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Old 20th June 2007, 23:49   #691
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hi ICE gurus.
(sorry for a extra long post bare it and read it till the end )
after almost 2 months of research and suggestions..from u guys ,i finally got an ICE setup.installed for my swift Zxi & due to budget limitations had to go for a 2 channel amp instead of 4 channel..and i feel that this 2 channel amp is more than enough for me (too loud)..and thank you all for your suggestions in helping me get a decent setup.

the specs are as follows :
(if you need any more information or pics i will provide them )

Pioneer 6950IB
JBL GTO 607 comps. in the front door.
JBL GTO 937 ovals in the rear parcel shelf.
JBL SC 60.2 (2 channel amp.) (under the seat)

now the installation was done by a not so good but decent installer as there are not any professional car audio installers in navi mumbai..and i couldnt convince my dad to take the car to town side for the audio install as the owner of the shop in vashi had convinced my dad that he would do a decent install . so the day arrived and i went the installation had just started and it started raining heavily so i couldnt see much of the setup
finally when i went to test the ICE setup ..the GTO 937'S were kickass..really awesome ..while the Front compos were sounding like crap...i was shocked cause i always thought that the compos. were better than the ovals..in terms of SQ.
so i asked the installer about it and he told that by mistake he connected the two channel amp to the ovals instead of compos. and compos directly to HU ..i went mad and shouted him..then he called some other guy..who said he was more experienced in audio installation.and then inspite of me telling him to just connect the front compos to the amp..he connected all the four to the amp..saying that the JBL amp could take the load..
i dunno how he connected all the 4 to 2 channel amp..maybe he tripped them together or something..

but then he had convinced me that it will sound good...so in the end it was all done ...and i found that the SQ was ohk ohk ...and came back home...

but now i feel that there's still lots of tuning left and i can get a lot more out of this setup and the speakers can produce better sound with few adjustments.
first of all, is it advisable (ok) to connect all 4 speakers to the 2 channel amp.?
so i want to ask you all that weather its possible for me to do anything now to get better sound from it .??
without changing connections but will do that too if current connections are too bad and u say it can be done by me without any external help and u all can guide me if its easy ..


also i dont know much about setting the equalizer (which default to use /what are the 7 bands for )and all also the

subwoofer settings , the SW cut off , +3db on the GTO 937 ,high pass filter ,bass boost ,sorce level adjustment ,loudness (off-mid )..etc.

i mostly listen to normal bollywood\english hip hop mp3 songs at 192 or 302 kbps ...so please suggest me the correct values for each of audio settings\ accordingly ..

also ive found that or feel that at very low volumes like 3 -6 the rear ovals make a "zeeeeee zeeeee " kinda noise according to the accelerator (means as soon as my dad increases the power or accelerates i hear the noise which is in sync with the accelerator ) its not very noticeable at high volumes but a bit irritating when seated in the rear seats...
is this normal ?what is the cause ? can it be rectified ?

also ive found that the speakers are connected in a such a way that while using the fader in such a way that the sound from Front\rear\right\left are all mixed up and can not be configured correctly ...(will give the exact situations for F15/R15/L/15/R15 later on after checking again )
maybe this is due to all 4 speakers being connected to amp. and 2 speakers maybe combined or tripped together...

hope you all can hep me out with the long list of my noob questions and problems.

thanx in advance..and again sorry for a very long detailed post.
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Old 21st June 2007, 10:33   #692
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Originally Posted by Thad E Ginathom View Post
Any dealer recommendations for Chennai?
1. There is a thread about dealers and installers somewhere here, had seen some info about Chennai in there
2. PM @esteem_lover - he might be able to recommend some in Chennai
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Old 21st June 2007, 11:07   #693
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Originally Posted by faheem_m View Post
i feel that this 2 channel amp is more than enough for me (too loud)
"loudness" is under your control, Faheem-bhai. If the front and rear are tuned properly, you will not have this problem. A 4-channel would have been right, but with a 2-channel amp, you should connect the front speakers to the amp and the rear directly to the HU. Then you can change the gain of the amp till the front and rear sound the way you want it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by faheem_m View Post
first of all, is it advisable (ok) to connect all 4 speakers to the 2 channel amp.?
Yes and no. If some one increases the volume and plays for a long time, there is a possibility that the amp may cut-off (depends on the protection built-into the amp) or even blow (if there is no protection).
At lower volumes, what you will miss is a "sound stage" if the front and rear speakers are connected to a 2 channel amp. It will appear as if the singer is standing bang in the middle of the car, no matter what control you change in the HU. If connected separately, you will be able to control the front and rear separately (that's what the "Fader" control in the HU is for)

