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Old 21st March 2013, 15:12   #2281
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Default re: ICE upgrade : Maruti Swift

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Originally Posted by Maky View Post
... It looks like I'll have to go with Sony >.<.
... should I bother connecting it to one of the pairs or is it better just to sell it off.
Ah well, nothing wrong with it. It is definitely not China-made taxi-wala stuff - though not substantially better.

Sure, if the amp is lying around unused, at least drive the front components with it.
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Old 21st March 2013, 17:28   #2282
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Ah well, nothing wrong with it. It is definitely not China-made taxi-wala stuff - though not substantially better.

Sure, if the amp is lying around unused, at least drive the front components with it.
Any reason for front and not rear? I thought most go for rear rather that front unless I'm wrong...
Oh and do you find my choices for the HU and speakers satisfactory?
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Old 22nd March 2013, 10:36   #2283
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Default re: ICE upgrade : Maruti Swift

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Any reason for front and not rear? I thought most go for rear rather that front unless I'm wrong...
1. Which way would you face while listening to live music?
2. The rears are ovals, heavier in bass and more sensitive than the front speakers. Amplifying the rears without amplifying the front will give you a bass-heavy, predominantly rear image

Your choices are OK, considering all Sony models are mediocre.

Last edited by DerAlte : 22nd March 2013 at 12:51.
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Old 22nd March 2013, 12:01   #2284
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Default re: ICE upgrade : Maruti Swift

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Originally Posted by DerAlte View Post
1. Which way would you face while listening to live music?
2. The rears are ovals, heavier in bass and more sensitive than the front speakers. Amplifying the rears without amplifying the front will give you a bass-heavy, predominantly rear image

Your choices are OK, considering all Sony models are mediocre.
Hmm ok...
Thanks a lot for the help DerAlte and everyone else : )))

Last edited by DerAlte : 22nd March 2013 at 12:52. Reason: Corrected the quoted post
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Old 17th April 2013, 19:29   #2285
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Default re: ICE upgrade : Maruti Swift

Hi Gurus

I need your advice on improving the sound quality of my current ICE set-up. I have had the following equipment for more than 2 years now and feel the need to improve the SQ (Yes, precisely that, SQ)

1. Your Car: Swift (Old Model)

2. Your current setup (If any):

HU - JVC KD R316 (one pre-out)
Speakers - JBL entry level coaxials (all 4 doors)
Amp - Boston 2ch (Entry level, not sure of the model) driving the sub
Sub - Rockford Fosgate (RF12) bass tube 12''
Wiring - No clue whatsoever
Damping - Front doors only, dont remember the brand

3. Your Budget: 7-8K, stretchable to 10-12k under special circumstances (read: mind-numbing improvement)

Option 1
  • Upgrade front speakers to a set of good compenents
  • Run the front speakers with the current Boston amp
  • Do away with the sub till I upgrade the HU and add another amp
  • Add a set of decent 6X9 coaxials mounted on an MDF tray (Already have one from a past experiment)

Option 2
  • Upgrade front speakers to a set of good compenents, drive it off the HU
  • Nothing else changes till I upgrade further
4. Do you drive most of the time or is it chauffer driven?: Self Driven

5. Your Music preferences (Genres, favorite artists, etc.): Anything thats popular like Bollywood, Western commercial, Rock, Hip hop, RnB.

Some songs in my current playlist: Nosy neighbour by Akon, Pani da Rang, Saadi gali aaja from Nautanki Sala, Candy Shop by 50 cent, Carry out by Timbaland and Timberlake, That's my name remix by Edward Maya, Rise up (Vandalism Mix), Jee le zara from Talaash, Come undone, Sang hun tere from Jannat 2, Angreji Beat by Honey Singh

Additional Information:

6. Are you ready to sacrifice your boot space/modify door panels? : Boot space is already gone, but it matters little since I drive most of the time without much luggage and anyway quickly remove the sub whenever the need for the boot arises.

A little story that explains my situation/need:

I have been totally happy with the HU (Other than the fact that it has a single pre-out), the amp and Sub combo. I have always found the speakers falling short of my expectations in terms of resolution/SQ/Mid-bass whenever the Sub is removed temporarily for using the boot.

