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Old 3rd October 2007, 14:34   #781
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Originally Posted by panky12345 View Post
OPTION IV: you may also like to place the tweeter somewhere near your knees as done in that rainbow wala thread and see the results yourself. I think JB would be in a better position to answer this. He was mentioning some acoustic phase.
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Originally Posted by akg7091 View Post
LBM sir, I suggest you avoid the "acoustic phase" option as only the gurus can work out something like that. Mere mortals like you and me are better off using the simpler methods
Well but what on earth is acoustic phase? I know it should be simple for you guys but I have no clue on how to align a speaker using acoustic phase?
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Old 3rd October 2007, 15:21   #782
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Well but what on earth is acoustic phase? I know it should be simple for you guys but I have no clue on how to align a speaker using acoustic phase?
Even I wanna know that.

JB/Gunman you listening?
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Old 3rd October 2007, 15:22   #783
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Well but what on earth is acoustic phase? I know it should be simple for you guys but I have no clue on how to align a speaker using acoustic phase?
I believe that we are getting sidetrackked again.

LBM, I understand youknow exactly what you want and in addition to this you intend to ask some equally knowledgeable people to listen to the options and only then will you go ahead with the the install. You have chosen the components wisely and are proceeding with great care. Enjoy the process.
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Old 3rd October 2007, 21:39   #784
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Originally Posted by low_bass_makker View Post
Hmmm...nice observations...I have right now install the option 1 right now in my car and Clip has listen to it also. My be he might add something here about the overall experience of the audition.

Will not hurry this time will consider any other option if it suits the install location . I can also get the speaker install in the kick panels also but it will be the last resort.
kidaan paaji, lol

speaking honestly lbm, i like your setup and how it sounds. the tweets were really nice and were not bright at all. i thik it was nice. but please keep in mind that i have auditioned very few cars. but with the little experience i have with car audio, i know exactly what i want in my car now(how it should sound).

lbm, the only suggestion i would give is that please please dont ever think that the idmax are spl subs. you know that. it is an sq sub which can do good spl as well. this is what gunbir also says and i totally agree with him.
but let me add that your setup is the best spl setup i have ever heard(ok i know its sq but it can sure rock the person listening)

here is a very honest opinion. firstly, you need a properly sealed enclosure(you cant just plug the port with your hand and say its sealed now) you were showing me how the sub bottoms out when you plug the vent with your hand. but IN MY HONST OPINION LBM, you can expect a vented enclosure volume to work as sealed. and from what i know, your vented enclosure is a lttle off from what is recomended(i could be wrong)
get an spl sub if you want more spl but i doubt you need more. your sub is a beutiful piece of engineering. its one of the best sq subs around. and i totally agree opinions differ, tastes differ. if dont like it, no one has a problem with that.

as for the placements of the drivers, we are having a good discussion and will add whatever i think as and when it comes to my brain(its a little slow)

no offence meant to you or anyone. its just my opinion and i could be wrong.

your rating for the setup would be like 8 out of ten. and i would give another +1 for the pxa-rux combo. i would add later. have to rush to get food for bifey.

changa
clip
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Old 3rd October 2007, 23:02   #785
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l_b_m, I just listened (for quite a while) to a 3-way setup in a Swift, done-up similarly to OPTION 1 here (and it sounded really great).

I change my opinion about what I said earlier. OPTION 1 can be considered. If you listen to OPTION 1 for a while, and feel the tweets blend well with the mids, go for it
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Old 4th October 2007, 00:25   #786
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LBM: Bindaas karo Option 4. But do it in panky's car, for his component system.

But seriously LBM, if I were you, I'd go for midrange and tweeter in the same plane. Its the textbook method and you really cant go terribly wrong with it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hydrashok
l_b_m, I just listened (for quite a while) to a 3-way setup in a Swift, done-up similarly to OPTION 1 here (and it sounded really great).
In a 2-way, for the tweeter to be so much higher and far away from the midbass and yet sound correct, the tweeter would have to be a Low Fs one, so that the crossover point is quite low. This is after assuming that the midwoofer is low down in the door. For a 3-way, the position of the midrange is anyway quite elevated (ref: Option I) and hence could sound good as you say. But it would be better with the tweeter closer to the midrange in my opinion. I have played around a lot with Peerless' 2" DMR and a little bit even with the Dynaudio 3" midrange in cars while concocting my own little 3-way setups.

