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Old 30th July 2009, 21:41   #1861
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Originally Posted by tush View Post
Thanks for the suggestions Abhinav. But i forgot to mention a few things which are as below.

1. My Car is Swift DDIS ABS
2. I want every component of ICE in B&W
3. I want to get the damping as it makes a lot of difference in SQ is what I understood from different threads.

So based on these additions does your suggestion still remain the same ?
Yes.
Only you'll have to go for a different 4 channel. Fixing the JBL 1004 will be difficult in that.
but then the other options won't give sufficient power to the sub.
I'll advice take the amp in grey.
The components and sub price i meantioned is with b/w.

Damping can be done in stages.
Get the Front doors in the 1st stage. Then the rear door and boot later when you have enough Vitamin M to pay the tabs.


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Originally Posted by Ajaybiz View Post
Gurus need advice on my upgrade plan.
Present setup Pioneer 7950, JBL 607C at front door, JBL 937 6x9 at rear fixed in MDF, powered by JBL GTO 75.4 amp.
Upgrade plan same HU, New components at front door either Illusion Elecra 6.1 or GZRC 16X, Front JBL will go to rear door, removing the 6x9 including the MDF board, putting JBL GTO 301.1 mono amp along with GZTW 30T sub.
Bit concerned about amps power and spekers power handeling capacity as if i plant GZ components than i'll be running them on 4 ohms and my 75.4 puts only 104 W RMS compared to spekers 120W power handeling capacity, same case is with mono amp as that is rated 320W RMS at 2 ohms compared to subs 400W RMS handeling capacity.Need advice.

BTW my car is Swift.
I was powering the Ground Zero's with JBL 1004 and they were simply amazing. The power handling is not an issue.
The setup will sound great.
I'll advice you GZ instead of Illusions. They are better.


Quote:
Originally Posted by msbehave View Post
Hi all,

3. Your Budget: 35K [should include HU, 2 compos, 2 co-ax, amp, subwoofer?, damping, wires, installation]

4. Do you drive most of the time or is it chauffer driven? Self-drive

5. Your Music preferences (Genres, favorite artists, etc.): Trip Hop, Hip-hop, Rap, Spoken Word, RnB, Jazz, Latin and sometimes Bollywood & Pop [with friends]

My main question [don't know if it can be answered] How do I setup ICE to suit Ella Fitzgerald/Nina Simone's as well as the slow & heavy drum beats in triphop?

Personally, I like cranking up my volume and having deep, resonant bass but without letting the whole neighbourhood know I'm passing through. Clarity is also very important, like to listen to the subtleties in various traditional instruments.

Have visited a few dealers here in Bombay. The only one who auditioned for me was Boom @ bandra. So, I got to listen to Illusion Electra. But, all the other places said they don't audition and one suggested doing a demo for me after installing in my car. Ddn't find any dealers for Bull, rainbow, Hertz. Any suggestions?

I would really appreciate any help/pointers.Thanks!
35k.
I'll say avoid the rear coaxs since you have mentioned that its mostly self driven.
They'll just hamper the sound stage.

You can go in for a pioneer/kenwood HU - 7k.

Front components - Illusion Electras - 7k

Subwoofer - Ground zero 30T - 8k

Amp - JBL 1004 - 9k grey

Wiring + Damping + Install - 4k ( Some basic damping to start of with ) or maybe extend the budget by 2-3k and get good damping.

Person to contact.

Mr. Bass&Trouble.

You'll be satisfied and if you want, he would arrange for an audition for you to listen to the stuff before ( for the sub as i read that you have already listened to the illusions) ( P.S. How did you find them)

Last edited by abhinav.gupta88 : 30th July 2009 at 21:46.
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Old 31st July 2009, 11:17   #1862
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Abhinav - thanks a ton! This really helps. Was wondering where I would cut the corner to save some costs - so co-ax it is. Actually, after checking out a few things I had increased my budget from 25kto 35k, so now there's no space for maneuver!