With the sub in place, somehow the overall SQ isn't all that bad. What I have inferred from this is, that there is a considerable scope of improvement in the overall SQ if I upgrade the front comps. Therefore, I need a set of components that have a better thump (mid-bass) than my current JBLs and markedly better resolution. I understand from various threads that only an audition can help me find out what will sound good to me, however, I still need you to suggest some popular makes/models that especially have a thump so that I atleast get a starting point.

Also, a response to the following questions will help me make up my mind:

1. Out of Option 1 & 2, which will sound better (Read SQ) in general?
2. Are there certain makes/models which in general have better bass and are from the same price band? If yes, please suggest a few that I can audition.
3. If a sub has been installed, do 6X9 coaxials add to the SQ over in-door coaxials
4. Who from our fellow members can help me audition some brands in Gurgaon/Delhi
5. Is there a risk in upgrading the speakers first and HU later?
6. What other things do I need to consider while going for this 2 step upgrade?
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Old 18th April 2013, 12:23   #2286
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Default re: ICE upgrade : Maruti Swift

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Originally Posted by Swiftoholic View Post
Hi Gurus

I need your advice on improving the sound quality of my current ICE set-up. I have had the following equipment for more than 2 years now and feel the need to improve the SQ (Yes, precisely that, SQ)
For good SQ - You can run a pair of comps for the front and rear as you already have a sub for bass.

For comps i suggest Morel,Infinity,JBL, Auditor, Boston, Bull, etc. for ~5-7K.

But for comps in front and rear and given that you are on a bit tight budget

JBL offers some very competetivly priced models. (ex JBL GTO509 ). Even Pioneer 2103 series have some good models.

However as BHPians advise make sure the set up impresses your ears

Its always worth auditioning the product.

For more detailed info on comps pls go through the below thread

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/ask-gu...t-speaker.html
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Old 18th April 2013, 12:34   #2287
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Default re: ICE upgrade : Maruti Swift

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Originally Posted by Pheonix View Post
For good SQ - You can run a pair of comps for the front and rear ...
Never a good idea to put components front AND back, if you are driving the car.
* When driving the car, one likes the sound image to be in front - near the windshield on top of the dash
* When components are mounted in rear, the tweeters are usually mounted on B-pillar or on door near the B-pillar. In this position, the tweeters are nearer the driver's right ear than even the front tweeters are. Even though the rear one would be severely off-axis, it is enough to pull the front image towards the rear
* Mounting the components behind the rear seat, with tweeters on C-pillar, is pointless - since the rear seat image will be weirdly behind the rear passengers

Coaxes mounted on rear doors don't cause that problem. They also cost approx. half that of components.
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Old 18th April 2013, 15:54   #2288
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Default re: ICE upgrade : Maruti Swift

Thanks for your expert inputs DerAlte. I was of the same opinion that installing Components at the rear will be an overkill and now you have mentioned that it will sort of be counter-productive!
I have read extensively to figure out the answers to my queries, what I have not been able to figure out is why do certain speakers produce good bass even when not powered by an Amp. For instance, one of my friends owns a Polo 1.6 which came with a factory fitted stereo and speakers. Although they dont reproduce a lot of details which my entry level JBLs do, they produce quite a bit of bass, almost obviating the need for a sub unless you want to go really low and loud.

I need help on finding speakers that reproduce the low frequencies rather well and still don't compromise on the overall quality. And then need advice on the first stage of my upgrade out of the two options mentioned above.
To give you an idea of my next stage, I would like to upgrade to a single DIN HU with advanced features like TA, and 3 Pre-outs. I will also add a 4 channel amp to power all speakers. So I need to get the right set of speakers during the first stage itself which can complement the advanced features on the HU and do justice to the planned improved equipment.
If required, I can spend the entire 8-12K on a single set of comppnents and not worry about the rear fill as of now.
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Old 18th April 2013, 17:04   #2289
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Default re: ICE upgrade : Maruti Swift