My hunch is that some variations of Option 2 and Option 3 should turn out sounding the best. The midrange hands over to the tweeter at a reasonably high 5500Hz in the case of the DLS component in concern.

Anyway LBM, all the best in your experiments, do let us know the results. I would be very eager to know.

Last edited by Bass&Trouble : 4th October 2007 at 00:27.
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Old 4th October 2007, 00:47   #787
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Originally Posted by panky12345 View Post
OPTION IV: you may also like to place the tweeter somewhere near your knees as done in that rainbow wala thread and see the results yourself. I think JB would be in a better position to answer this. He was mentioning some acoustic phase.
Quote:
Originally Posted by akg7091 View Post
LBM sir, I suggest you avoid the "acoustic phase" option as only the gurus can work out something like that. Mere mortals like you and me are better off using the simpler methods
Quote:
Originally Posted by moralfibre View Post
Well but what on earth is acoustic phase? I know it should be simple for you guys but I have no clue on how to align a speaker using acoustic phase?
Thanks guy but I think I wanna go for a tradition method not a out of the world which will bring sound stage down to my knee.
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Old 4th October 2007, 01:00   #788
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clipto333 View Post
here is a very honest opinion. firstly, you need a properly sealed enclosure(you cant just plug the port with your hand and say its sealed now) you were showing me how the sub bottoms out when you plug the vent with your hand. but IN MY HONST OPINION LBM, you can expect a vented enclosure volume to work as sealed. and from what i know, your vented enclosure is a lttle off from what is recomended(i could be wrong)get an spl sub if you want more spl but i doubt you need more. your sub is a beutiful piece of engineering. its one of the best sq subs around. and i totally agree opinions differ, tastes differ. if dont like it, no one has a problem with that.
Let us leave the sub behind as it is not that important right now...

Quote:
Originally Posted by clipto333
as for the placements of the drivers, we are having a good discussion and will add whatever i think as and when it comes to my brain(its a little slow)

no offence meant to you or anyone. its just my opinion and i could be wrong.

your rating for the setup would be like 8 out of ten. and i would give another +1 for the pxa-rux combo. i would add later.
Firstly you are always in a rush...lol anyways thanks for the comments

And you brain is not at all slow. If you can install in a car then you have a fast brains in terms of audio.

Will be waiting for your comments so that I might gain something from it..
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Old 4th October 2007, 01:06   #789
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Originally Posted by hydrashok View Post
l_b_m, I just listened (for quite a while) to a 3-way setup in a Swift, done-up similarly to OPTION 1 here (and it sounded really great).

I change my opinion about what I said earlier. OPTION 1 can be considered. If you listen to OPTION 1 for a while, and feel the tweets blend well with the mids, go for it
Hmm It would be very much helpful if I got to see the pics of the same as you said it is a swift...

about the tweeters and mid blending in they go well but in some songs they tend to single alone also. so will check for other placements, maybe some thing new comes to mind.
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Old 4th October 2007, 01:10   #790
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Originally Posted by navin View Post
LBM are you looking to modifythe door extensively?

One option is to install the midrange on the door right where the AC vent is. I would try this first and see with the AC running and blower at max to ensure that the blower does not distort the critical mids. If this location for the mids works then I would consider getting powered (instead of stalk controlled) rear mirrors and using the mirror pods for the tweeters.

I dont think the A pillar is wide enough to accomdate the midrange.
No sir I dont think I will mod the door much will use some aluminium fabricated gear to surface mount on the door or the dash.

The AC vent is no where near the midrange in any pic. I also tried to place the mid on the AC vent and the tweeter on the top but the mids were on the face in that case...
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Old 4th October 2007, 07:48   #791
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Originally Posted by Bass&Trouble View Post
... But it would be better with the tweeter closer to the midrange in my opinion. ...
I think so too. And I'd also prefer going by the proven method of installation.