Quote:
Originally Posted by faheem_m View Post
also ive found that or feel that at very low volumes like 3 -6 the rear ovals make a "zeeeeee zeeeee " kinda noise according to the accelerator
Sounds like a "grounding" problem of the HU. You are not hearing it when you are playing at a louder volume, but quite likely it is always there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by faheem_m View Post
also ive found that the speakers are connected in a such a way that while using the fader in such a way that the sound from Front\rear\right\left are all mixed up and can not be configured correctly
If you have decent skills with a screw driver, you can figure that out. While playing some music, disconnect each speaker (only 1 wire is enough, careful not to short one terminal or wire to another) at the amp and check if the speaker that becomes silent corresponds to what is marked on the amp terminal (read the manual if you have a doubt). If everything is OK, then it is the "4 speakers to 2-channel amp" that is causing the problem!
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Old 21st June 2007, 11:19   #694
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Quote:
Originally Posted by faheem_m View Post
due to budget limitations had to go for a 2 channel amp instead of 4 channel..and i feel that this 2 channel amp is more than enough for me (too loud).
It's not about the volume, faheem baba, it is about the flexibility when you have 4 speakers, I will explain in a bit.

Quote:
the GTO 937'S were kickass..really awesome ..while the Front compos were sounding like crap..... he connected the two channel amp to the ovals instead of compos. and compos directly to HU
This is again to be expected. If you've connected a pair of 937's to a 2 channel amplifier, they will be slamming and loud. I suspect the gains on the amplifier are high too. It will make the 937 loud and clear. In comparison, esp if the amp gain is high, the comps won't even be heard.
Quote:
inspite of me telling him to just connect the front compos to the amp..he connected all the four to the amp..saying that the JBL amp could take the load..
i dunno how he connected all the 4 to 2 channel amp..maybe he tripped them together or something..first of all, is it advisable (ok) to connect all 4 speakers to the 2 channel amp.?
It's not completely terrible to connect all 4 speakers to 2 chanels, sometimes it is done. Is it recommended, not entirely, but can be done, often without complications. Of course the same HPF settings then apply to both the front and the rear and you can forget about the fader and yes, at high, prolonged volumes, your amplifier will get very hot and may shut down for a while (beacuse of the added load, remember the GTO7 series are not 4 ohm speakers)

Quote:
[/b]
also i dont know much about setting the equalizer (which default to use /what are the 7 bands for )and all also the

subwoofer settings , the SW cut off , +3db on the GTO 937 ,high pass filter ,bass boost ,sorce level adjustment ,loudness (off-mid )..etc.
Use as little boost as possible. everything should be either zero, or max 1 or 2. Bass treble etc, keep it closer to zero. If I was you, I'd keep the switch on 0, but if you like more trebele then leave it on +3.


Quote:
also ive found that or feel that at very low volumes like 3 -6 the rear ovals make a "zeeeeee zeeeee " kinda noise according to the accelerator (means as soon as my dad increases the power or accelerates i hear the noise which is in sync with the accelerator ) its not very noticeable at high volumes but a bit irritating when seated in the rear seats...
is this normal ?what is the cause ? can it be rectified ?
You can do 2 things. Change the RCA cable from your HU to your amp, I suspect it's a crap quality one. The other is lower the gain slightly from the amplifier. Your problem will be solved.
Quote:
also ive found that the speakers are connected in a such a way that while using the fader in such a way that the sound from Front\rear\right\left are all mixed up and can not be configured correctly
The fader cannot work, as you are using a 2 channel amplifier with 4 speakers on it. But the balance should work pefectly.
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Old 21st June 2007, 11:19   #695
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thanx DerAlte any more suggestions ..and what about the
subwoofer settings , the SW cut off , +3db on the GTO 937 ,high pass filter ,bass boost ,sorce level adjustment ,loudness (off-mid )..etc.and all ..i need to know about them too..

but i dont think i will be able to open up things like HU and all or move the seats and check the amp connections and all ( if anything goes wrong dad will hang me LOLZ) though i have decent skills and knowledge of electronics .do u all think it is easy and can be done by myself. .? or it very risky and there are chances of blowing up amp and all ??
also how are the connections to the amp \head unit and speakers made means...are there simple connectors(like pc speakers) or i need to do the cutting and all..??
and if i really want to connect just the compos to the amp and rear directly to head unit ? will i need extra cable ?? will a lot of cutting and all be involved...

actually i am asking all these questions cause i dont have much idea about the connections as i was not there at the time of the installation of speakers can some one give me a brief idea of the connections ..
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Old 21st June 2007, 11:31   #696
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Originally Posted by Sam Kapasi View Post
It's not about the volume, faheem baba, it is about the flexibility when you have 4 speakers, I will explain in a bit.


This is again to be expected. If you've connected a pair of 937's to a 2 channel amplifier, they will be slamming and loud. I suspect the gains on the amplifier are high too. It will make the 937 loud and clear. In comparison, esp if the amp gain is high, the comps won't even be heard.