Quote:
Originally Posted by Swiftoholic View Post
... what I have not been able to figure out is why do certain speakers produce good bass even when not powered by an Amp. For instance, one of my friends owns a Polo 1.6 which came with a factory fitted stereo and speakers. Although they dont reproduce a lot of details which my entry level JBLs do, they produce quite a bit of bass, almost obviating the need for a sub ...
You are describing a matched pair of OE HU and OE speakers. Most OE HUs tailor the output by artificially boosting some, and reducing others, frequencies to match the speaker capabilities. If the HU is changed, it brings out the OE speakers deficiencies. If you change just the speakers, you hear a bit unnatural sound because of the HU tailoring.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Swiftoholic View Post
... I need help on finding speakers that reproduce the low frequencies rather well and still don't compromise on the overall quality. And then need advice on the first stage of my upgrade out of the two options mentioned above.
To give you an idea of my next stage, I would like to upgrade to a single DIN HU with advanced features like TA, and 3 Pre-outs. I will also add a 4 channel amp to power all speakers. ...
Almost any decent set of components in the 6-10K range - Rainbow, RF, JBL, Infinity, Bull, Polk, etc. do that. The difference is usually in the high frequencies - some are bright, some neutral. Better to audition before buying.
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Old 21st April 2013, 12:02   #2290
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Originally Posted by DerAlte View Post
Almost any decent set of components in the 6-10K range - Rainbow, RF, JBL, Infinity, Bull, Polk, etc. do that. The difference is usually in the high frequencies - some are bright, some neutral. Better to audition before buying.
A quick update, I visited Motor Concepts yesterday and ended up listening to a lot of options, thanks to an absolutely patient Aman... Heard Polk, DD, Audison, considered Infinity and RF but finally ended up buying Hertz Hi energy, HSK 165. Needless to say, the already done damping turned out to be insufficient, more layers were added.

The two channel amp driving my bass tube has been used for the components. Bass tube is out of the scheme of things for now since the HU has only one pre out. Another issue now is that the rear fills are ruining the sound so I am playing only the front components.

So till such a time that I can lay my hands on a better HU and a 4 channel amp, this is what I will have to be content with. Will seek some help when I do that. Thanks for your suggestions for stage 1.
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Old 21st April 2013, 17:51   #2291
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Default re: ICE upgrade : Maruti Swift

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... Hertz Hi energy, HSK 165. Needless to say, the already done damping turned out to be insufficient, more layers were added. ...
Good for you. Enjoy!

Damping insufficient??? How? Either the previous guy had done a bad job sticking it, or (more likely) the Hertz components didn't have a good margin!
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Old 21st April 2013, 23:52   #2292
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Got the damping done at the same place earlier, however, it was very little with only the holes plugged. This time the plastic panel and the innermost metal were also damped.

I have a question, the speakers are sounding very 'loud' with my amp and HU combo. Will it make any difference if I were to change them to better ones. As I play them they keep kicking harder everytime, like I wanted. But, they seem to be uncomfortably loud.

I am worried what if this is their typical sound signature and nothing will change even if I upgrade. Please guide.
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Old 22nd April 2013, 10:36   #2293
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Default re: ICE upgrade : Maruti Swift

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Originally Posted by Swiftoholic View Post
Got the damping done at the same place earlier, however, it was very little with only the holes plugged. ...
And the 'plugged holes' don't damp any sound!!! Sorry, but he doesn't seem to know much about damping, or he had pulled a fast one last time around.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Swiftoholic View Post
I have a question, the speakers are sounding very 'loud' with my amp and HU combo. Will it make any difference if I were to change them to better ones. As I play them they keep kicking harder everytime, like I wanted. But, they seem to be uncomfortably loud. ...
Reduce volume, baba!

You need to get used to the sound signature, and that will take some time. I also have a feeling you are unable to accurately describe the sound.
- Which part of the music is sounding 'loud'?
- Is the 'loud' part drowning out any other part of music? If so, which?

First time I am hearing someone complaining about getting too much of what they wanted!!!