I went to Boom @ Bandra and checked out the Illusion electra 6.1, because I live close to it! Called up someone called Audio-Line in Khar as he was reputed to stock many brands - rainbow, hertz, gz etc. He told me arrogantly, you chose the HU and I will decide the rest for you. Decided not to go there, his attitude pissed me off so bad, don't know whether he does this with everyone or because I'm a girl!
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Old 31st July 2009, 11:34   #1863
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Quote:
Originally Posted by msbehave View Post
Abhinav - thanks a ton! This really helps. Was wondering where I would cut the corner to save some costs - so co-ax it is. Actually, after checking out a few things I had increased my budget from 25kto 35k, so now there's no space for maneuver!

I went to Boom @ Bandra and checked out the Illusion electra 6.1, because I live close to it! Called up someone called Audio-Line in Khar as he was reputed to stock many brands - rainbow, hertz, gz etc. He told me arrogantly, you chose the HU and I will decide the rest for you. Decided not to go there, his attitude pissed me off so bad, don't know whether he does this with everyone or because I'm a girl!

Ouch. Thats bad.
I would have done the same. Not go there again.
Never the less, all the best. Do audition the sub etc and feel free to ask if in doubt
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Old 31st July 2009, 11:47   #1864
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Quote:
Originally Posted by msbehave View Post
3. Your Budget: 35K [should include HU, 2 compos, 2 co-ax, amp, subwoofer?, damping, wires, installation]

My main question [don't know if it can be answered] How do I setup ICE to suit Ella Fitzgerald/Nina Simone's as well as the slow & heavy drum beats in triphop?

Have visited a few dealers here in Bombay. The only one who auditioned for me was Boom @ bandra. So, I got to listen to Illusion Electra. But, all the other places said they don't audition and one suggested doing a demo for me after installing in my car. Ddn't find any dealers for Bull, rainbow, Hertz. Any suggestions?

I would really appreciate any help/pointers.Thanks!
Quote:
Originally Posted by msbehave View Post
Abhinav - thanks a ton! This really helps. Was wondering where I would cut the corner to save some costs - so co-ax it is. Actually, after checking out a few things I had increased my budget from 25kto 35k, so now there's no space for maneuver!

I went to Boom @ Bandra and checked out the Illusion electra 6.1, because I live close to it! Called up someone called Audio-Line in Khar as he was reputed to stock many brands - rainbow, hertz, gz etc. He told me arrogantly, you chose the HU and I will decide the rest for you. Decided not to go there, his attitude pissed me off so bad, don't know whether he does this with everyone or because I'm a girl!
MS, If a dealer is not willing to give you an audition dont even bother. The least a dealer can do is let you audition a customer's car while it is in the shop. Most customers do not mind - audiophiles love turning others into audiophiles.

Also remember that for 3-5K more you can add a pair of coax in the rear doors anytime. You can power these coax off the HU so you dont even have to change the other wiring.

The '785' HU that is the rage here might well be the cheapest TA equipped HU available but it will strech your budget. If you can get it from the US of A then you will save about 5K maybe more.

HU: 15K (if you go for the 785)
Amp: 10K (like the JBL 1004 suggested earlier)
Speakers and sub: 15K (Illuson/GZ, JBL, Blaupunt THc series, etc..).

The Swift hatch is a pretty small area so you will need a custom sealed sub box. My FIL drives a Swift Zxi so I am familiar with this car.

Last edited by navin : 31st July 2009 at 11:50.
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Old 31st July 2009, 12:07   #1865
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Originally Posted by Ajaybiz View Post
... Bit concerned about amps power and spekers power handeling capacity as if i plant GZ components than i'll be running them on 4 ohms and my 75.4 puts only 104 W RMS compared to spekers 120W power handeling capacity, same case is with mono amp as that is rated 320W RMS at 2 ohms compared to subs 400W RMS handeling capacity. ...
Ajay, relax! Amp rated a bit less than the speakers is a relatively safe situation - less chances of speakers getting fried. In normal listening conditions (including decently loud), you will never reach those power levels.
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Old 31st July 2009, 15:57   #1866
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Thanks Navin! I feel much better now about asking for auditioning. The way the dealers were refusing an audition left me wondering whether people actually ask for one or not.

