to know if others have had similar experiences. Maybe we could move this to another thread (I cant find the old Stereo vs Mon Bass thread).

Last edited by navin : 27th April 2007 at 13:06.
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Old 27th April 2007, 12:11   #512
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I'd like to add that it's not very healthy to be playing a system at such high levels with the windows up. You WILL damage your hearing eventually.
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Old 27th April 2007, 12:27   #513
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Kapasi View Post
Also the failure (if at all) of one woofer will not result in a system failure. Or vice versa.
For example, in case a single voice coil fails (in either option a or b) it will change the impedace presented to both channels of the amplifier. This makes me uncomfortable.
Very good point.

But in this case, not worth much worry. There's a very slim chance that you'll be able to fry a Steg amp even if you short circuited it.

Edit: I was just thinking. In both configs, if any one of the coils or more fails, the impedance will either increase, or the circuit will open. So sorry ma'am, I take back my words.

Last edited by Bass&Trouble : 27th April 2007 at 12:44.
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Old 27th April 2007, 12:29   #514
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I'd like to add that it's not very healthy to be playing a system at such high levels with the windows up. You WILL damage your hearing eventually.
WILL? I think the damage is already done unless the build quality of the ears is better than the swift, they are already rattling.
That said, LBM should go to the Limca book of records for the Loudest Bhains.. err Bass
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Old 27th April 2007, 12:34   #515
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Very good point.

But in this case, not worth much worry. There's a very slim chance that you'll be able to fry a Steg amp even if you short circuited it.
Steg I not my fear I fear the subs cant take the 1200 watts beating continuously.....and thats why I am not playing them for long durations......only 10-15 seconds burp....also the car electrical system cannot take the beating which the monster Steg is giving...so to be on the safer side....the whipping session last for few seconds only....with long lasting effects......
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Old 27th April 2007, 12:43   #516
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WILL? I think the damage is already done unless the build quality of the ears is better than the swift, they are already rattling.
That said, LBM should go to the Limca book of records for the Loudest Bhains.. err Bass
No yaar I am not interested in any records...it is just a hobby...and I think I have achieved a lot .....now I thing I must take a pause before my family throw me out of the house.........

Ok this was all SPL stuff.....I have tunned the system a bit....with a little bit of time aligment and some crossover setting....the results are mind blowing....last night Zuchero had listened to the setup seriously without any jokes and he was quite impressed with the whole setup.....the soundstage has improved a lot....the feel of that the music is coming for the front is very fantastic......and the sub full get sync with front speakers.....now waiting for the next meat..........
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Old 27th April 2007, 12:46   #517
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I'd like to add that it's not very healthy to be playing a system at such high levels with the windows up. You WILL damage your hearing eventually.
Ya I was thinking of the same....but here is a different thing I observed...that if the front doors are open the setup play louder than when the doors are closed.........and this I have also observed when the enclosure where sealed also......
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Old 27th April 2007, 12:59   #518
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Originally Posted by Bass&Trouble View Post
Edit: I was just thinking. In both configs, if any one of the coils or more fails, the impedance will either increase, or the circuit will open. So sorry ma'am, I take back my words.
In option A, if one coil fails, one woofer will stop working (as the voice coils are in series with each other) resulting in a single woofer, of 4 ohms connected to the amplifier in bridged mode.
In Option B, if a single voice coil fails, it will result in a 2 ohms vc, in series with a 1 ohm woofer, presenting 3 ohms to the bridged amplifier.

However if the voice coil shorts, the scenario is completely different. and could be dangerous to this amp, even if stegs are invincible, it's still not a good idea.

My only point in this ramble, is that's it's easier when the 2 channels are independent. Don't you agree B&T?
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Old 27th April 2007, 13:18   #519
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...There's a very slim chance that you'll be able to fry a Steg amp even if you short circuited it.
...So sorry ma'am, I take back my words.
B&T, most amps have Short circuit protection and yes voice coils usually are OC when they fail. Besides my guess is that failure of this kind will not be due to thermal stress but mechanical and that means there is every likelihood of both coils of a DVC sub going OC at the same time. but assuming only one coil fails...in option a) and b) when you have a series / parallel combination of 4 coils if one coil fails (any one) the impedance will be higher (4 ohms in case a and 3 ohms in case b) and in option c if any coil fails both channels will still play just that one channel will be noticeably softer than the other.
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Old 27th April 2007, 17:52   #520
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OC.....???????
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Old 27th April 2007, 18:15   #521
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OC = Open Circuit. When the resistance is infinity.
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Old 27th April 2007, 19:40   #522
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OC = Open Circuit. When the resistance is infinity.
SO enough of the STEREO and MONO....now I am going for separate channels in normal mode and would switch to stereo or mono if required from the AMP`S pre-amp sections.....
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Old 27th April 2007, 19:45   #523
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This dhaaga (thread) is really a wonderful saga, lol.

I'm glad you've decided what you want to do next. So when are you changing the HU? Since that's the one thing you have not changed in a long while.
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Old 27th April 2007, 19:57   #524
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This dhaaga (thread) is really a wonderful saga, lol.

I'm glad you've decided what you want to do next. So when are you changing the HU? Since that's the one thing you have not changed in a long while.

Hmmm....what.....how this news reached your ears.....this birdy is using some real time and good stuff.....I was discuss with zuchero about the HU yesterday.....but I will be changing it soon......when I get a good deal on the OLD one......

and yes it is the last thing left.....and the weakest point in the chain.....
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Old 27th April 2007, 22:27   #525
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Quote:
Originally Posted by low_bass_makker View Post
SO enough of the STEREO and MONO....now I am going for separate channels in normal mode and would switch to stereo or mono if required from the AMP`S pre-amp sections.....
You can switch mono / stereo from Alpine H701 also.
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