You can do 2 things. Change the RCA cable from your HU to your amp, I suspect it's a crap quality one. The other is lower the gain slightly from the amplifier. Your problem will be solved.
yeah exactly that's what is happening the 937 rear produce more sound then the components and i am unable to hear the compo. sound much
..so how do i lower the gains from the amplifier .can it be done by just moving the seat and changing some settings on the amp.(sorry me really a noob at all this)...

(feel like waste of 607c stupid me should have connected the 937's directly i am repenting now..)


Quote:
The fader cannot work, as you are using a 2 channel amplifier with 4 speakers on it. But the balance should work perfectly.
whats the difference between the fader and balance ? ...arent both the same ?


one more thing , SAM this is kinda OT but was very curious to ask u this...are u the one who was there at the speed performance show at bandra kurla complex with the awesome setup of JBL speakers.on the that porsche cadillac ? cause i had done a full video shoot at the show..and i can remember the person(if it is you) are also there in that..eh he he...
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Old 21st June 2007, 11:42   #697
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Nice job "Old Man". Ha it feels good to say that to someone other than Rudra.
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Old 21st June 2007, 17:17   #698
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Thanks swiftcrazy. Did you get your car :-)? I am sure you must be loving it as much as I am ... Swift is a neat car.
Time moves very slowly when you are waiting for a car :(

It will be at least two months before i see my car...

But as the saying goes "Good things come to those who wait"

Regards
SC
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Old 21st June 2007, 22:58   #699
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can some one please reply to my queries in post no. 697 and 696 ..
Sam ??.
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Old 22nd June 2007, 08:45   #700
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Hi Guys,

I am a newbie to this forum. Following it from last couple of days and its my first post. I recently purchased Swift Vxi and can't wait to get it ICED. But am all confused. First i am confused about which HU to go for - Pioneer or Clarion? Second I dont want to loose my boot space. Looking for an immediate help from the experts here. Any good setup suggestions which produce a good result under this constraint and is a VFM. Thanks.
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Old 22nd June 2007, 12:05   #701
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Originally Posted by faheem_m View Post
can some one please reply to my queries in post no. 697 and 696 ..
Sam ??.
If your rears are more pronounced its simply due to your fader settings. Please ensure that Fader is set to atleast F10 or F12 ( assuming you have a pio HU) if its set to 0, then rear takes up the prominent set-up. Balance is to move the sound from right to left.

If it still does not sound right then you need to check the gains on the amp and tune it accordingly.
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Old 22nd June 2007, 12:30   #702
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If your rears are more pronounced its simply due to your fader settings. Please ensure that Fader is set to atleast F10 or F12 ( assuming you have a pio HU) if its set to 0, then rear takes up the prominent set-up. Balance is to move the sound from right to left.

If it still does not sound right then you need to check the gains on the amp and tune it accordingly.
there are many other things i need to know..guess u didnt read the complete posts..specially checking the gains and tuning it again ..how do i do it ?
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Old 22nd June 2007, 12:57   #703
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set amp gains to about 60-70%. say 1 oclock or 2 oclock position. and start from there.
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Old 22nd June 2007, 13:43   #704
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Originally Posted by faheem_m View Post
how do i lower the gains from the amplifier .can it be done by just moving the seat and changing some settings on the ampwhats the difference between the fader and balance ? ...arent both the same ?
Here amigo, look at this.



Do you see "input level" there? You need to turn it counter-clockwise a little bit.

Quote:
one more thing , SAM this is kinda OT but was very curious to ask u this...are u the one who was there at the speed performance show.
Probably yes I'm easy to spot.
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Old 22nd June 2007, 16:54   #705
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Originally Posted by Sach007 View Post
Hi Guys,

I am a newbie to this forum. Following it from last couple of days and its my first post. I recently purchased Swift Vxi and can't wait to get it ICED. But am all confused. First i am confused about which HU to go for - Pioneer or Clarion? Second I dont want to loose my boot space. Looking for an immediate help from the experts here. Any good setup suggestions which produce a good result under this constraint and is a VFM. Thanks.

Hi Sachin,

I suggest that you start your journey from deciding what your budget is...
You can get advice here for budgets ranginf from 5K to 500K

Once you have decided your budget, I recommend that you to go and take a look at the thread by navin titled " basic ICE - systems at various budgets -10K, 15K, 20K, 25K & 30K" in the [COLOR=#800080]Team-BHP[/COLOR] > [COLOR=#0000ff]Under the hood[/COLOR] > [COLOR=#0000ff]In-Car Entertainment[/COLOR] > [COLOR=#800080]Ask the Gurus[/COLOR] section


If you have already done this then....

Give us a idea about what you are planning to have in your setup in terms of the speakers, woofers,amps (along with the brands & models if possible).

In short... give us data and help us help you
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