I'm on it now though and have a couple of appointments set up! Will keep on updating!

What does TA equipped mean?
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Old 31st July 2009, 16:15   #1867
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Originally Posted by msbehave View Post
What does TA equipped mean?
That the HU has the feature of time allignment (TA)

Quote:
What is Time allignment?

In a multiple driver loudspeaker system, it is important that the time delay inherent in each driver and its associated crossover network be the same to preserve accurate transient (see WFTD archive transient) response. In other words, the high frequencies and low frequencies much reach the listener's ear at the same time. A system which meets this criterion is said to be "time aligned." One way to accomplish this is to place the tweeter further away from the listener than the woofer, and this is done in many speaker systems. Another way is to design the crossover network to add a suitable delay to the high frequency signal before it gets to the driver. The phrase "time alignment" is also sometimes used in reference to adding delay to one or more microphones in a situation where more than one mic is being used on an instrument, and the mics are at different distances from the instrument. A good example of this is orchestral recording where several mics are employed at various distances to accurately capture the sound of the orchestra in the hall. The microphones closer to the orchestra are sometimes delayed to be more in "time" with microphones placed out in the hall.
In simple words, Adjusting the sound to reach the listener at the same time from speakers that are at different distances.

Last edited by shreyasma : 31st July 2009 at 16:21.
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Old 31st July 2009, 16:30   #1868
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Quote:
Originally Posted by msbehave View Post
Thanks Navin! I feel much better now about asking for auditioning. The way the dealers were refusing an audition left me wondering whether people actually ask for one or not.

I'm on it now though and have a couple of appointments set up! Will keep on updating!

What does TA equipped mean?
Its nice to see you are following the proper way to buy the products.

Quote:
Originally Posted by navin View Post
MS, If a dealer is not willing to give you an audition dont even bother. The least a dealer can do is let you audition a customer's car while it is in the shop. Most customers do not mind - audiophiles love turning others into audiophiles.

Also remember that for 3-5K more you can add a pair of coax in the rear doors anytime. You can power these coax off the HU so you dont even have to change the other wiring.

The '785' HU that is the rage here might well be the cheapest TA equipped HU available but it will strech your budget. If you can get it from the US of A then you will save about 5K maybe more.

HU: 15K (if you go for the 785)
Amp: 10K (like the JBL 1004 suggested earlier)
Speakers and sub: 15K (Illuson/GZ, JBL, Blaupunt THc series, etc..).

The Swift hatch is a pretty small area so you will need a custom sealed sub box. My FIL drives a Swift Zxi so I am familiar with this car.

The clarion would cost around 9k hand carried and around 14-15 if imported.

Also Navin ji, you forgot the damping and the wiring cost.
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Old 31st July 2009, 17:15   #1869
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Quote:
Originally Posted by msbehave View Post
Thanks Navin! I feel much better now about asking for auditioning. The way the dealers were refusing an audition left me wondering whether people actually ask for one or not.
It's sometimes difficult for a dealer to give a demo because the exact same combination might not be on their demo boards. And even if it is, the gear will sound very different in the car.
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Old 31st July 2009, 23:41   #1870
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Originally Posted by Bass&Trouble View Post
It's sometimes difficult for a dealer to give a demo because the exact same combination might not be on their demo boards. And even if it is, the gear will sound very different in the car.
True but some demo could be possible. Atleast one can see the ability of the dealer to make a clean and good install.

FOr example BOOM was able to give MSBehave a demo of atleast the speakers with not nesscarily the same HU or in the same car. It speaks volumes if the dealer comes across as arrogant or condesending or just plain couldn't care less on the phone.