Its just that I realized that OPTION 1 should not be written-off completely (as I did in my earlier post) without giving it a listen . The setup I heard yesterday was the only 3-way setup I'd actually listened to, with the tweeter placed a bit far away from the midrange, and everything sounded quite good IMHO.

Quote:
Originally Posted by low_bass_makker View Post
Hmm It would be very much helpful if I got to see the pics of the same as you said it is a swift...
I'm sure the pics will be up here in TBHP in a week Wait for the newest ICE machine from Kochi!

Last edited by hydrashok : 4th October 2007 at 07:53.
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Old 4th October 2007, 09:26   #792
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Regarding the placement of speakers :

If you have freedom of placing the drivers apart from using the better looking stock locations. You can tailor a much better sound.

Tweeters needs to as far as possible, away from reflective surface as tweeter has a wider radiating angle than a typical cone driver. Due to wider dispersion they induce more secondary reflections which can ruin the soundstange and imaging. Similarly in case of dome midranges, they are even worse as they have larger diameter. Avoid installing both of them on axis as they can beam and ruin your sound. Maintaining equal path lengths is very important.

Cone midranges are difficult to install as they are not enclosed drivers like domes and most of them are bigger in size. They need space behind them to play optimally. Do not mount cone midrange sharing the common volume with midbass.

So in all you have to choose a location which has lesser reflective surface in case of domes thats why a lot of people choose kick panel or A Pillar as they are the only two farthest location in car environment from the listening position. Tweeter should be placed even further than midrange.

Keep the tweeter and midrange closer to each other and if possible in same plane if using speakers with shallow slope (Dynaudio Esotecs) in order to maintain the phase and seamless integration of drivers. You get more freedom regarding placement in case of speakers using steeper slope (Rainbows) because of the steeper rolloff in frequency response of each driver.

For midbass seal and damp the doors completely. Give a solid mounting to midbass and try and bring the midbass as close as possible to the doorpad factory grille to avoid it from firing inside the panel.
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Old 4th October 2007, 09:35   #793
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Quote:
Originally Posted by low_bass_makker View Post
Thanks guy but I think I wanna go for a tradition method not a out of the world which will bring sound stage down to my knee.
LBM, soundstage is not dependent on the tweeter alone. The most crucial part in audio reproduction is midrange.

I am not the only guy in the entire world who does kick panel install. There are thousands of people all across the world and many of them won competiotions using kick install. Google it and see for yourself.

Install is more dependent on what you can do best in a car than what you want to because of restriction of space and driver mounting options.

You will see more cars in future from our side using esoteric speakers in the kick panels because our knees really enjoy soundstage from kick panel location

Last edited by Autophile : 4th October 2007 at 09:37.
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Old 4th October 2007, 10:33   #794
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Originally Posted by Autophile View Post
LBM, soundstage is not dependent on the tweeter alone. The most crucial part in audio reproduction is midrange.

I am not the only guy in the entire world who does kick panel install. There are thousands of people all across the world and many of them won competiotions using kick install. Google it and see for yourself.

Install is more dependent on what you can do best in a car than what you want to because of restriction of space and driver mounting options.

You will see more cars in future from our side using esoteric speakers in the kick panels because our knees really enjoy soundstage from kick panel location
I agree on the wholeworld using kick installs... I happned to be at variuos SQ competitons abroad.. Almsot all the winners had kick installs.
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Old 4th October 2007, 12:01   #795
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@ B&T: bhai mere, i'm a gareeb man having only 2 way comps. waise honestly speaking, the tweeters in my car are hanging with the wires since the day i got them installed (it fell off from the location soon after the install and its like since then, i didnt find time to go back to installer) but i dont wanna have them on my knees. pardon my ignornace, am not ~SQ~ types, neither i wanna be one.

@ JB: your explanation was very good indeed, but i couldn't yet understand the acoustic phase.

@ SK: theres a fellow TBHPian here who has won 3rd position in Db drag with his 200W MTX 2 channel amp and a Cervin Wega 12" sub; Pio site claims that it has world record for SPL using that 5000W wala monster sub.
That doesnt mean that everyone who's a basshead here goes for the above MTX/Wega or Pio. Similarly, all kick installs dont necessarily mean what you call ~SQ~
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