Last edited by DerAlte : 22nd April 2013 at 10:37.
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Old 22nd April 2013, 11:19   #2294
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Default re: ICE upgrade : Maruti Swift

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Originally Posted by DerAlte View Post
And the 'plugged holes' don't damp any sound!!! Sorry, but he doesn't seem to know much about damping, or he had pulled a fast one last time around.

Reduce volume, baba!

You need to get used to the sound signature, and that will take some time. I also have a feeling you are unable to accurately describe the sound.
- Which part of the music is sounding 'loud'?
- Is the 'loud' part drowning out any other part of music? If so, which?

First time I am hearing someone complaining about getting too much of what they wanted!!!
Well, I am not too sure about him pulling a fast one, however, whatever he did, it did make a small perceptible difference to the sound coming out of those doors. And this time the doors are taking a lot more beating with some poise, albeit with some rattling creeping in when some songs are being played. I am worried I will have to upgrade the car next.

For the loudness of the Hi-evergy drivers, let me take another shot at explaining the sound.
The electronic sounds of songs like 'Waves of Change' by Samantha James, 'Where have you been' by Rihanna are sounding crisp. Most of the bollywood numbers are sort of sounding muddled and harsh to the ears at medium volumes. The mid-bass is exactly how I wanted, however the vocals seem to have become harsh. On the equalizer, I have reduced the Mid frequencies to -4db, which has made the sound a little agreeable.

A couple of quick facts about the set-up:
1. One of the tweeters (model HT25) that came along with the speakers was not working fine, so both were replaced by separately available HT20 (Slightly smaller in size) of the same make. Could this be an issue? Even after much haggling he didn't bring down the price by a single penny (the pair cost me 16000).
2. The 2 channel amp (I already had this) running the speakers is 'Boston Mobile Audio - GTi 260', I could not find it on Google The installer said it could be fake but because of a good build quality gave it the benefit of doubt!
3. The other speaker which I seriously considered was Audison Voce, do you think it would have sounded better? I can still try and return this set for the Audisons (dearer by 2k).

And I am still unsure if the Amp and HU combo can make any difference to how the Hi energy speakers are sounding, if yes, what will be the extent of this difference?

Please help!

Last edited by Swiftoholic : 22nd April 2013 at 11:35.
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Old 22nd April 2013, 11:50   #2295
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Default re: ICE upgrade : Maruti Swift

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... albeit with some rattling creeping in when some songs are being played ...
Call it what you may, but one can't be appreciative of their abilities if rattles persist. Have the doorpad opened once again (you anyhow need to - see below) and all loose cables stayed with either hot-melt glue or double sided tape. Wrap some closed-cell foam around the long free runs of any cable / wire.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Swiftoholic View Post
... The electronic sounds of songs like 'Waves of Change' by Samantha James, 'Where have you been' by Rihanna are sounding crisp. Most of the bollywood numbers are sort of sounding muddled and harsh to the ears at medium volumes. The mid-bass is exactly how I wanted, however the vocals seem to have become harsh. On the equalizer, I have reduced the Mid frequencies to -4db, which has made the sound a little agreeable. ...
Oh-oh! You got carried away by the bass thump (probably as compared to what you had earlier) - and never noticed that these components are bright. And you probably paid twice that of similar components.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Swiftoholic View Post
... A couple of quick facts about the set-up:
1. One of the tweeters (model HT25) that came along with the speakers was not working fine, so both were replaced by separately available HT20 (Slightly smaller in size) of the same make. Could this be an issue? Even after much haggling he didn't bring down the price by a single penny (the pair cost me 16000). ...
This is just not done, and I have to repeat he is pulling a fast one. He is overcharging you (please check with other dealers in Delhi, like Driven), and on top of that he has given you mismatched tweeters.

Going for Audison is also not a solution unless you are *absolutely sure* you like it's sound. Also, he should come good on the existing deal by giving you a properly working set - not a mix-and-match "sir, this is also from Hertz" set. Otherwise, ask him to refund your money.

Forget about the amp - it is what it is. Perhaps you should set gain a bit lower and re-tune you system properly.
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