My sister had this issue once. Unfortunately (for the dealer) her husband is an audiophile only matched by Bhagwan, FB, etc.. I mean this man makes his own XLR, RCA, speaker cables and tube amps, and I was in town (my sister lives in Singapore) so not only does she know a thing or two about audio but she came home and went back to the dealer with both of us in tow.
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Old 31st July 2009, 23:57   #1871
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Thanks shreyasma for the detailed and clear explanation of TA equipped. The ICE forum is fascinating!

About dealers, can understand about being unable to give a demo with a particular HU/car/setup. I had even gone so far as to ask them to play their equipment even within the shop - it seemed to be wired up and even that they wouldn't do.

While we're on dealers, Boom was the best I came across, very helpful and seemed to know what he was upto. The others weren't too helpful but polite. Only a few dealers were arrogant - one even told me not to get compos/amp/sub. He said sony xplod speakers and a "cd player" would work fine for me.

Contacted hermit audio in bombay today and they were very quick and responsive, so I am getting somewhere :-)
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Old 1st August 2009, 00:33   #1872
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Gurus one doubt is Ground Zero GZTW 30T is 4ohms DVC woofer or SVC didnt found any details in net.
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Old 1st August 2009, 00:39   #1873
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Its 4 ohm SVC. 400w rms.
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Old 1st August 2009, 22:10   #1874
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Originally Posted by abhinav.gupta88 View Post
The 2nd option is better.

The 2nd option is better.
Is it 20k for Comps + Amp + Sub or 20k for Amp + SUb

20k for Comps + Amp + Sub would mean 13k for Amp + Sub if you choose the Illusions.

I'd say go for the GZ 30T to complement it - 8k and a Blaupunkt GT4MKII with it. - 5k.
1000-2000 more in wiring + install. So that would make it around 21-22. IMO , you'll love it.


20k for Amp + Sub could fetch you a JBL 1004 and a GZ 30T. This would be a much better imo. JBL if taken in grey would cost around 9 and the sub as mentioned would cost 8k. So you'll be left with 3k for install + wiring. You could get a bit damping if budget allows you or add that later ( which you'll have to assuming your car is the one in your avatar.)

I'll advise you to go in for the JBL + Illusion + GZ combo. It will sound totally rocking.
Hi Abhinav and Gurus I have uped my budget by 5k, so now i have total 25k to spend excluding HU. Might not mind few grands give and take.

I just went for some information about the above ICE in market. Came to know that JBL 1004 is discontinued and no longer available. For Blau "Modern Car" says that the company is closed(band ho gayi company aab blau nahi milta). Is that true?

I went through the Specs from the website for Blau and catlog for JBL. I didnt understand which one would be more good. As the price difference between the two is significant.

JBL 1004e
100W*4 - 4 ohms
150W*4 - 2 ohms

Blau GTA4 Special MKII
Max. Power 4 Channel @4 Ohm (Watt): 4x120
Max. Power 2 Channel @4 Ohm (Watt): 2x400
Max. Power 4 Channel @2 Ohm (Watt): 4x180
RMS Power 4 Channel @4 Ohm (Watt): 4x60
RMS Power 2 Channel @4 Ohm (Watt): 2x180


I was recommended the following AMPS by another ICE shop

Infinity Reference - 475
Harmon Kardon - 470
Ground Zero MK4
Rockford Fosgate Amp P15412
Vibe P450.4
Blau P450.4

Last edited by tush : 1st August 2009 at 22:16.
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Old 1st August 2009, 22:29   #1875
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You can go in for the Infinity Reference 475.

If you go in for the HK 470, the total budget of your ice will go there. It is available for 25k.

I'll suggest try some other place as well because there has been no news of JBL 1004 getting discontinued by the Yeti Lord Sam Kapasi also.



P.S. 25k for Amp + Comps + Sub can get you a set of
Illusion Electras - 7k
Ground Zero 30T - 8k
10k inclusive which can include the Blau GT4 / JBL 1004 + Wiring + damping ( If you go in for the 1004, you'll need more bucks for the wiring + damping as it would cost you around 9-10k.

Last edited by abhinav.gupta88 : 1st August 2009 at 22:31.
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